So who SHOULD deal with daesh/isis/isil?

Having gone through the same emotions as probably most human beings in relation to the rise of the abomination known as Isis ie: disbelief, outrage, disgust, desire for revenge and finally, to my belief, understanding, I have been thinking about the possible solution to this abhorrence.

There are basically three points of view that I can see.

1. Let the west destroy them and hope that ends it.
2. Let the whole world destroy them and hope that ends it.
3. Let Islamic countries destroy them and hope that ends it.

My opinion?

I believe, after much thought on the issue that the ONLY positive outcome would be acheived if the ISLAMIC nations took it upon themselves to rid the planet of this abomination.
That is NOT to say that we sit idly by in the rest of the world, twiddling our fingers, no, no and thrice no!

1. DEMAND that Islamic nations cleanse the world of Isis with our (by our i mean the rest of the world) FULL SUPPORT both militarily and politically.
2. CREATE transnational laws that punish the promotion, aid, harbouring or any other logistical support for isis with extremely harsh measures, once proved of course.
3. Make the punishment fit the crime. For example, if a person is found irrefutably guilt of aiding Isis, or for that matter, any other fundamentalist religious group whose goal it is is to impose their religion by punishment of death on any other nation or religious group, then that person shall be transported to the homeland for which they are fighting and left there irrespective of that country's immigration laws.
4. I hesitate to say this but I would also possibly think about punishing the family, just so the criminal understands the idea of consequences.

I am not a politician, perhaps some might say thank heaven for that, but this is my opinion.
Please feel free to add to this debate, after all, it's been going through most people's minds for a while, has it not?

No one will do anything until there is something to gain from it. Jordan "may" and I do stress may step up but honestly it would not surprise me if they do nothing apart from maybe execute the prisoners they have as a act against the murder of there pilot.

Until I really understand what their end game is I am not sure anyone will step in and then you need to ask WHY is no one stepping in??.. If they where just targeting western interests I could understand but they seem to kill everything that is not flying the black flag..

I know the MSM will say they want a worldwide Caliphate blah blah but lets be realistic that is not going to happen (hope I do not Regret that) and if that is there over riding goal they definitely shoot for the stars.

I am still surprised or maybe not so much that Israel has not copped a load.

RA

originally posted by: slider1982

I am still surprised or maybe not so much that Israel has not copped a load.

RA

That puzzles me! You'd think ISIS would attack Israel on a daily basis, but nothing, yet threats by IS to invade Rome and the Vatican, to behead Obama in the Whitehouse and even raise the IS flag over Downing St, but nothing about Israel!

Makes one wonder if Massod are handlers?

a reply to: slider1982
I personally believe that their end game is to create such polarity on the world stage as to basically force people to choose between Islam or non-islam. By getting only non-muslim, or even western sympathetic countries involved in the fight they hope to unite Islam under the flag of Isis. I believe they will fail, as they seem not to realise that their actions are as despicable to Muslims as they are to everyone else.

a reply to: Jonjonj

A bullet or bomb cannot kill an idea - it is almost guaranteed to solidify that idea.......ultimately at a fundamental level, ISIS is an idea made manifest. Just like Israel is an idea made manifest (thanks to Zionism)

For instance, at their height, the IRA were a force to be reckoned with and only after years and years of death was it all put to an end by their own political wing negotiating with their sworn enemies.

The door swings both ways, just as ISIS beheads and burns, so have "others" done heinous crimes of EQUAL MEASURE.

1. DEMAND that WESTERN nations cleanse the world of ISRAEL with our (by our i mean the rest of the world) FULL SUPPORT both militarily and politically.
2. CREATE transnational laws that punish the promotion, aid, harbouring or any other logistical support for ISRAEL with extremely harsh measures, once proved of course.
3. Make the punishment fit the crime. For example, if a person is found irrefutably guilt of aiding ZIONISM, or for that matter, any other fundamentalist religious group / PHILOSOPHY whose goal it is is to impose their religion by punishment of death on any other nation or religious group, then that person shall be transported to the homeland for which they are fighting and left there irrespective of that country's immigration laws.
4. I hesitate to say this but I would also possibly think about punishing the family, just so the criminal understands the idea of consequences.............JUST LIKE WHAT ISRAEL DOES TO THE FAMILIES OF SUICIDE BOMBERS

Daesh exists only to keep Western defense spending increasing annually and to use the fear to justfy boots on the ground in the last few holdouts. Notice it popped up at a time where most people did not care or fear the name al-qaeda any longer. Daesh's influence will wane by 2020 and there will be a new name for the citizens of the western empire to fear to justify more increased defense spending and land occupations for resource control.

War has never, is not currently, nor ever will be about ideology. it has been, is now, and will always be about resource grabbing and control of taxable land. The best way to fight Daesh is to stop funding the current power structures in the Western empire which fuel and create these organizations. In the US we have to stop voting for the uni-party candidates (blue/red). In Europe they have to abolish their Monarchies. Europe media greatest trickery was convincing their citizens that the richest families in their respective countries who have maintained generations of control of that land and the people within it suddenly have little to no influence in the domestic and foreign policy decisions of their government.

Believing that the Royals of Europe have very little sway in their governments policy decisions is the same as voting Democrat or Republican in the states.

The only real solution at this point is for everyone to vote against action and simply allow this event to run its course. Stop their citizens from flying to the two main countries involved, and detain them from re-entry if it was determined they entered through a third party country. That would prevent the legitimate jerk offs from creating panic and terror when returning home. Of course it never really stops false flags.

The west going alone is a bad idea. It's the kind of stuff that would help spread their radical ideology, and inspire more attacks on the west and western interests.

It must be a global coalition, with Muslim nations and armies leading the way.

Land sea and air... No safe place anywhere on the planet for ISIS. until they are no more, no matter what it takes, or for how long.

All or nothing.

a reply to: Jonjonj

I think the main problem with expecting the majority Muslim nations to deal with the threat are as follows. First of all, you have the fact that one of them, Iraq, was equipped and trained to deal with securing itself after the conflicts there, and when IS were just a mob driving modified pickups, the Iraqi military folded up like an origami deck chair in a force nine gale. Now IS have all the gear they captured from the Iraqi positions which were deserted by the troops, leaving behind armoured vehicles with mounted weapons, artillery pieces, and other wartech.

Every time IS rolls over an area, it takes the resources left by the defeated force which previously occupied the area, and adds them to its inventory, which means that every victory for them increases not just their spread of their far right religious ideology, but also increases the amount of equipment they can field in their next campaign.

Second, you have the fact that some of the nations we are expecting to deal with this threat, are in fact harbouring people who fund and advocate on behalf of IS, despite their horrid excesses. The likelihood therefore, of those nations becoming instrumental in the deconstruction of IS by military means, is fairly damned slim.

Third, with so much of the Middle East being in a cluster copulation of its own right now, it is hardly surprising that the response to IS by local forces has been somewhat lacking in gumption. You have Syria in the midst of a basically three way fight, government versus various squabbling revolutionary factions versus IS, a veritable death match of epic scale. That is just one example! Many of the other middle eastern nations are still wondering at the meaning of the Arab Spring, and so unified action is even less likely, as positions are still being tested, political fortifications still being created to strengthen governments which took a pasting in popular opinion over the last five years....

This is not a situation which lends itself very well to being self resolving in the manner you advocate for. That said, it is the best way forward, that nations closest to the problems be the ones to hammer down the solutions.

originally posted by: Jonjonj

There are basically three points of view that I can see.

1. Let the west destroy them and hope that ends it.

But the west supported the destabilising of Syria which created Isis. It don't make sense

I suggest you use this post to create your own thread as it seems not to relate to this topic per se. However, I would suggest that you use your own rationale about bombs not killing ideas when you create said thread.

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: Jonjonj

A bullet or bomb cannot kill an idea - it is almost guaranteed to solidify that idea.......ultimately at a fundamental level, ISIS is an idea made manifest. Just like Israel is an idea made manifest (thanks to Zionism)

For instance, at their height, the IRA were a force to be reckoned with and only after years and years of death was it all put to an end by their own political wing negotiating with their sworn enemies.

The door swings both ways, just as ISIS beheads and burns, so have "others" done heinous crimes of EQUAL MEASURE.

1. DEMAND that WESTERN nations cleanse the world of ISRAEL with our (by our i mean the rest of the world) FULL SUPPORT both militarily and politically.
2. CREATE transnational laws that punish the promotion, aid, harbouring or any other logistical support for ISRAEL with extremely harsh measures, once proved of course.
3. Make the punishment fit the crime. For example, if a person is found irrefutably guilt of aiding ZIONISM, or for that matter, any other fundamentalist religious group / PHILOSOPHY whose goal it is is to impose their religion by punishment of death on any other nation or religious group, then that person shall be transported to the homeland for which they are fighting and left there irrespective of that country's immigration laws.
4. I hesitate to say this but I would also possibly think about punishing the family, just so the criminal understands the idea of consequences.............JUST LIKE WHAT ISRAEL DOES TO THE FAMILIES OF SUICIDE BOMBERS

a reply to: Jonjonj

The sad thing is I get the feeling that secretly many "main stream" muslim actually turn their head to the actions of Isis (NOT ALL I WILL ADMIT). I live in a part of London that is very culturally biased towards the Muslim faith and I can say that I do not see any outpouring of outrage to these acts. Infact its more along the lines of you reap what you sow.

Myself as someone without faith I find it hard that someone can do such things just due to a belief system and the thought that my mind would be changed to join there cult through what they are doing is laughable at best.

I will file this episode of human kind under another mis understanding that one group of people tried to convince another group of people that their beliefs where right and everyone else is wrong.. I have about 15 other examples all along the same lines of thought and all ended more or less a the same.. History does repeat itself..

RA

Then perhaps what I am advocating is a resolution. Do what has to be done, or be punished. I understand the lack of political will, I do NOT however believe that it is the way to deal with the issue. Let's say that I believe that before we can resolve this, the wheat must be separated from the chaff?

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Jonjonj

I think the main problem with expecting the majority Muslim nations to deal with the threat are as follows. First of all, you have the fact that one of them, Iraq, was equipped and trained to deal with securing itself after the conflicts there, and when IS were just a mob driving modified pickups, the Iraqi military folded up like an origami deck chair in a force nine gale. Now IS have all the gear they captured from the Iraqi positions which were deserted by the troops, leaving behind armoured vehicles with mounted weapons, artillery pieces, and other wartech.

Every time IS rolls over an area, it takes the resources left by the defeated force which previously occupied the area, and adds them to its inventory, which means that every victory for them increases not just their spread of their far right religious ideology, but also increases the amount of equipment they can field in their next campaign.

Second, you have the fact that some of the nations we are expecting to deal with this threat, are in fact harbouring people who fund and advocate on behalf of IS, despite their horrid excesses. The likelihood therefore, of those nations becoming instrumental in the deconstruction of IS by military means, is fairly damned slim.

Third, with so much of the Middle East being in a cluster copulation of its own right now, it is hardly surprising that the response to IS by local forces has been somewhat lacking in gumption. You have Syria in the midst of a basically three way fight, government versus various squabbling revolutionary factions versus IS, a veritable death match of epic scale. That is just one example! Many of the other middle eastern nations are still wondering at the meaning of the Arab Spring, and so unified action is even less likely, as positions are still being tested, political fortifications still being created to strengthen governments which took a pasting in popular opinion over the last five years....

This is not a situation which lends itself very well to being self resolving in the manner you advocate for. That said, it is the best way forward, that nations closest to the problems be the ones to hammer down the solutions.

a reply to: slider1982

I went through the phase of believing the same thing, Muslims turning their heads. However, at some point I came to the conclusion that this is simply impossible. Have fundamentalists kidnapped Muslims and held them in a grip of fear so strong that they fear speaking out? Possibly that is the case. I can not believe though that any person with any humanity in the 21st century is able to condone these actions.

ISIS/ISIL/new marketing name is just that, rebranded AL-CIA-DA.

Based on General Wesley Clark's warning this is the method they
decided to use to justify US intervention in several nations.

former 5 star general says mid east take over preplanned

We also have members of the military saying they don't want to
be AL-CIA-DA's Air Force.

US armed forces protesting resupply for ISIS/Al-qaeda

So what we have here is basically mecenaries similar to those we saw speaking
very clear english in Ukraine.

What we have here is a shadow war of aggression, not defense.

When most of the world figures it out, the US may find itself viewed
much like NAZI Germany.

I used to come on here and warn of this but did not have mainstream
evidence til recently.

There were others however who pointed out this was going on in the
past, but were considered nutjobs, such as John Perkins,
major general butler, ron paul, and others.

Pat Tillman planned to tell Noam Chomsky, but he was shot in the head
at point blank range by a US rifle, and his clothes were burned by
US forces to hide evidence, and then his mother was denied his diary.

So with all that on the table, its pretty clear the insane are running the Asylum.

Plan accordingly, the cities will not be safe when a mix of civil war2, and ww3
goes full tilt. A expedient fallout shelter as described on nuclear war survival
skills website would be a good idea too. It needs to be away from the cities
because some people will not play nice if you have food and their kids are
starving.

Good Luck to all the good people of the world, you are going to need it...

a reply to: Jonjonj

My apologies - I was using an analogy to answer your question and it certainly was not my intent to derail or veer off topic.

IMO, only ISIS can destroy ISIS (hence my reference to IRA deconstruction).

Islamic nations are not responsible to address this, just as the entire catholic church was not responsible for IRA.

In regards to the italicized component of my post, it was merely to demonstrate that your philosophy is equally valid when you substitute ISIS for Israel.........and I used Israel here to point out that they have the most the loose but appear the least concerned about ISIS - and I find that to be the elephant in the room.

Again, no disrespect intended towards your OP my friend.

sigh, I suppose Tim Lahaye and Jerry Jenkins have succeeded in making their propaganda piece the subliminal nod for the Western World to accept the reality it ushered in. Left Behind reads as a blueprint of everything that has happened from 2000 up until this point. I am not referring to the biblical events at all, but the geo political events that unfold within the storyline of the full narrative. You wont really know what I am talking about unless you read the story and look at it for what it is, a social engineering project that has unfolded as reality in today's world. The Christian west wont see it because the factions in the book and those being persecuted are in reverse of what is going on today. It was written that way exactly for this very purpose.

That also means unfortunately that this world is indeed in fact due for a major conflict the likes of a real full on world war within the decade.

I still believe the best way to deal with Daesh is to ignore it, stop funding it, stop training their soldiers, and allow the region to handle this mess of their own accord.The people Mesopotamia has basically been the victim of one foreign Empire or another for the last thousand years at least. If we can call our empires off maybe the people within can figure out their own solutions. Israel will not exist as it does today into the next century anyways so I could care less.

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: Jonjonj

A bullet or bomb cannot kill an idea - it is almost guaranteed to solidify that idea.......ultimately at a fundamental level, ISIS is an idea made manifest. Just like Israel is an idea made manifest (thanks to Zionism)

For instance, at their height, the IRA were a force to be reckoned with and only after years and years of death was it all put to an end by their own political wing negotiating with their sworn enemies.

The door swings both ways, just as ISIS beheads and burns, so have "others" done heinous crimes of EQUAL MEASURE.

1. DEMAND that WESTERN nations cleanse the world of ISRAEL with our (by our i mean the rest of the world) FULL SUPPORT both militarily and politically.
2. CREATE transnational laws that punish the promotion, aid, harbouring or any other logistical support for ISRAEL with extremely harsh measures, once proved of course.
3. Make the punishment fit the crime. For example, if a person is found irrefutably guilt of aiding ZIONISM, or for that matter, any other fundamentalist religious group / PHILOSOPHY whose goal it is is to impose their religion by punishment of death on any other nation or religious group, then that person shall be transported to the homeland for which they are fighting and left there irrespective of that country's immigration laws.
4. I hesitate to say this but I would also possibly think about punishing the family, just so the criminal understands the idea of consequences.............JUST LIKE WHAT ISRAEL DOES TO THE FAMILIES OF SUICIDE BOMBERS

I support Isreal and their fight against those that would attempt to harm them. Oddly Im a American, Christian and I guess I just like the fact they are the under dog.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

Would I not be right in thinking with the IRA their main objective was for a unified Ireland taking Northern Island away from mainland british control?.

Isis never had a homeland as such and the notion with me at least is that they are fighting for a belief system that has no hard rock of a country or nation that they fighting for, to be honest it would make it far more easier to understand there motive if that was the case as you could at least "see" what they where fighting for..

RA..

a reply to: Sublimecraft
No offense taken sir. I also agree in part with the idea that only Isis can destroy Isis, if only because of the observation that they are actually alienating everybody except the most extreme. However, I completely disagree with the IRA analogy on a question of scale. I am sure you understand what I mean by that. The idea behind the thread really was 'what can we effectively do to stop the madness in this case'
I would also like to add that yes, Islamic countries are NOT responsible for this, however are they not the ONLY ones who could bring this to an end WITHOUT increasing the problem?
I mean think, in what POSSIBLE way can non-muslim intervention in this situation fail to create adversion towards non-muslim countries?

I think a majority of muslims either openly or secretly support what ISIS is doing! Though a majority may not be taking part in the acts of barbarism I dare say the other are complicate in their lack of ridicule or denouncement of ISIS's stategies!

The American government under Obama will do nothing but fling a few bombs and engage in the rhetorical double talk. On top of this even a major attack to the American homeland would not turn into an American attack on ISIS. With no AMerican boots on the ground no other nation will truly add their support and with no boots on the ground their will be no tranfer of Real Estate and all that come with that.

Basically ISIS will grow, take more land, embolden radical muslims world wide, and it will take hundreds of thousands of innocent lost lifes to extinguish them from existence!