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originally posted by: QuietSpeech
a reply to: SensiblyReckless
I see where you are coming from, and I agree with your line of reasoning. However I am willing to guess that most people have never heard of dimethyltryptamine, much less that it is a natural substance that our bodies create and if theory is correct, released in massive amounts upon death potentially being the reason that people "see things". You can go one of two possible routes, this substance is making people hallucinate, or this substance helps us break past the barrier of what we normally percieve. After much research, I tend to believe in the latter and that it ties somehow into spirituality.
originally posted by: Hohuwah
I think this is due to one, or both, of two things; the pineal gland releases '___' near death and the beliefs and thoughts of people have a huge influence on guiding our experiences. I personally believe in a holographic/malleable metaphysical view, though I won't go into that here. Such a view does offer alternative explanations for this phenomena. Most relevant, I think though, is that there are a vast number of '___' experiences which are identical to NDE's. If one has certain religious or other beliefs about the afterlife, this will surely guide the experience brought on by '___'. Although such beliefs are not necessary for the experience, as they have been heavily ingrained into our consenus reality for thousands of years. As well, the concept of seeing loved ones again before dying greatly alleviates the fear and stress that death brings. Therefore, I think it is highly likely that this phenomena, while appearing to be overtly mystical and spiritual, is merely how we assist ourselves with approaching death. This in no way takes away from the importance or helpfulness of this phenomenon, and it does not mean the phenomenon doesn't have metaphysical or mystical implications. This could very well be a precursor to, or evidence of, the breaching of another dimension/realm upon death. It is possible, I think, that our consciousness becomes more simple and pure after the body dies. The initial revelation of this may come in the form of witnessing the physical representations of others we knew that moved on. However, I merely wanted to note the importance of the use of entheogens and hallucinogenic experiences to develop and progress consciousness, as well as ease suffering. I think it is quite possible that reflective, self-aware consciousness is a direct result of hallucinogenic experiences. This is another theory I won't digress into right now. I just wanted to make it clear I am not being a physicalist/materialist or attempting to discount the phenomenon or its impact. Edit: it appears that everytime I mention Dimethyltryptemime, D.M.T., it has been censored. Just so everyone kniws that what is where all the "___" are.
originally posted by: pl3bscheese
Well then, let's see if someone can inject rational thought into this thread. I'll take a stab at it.
People are dying. How the hell would they not be thinking about people who had died in their lives? Maybe the are consciously aware they are dying, maybe not, it's irrelevant, the subconscious knows, and is bringing things to mind in relation to this awareness.
Do we really need more explanation than this?
I have my own experience. The evening my little brother died I became very sad, couldn't point to the reason. Started balling in public... yea that had never happened before... I felt someone close was about to pass, and figured it was my father. At about the point my brother died during the night, I lost control of my body, fell, and hit my head on a counter. Pretty deep gash.
In the morning, the apartment manager came and told me I had to see my family who was waiting for me. I knew someone had died. Still didn't prepare me when I found out it was my little brother.
After saying all of this, there's not a chance in hell someone can convince me this is anything more than the power of the subconscious processing in ways we can't yet explain. There is so much more information relayed through individuals and things that we can't consciously process. I see no good reason to attach nonsensical beliefs, when merely exclaiming, "we don't know" is good enough.
originally posted by: pl3bscheese
a reply to: TheIceQueen
All you're doing is making assertions without anything to back up. It's circular, yet you're framing it as if to be logical. It's not. You can state something, but the statement can't be used as proof of logical reasoning. Sorry.
None of what I say backs up your beliefs. What you're saying is that your bias is thick, and you see reinforcements where they are not. I know better than to debate with someone who employs circular reasoning. Good luck trapping others with that. I'm sure it serves you well on this forum.