It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

1500 Year Old Bible Found, nobody want's to know - Could be real deal

page: 8
65
<< 5  6  7    9  10  11 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 4 2015 @ 03:16 AM
link   

originally posted by: ccseagull
a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

This world is full of ugliness, destruction, evil acts. God is allowing Satan to do his thing.

There you go with those claims of fact again. To remind you, facts are based on testable evidence only.

As for your comment about leprechauns, I think they're probably a little more likely. Certainly, they're more friendly.




posted on Feb, 4 2015 @ 03:20 AM
link   

originally posted by: dr1234
In a general message to everyone here I would recommendation the book "Misqouting Jesus" by Bart D. Ehrman. It is clear lot of people take have misinformed veiws on the subject of how the bible became the thing it is today.


Bart Ehrman has clearly stated that there is not an iota of contemporaneous documentation proving that Jesus ever existed. Of course, that hasn't stopped him from making a career out of selling books about Jesus. That's probably because his target audience ignores this huge admission on his part and dives into the much larger fantasy portion like Super Bowl fans diving into nachos.



posted on Feb, 4 2015 @ 03:21 AM
link   

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Perhaps Rome considered his teaching a threat, so they expunged the records..

Since it was around 300 years later that Rome began adopting Christianity.


Perhaps Rome considered Zeus a threat and expunged all the records proving that he actually existed, too.



posted on Feb, 4 2015 @ 03:30 AM
link   

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: chr0naut

Gnosticism predates the Crucifixion my friend...

And Jesus' in general... Christian Gnosticism came from his time though

Obviously....


I would only agree with that if it were supportable by an ancient text.

Name one pre-Christian Gnostic text.


That is a tough one unfortunately...

See most people believe Gnosticism was a religion like Christianity or Judaism, but that's not actually true... Gnostic's were basically unknown writers or writers that didn't get the publicity or attention of the church until their ideas became a threat... Gnostic writers borrow many of their ideas from Platonism and early greek mythology...

there just isn't any texts from the first century or before that time... at least from what has been found, but the same holds true with the New testament as well... Theres just nothing but copies of copies...

Perhaps this might be an example...

www.gnosis.org...

Gnostic writers were called that because of their stressing the idea that the "gnosis" (knowledge) was necessary to attain salvation... it wasn't that they considered themselves "gnostic".... In fact the term was only used by the opponents of these people's beliefs

So... gnostic beliefs were actually born from Plato, and early greek mythology...things like the "demiurge" and the archons or the hypostasis of the world were all borrowed... When Jesus arrived on the scene variations of his teachings were mixed into what would become Christian Gnosticism...

which still wasn't a religion... it was just another version of Christianity with roots stemming from earlier belief systems




edit on 4-2-2015 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 4 2015 @ 03:33 AM
link   
a reply to: Tangerine


Bart Ehrman has clearly stated that there is not an iota of contemporaneous documentation proving that Jesus ever existed.



And yet he firmly beliefs Jesus was an historical person...

You should try reading his books instead of just repeating yourself in every religious post you make...

Really... quit saying "contemporaneous documentation"...

its getting old, we all get it... you don't believe he existed

Change the frickin record...


edit on 4-2-2015 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 4 2015 @ 03:39 AM
link   

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Tangerine


Bart Ehrman has clearly stated that there is not an iota of contemporaneous documentation proving that Jesus ever existed.



And yet he firmly beliefs Jesus was an historical person...

You should try reading his books instead of just repeating yourself in every religious post you make...

Really... quit saying "contemporaneous documentation"...

its getting old, we all get it... you don't believe he existed

Change the frickin record...



What makes you think I haven't read Bart Ehrman? How do you think I know he admitted that there's not an iota of contemporaneous documentation proving that Jesus actually existed? Sure he believes Jesus lived (or, more correctly, maybe he believes it. After all he makes most of his living selling books about jesus). So what? It's a freaking belief. It's wishful thinking. I wish the Shire existed.
edit on 4-2-2015 by Tangerine because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 4 2015 @ 03:54 AM
link   
a reply to: Tangerine

I am not making statements of fact.. You are, I would say any proof must come from you.

Keep in mind I have little use for organized religion, most would say I am a heretic and I am going to h@ll.



posted on Feb, 4 2015 @ 03:57 AM
link   
a reply to: Tangerine

Well IF you have read his books you seem to completely ignore the fact that Dr. Ehrman believes without any doubt that he was a real person... that means he believes Jesus Existed

Yes there is no "contemporaneous documentation" as you continuously state over and over and over and over and over and over again..... but to a trained historian that doesn't always matter...

To quote Dr.Ehrman... IF Jesus didn't exist, his brother would probably know about it!

And by the way, i wish the shire existed too... but that is fiction...

now don't get me wrong there is probably some fiction within the bible as well... such as adam and eve... the flood... Sodom and lots wife turning to salt... etc etc etc

regardless the fact remains, Jesus has always been considered a person that existed in history... at the very least... Even if you don't believe it...

AND

People don't die for imaginary persons and what they taught... ever


edit on 4-2-2015 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 4 2015 @ 04:08 AM
link   
a reply to: lost in space




One of the things that make me doubt any of it is the same ones who want to hold sway over the common men are the ones who put this amazing book together. Pedophiles, manipulators, and liars. I personally think organized religion might have been an invention of the Devil.


I starred you however be careful that you dont exclude other institutions that hide and perpetuate pedophilia. Foster care institutions, psychiatric institutions etc. Pedophila thrives in institutions that exert total control over beleif systems, over freedom of forced medication or forced political brainwashing. There is also plenty evidence out there about Hollywoods "sins" However having said that - Centralized institutional religions will never be dismantled any time soon. They enjoy shared power and wealth status with Monarchies Republics and Socialist States.

Thats not to say that the local archdiocese/chapter/temple of any particular faith necessarily practices or condones such behaviour.

I dont believe in god, I have god, I gnosis a Supreme creator, the kingdom within



posted on Feb, 4 2015 @ 04:18 AM
link   
a reply to: DeadSeraph





So basically you have nothing relevant to add to the conversation? Just "#*!$ Christianity"?



I was attempting for clarification...however i was a bit snarky I must admit.
I think this later in his same post is what triggered me



Satan is busy copying God in his every moments and why wouldn't he twist the words of God by having someone mess with the Bible. What a great way to create doubt and division in believers and show non believers that the Bible is nothing but messed up stories. What a great way for Satan


By inference anyone who questions is a follower of said "satan"
But hey...I think you knew that...I dont need to "#*!$



posted on Feb, 4 2015 @ 04:21 AM
link   

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Tangerine

Well IF you have read his books you seem to completely ignore the fact that Dr. Ehrman believes without any doubt that he was a real person... that means he believes Jesus Existed

Yes there is no "contemporaneous documentation" as you continuously state over and over and over and over and over and over again..... but to a trained historian that doesn't always matter...

To quote Dr.Ehrman... IF Jesus didn't exist, his brother would probably know about it!

And by the way, i wish the shire existed too... but that is fiction...

now don't get me wrong there is probably some fiction within the bible as well... such as adam and eve... the flood... Sodom and lots wife turning to salt... etc etc etc

regardless the fact remains, Jesus has always been considered a person that existed in history... at the very least... Even if you don't believe it...

AND

People don't die for imaginary persons and what they taught... ever



You seem to confuse belief with fact. Just because Ehrman claims to believe that Jesus actually lived does not make it fact. Even if YOU believe it, that doesn't make it fact. Ehrman does things like say, "If Jesus didn't exist, his brother would probably know about it!" without reminding you that the brother of Jesus, if he ever lived, never documented the existence of Jesus! Ehrman is essentially a clever weasel.

No, Jesus has not always been considered a person who existed in history. Apparently, the people who lived when he allegedly lived never noticed him. In fact, no one even mentioned him until two generations after he allegedly lived. A number of scholars and historians have stated that there's no evidence for the existence of Jesus but they've been drowned out by those who wanted to not rock the boat and risk their jobs. Until very recently (and in some places even now), one's job would have been in jeopardy for daring to say Jesus never lived or even questioning it. There was a time when losing one's job would have been the least thing to worry about: losing one's life would have been the penalty.

Like hell people don't die for imaginary persons. People killed each other over imaginary gods. In fact, plenty of people have been killed over fabrications of one sort or another. I call your attention to the imaginary WMDs in Iraq.



posted on Feb, 4 2015 @ 04:23 AM
link   

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: lost in space




One of the things that make me doubt any of it is the same ones who want to hold sway over the common men are the ones who put this amazing book together. Pedophiles, manipulators, and liars. I personally think organized religion might have been an invention of the Devil.


I starred you however be careful that you dont exclude other institutions that hide and perpetuate pedophilia. Foster care institutions, psychiatric institutions etc. Pedophila thrives in institutions that exert total control over beleif systems, over freedom of forced medication or forced political brainwashing. There is also plenty evidence out there about Hollywoods "sins" However having said that - Centralized institutional religions will never be dismantled any time soon. They enjoy shared power and wealth status with Monarchies Republics and Socialist States.

Thats not to say that the local archdiocese/chapter/temple of any particular faith necessarily practices or condones such behaviour.

I dont believe in god, I have god, I gnosis a Supreme creator, the kingdom within


You're certainly right about institutionalized religions sharing power and wealth with governments. One hand washes the other-- always in greenbacks and sometimes in blood.



posted on Feb, 4 2015 @ 04:31 AM
link   
a reply to: DeadSeraph




Socrates never actually wrote anything down, and the only reason we even consider him a real person is because of Plato.

Yet Plato and contemporaneous commentary from his time, seem to corroborate the story of Socrates existence. So should we believe the earlier works supporting the idea Socrates existed (some of which were written by his proteges) or the later document claiming he was fictitious?



Would red herring be apt in describing this? Not too sure about the slang.

Do Plato or Scorates espouse a system of centralized control/Empire run by a well fed priestly class who dispense salvation or hellfire (with interspersion of miracles) at the point of a sword?
But Rome did and still does and for that matter Romes cousin cities Washington and London

I will admit to the fact that without slavery subsidies a lot of philosophers would have starved as attested by the history of the Greeks



posted on Feb, 4 2015 @ 04:35 AM
link   
a reply to: Tangerine

I said imaginary persons... not imaginary deities... No people don't die for imaginary PEOPLE...

Yes quite recently there has been a few people who have put forth an effort to show that Jesus didn't ever exist, but you can almost always show that those people have an agenda... that being hatred for Christianity in general.

that I can understand, but ignoring the information available is not an excuse to claim he didn't exist...

James is considered by quite a few people to be the writer of "the book of James" within the NT... but there are some who disagree and say that the brother of Jesus was "James the just" who was mentioned in Thomas...

Jude was also a brother of Jesus...

Peter was a follower of Jesus... and the author of Mark, though not directly... it is thought that Mark was dictated by Peter...

Yes the existing copies of copies of copies of these letters are from the second century... but we don't know when the originals were written because we don't have any of them...

I mean... feel free to ignore the evidence if you will...

Hang your whole mission on the words contemporaneous documentation...

fortunately the weight of evidence is in favor of your opposition...


edit on 4-2-2015 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 4 2015 @ 04:47 AM
link   
I think evidence is in favor of a historicalJesus I just don't believe the supernatural aspects of the story and I am interested in what the original NT had to say about him before the Churches and followers added their parts in to lend credence to aspects like the Trinity.

I would really like to read the true story of his birth because I know of three versions.

The amount of stuff historians have found to have been added long after the originals deserve a reprint of the NT.



posted on Feb, 4 2015 @ 05:01 AM
link   
a reply to: ccseagull




The difference would be I am taking part in a conversation, not attacking.



But you saw it as an attack on your beliefs and were hovering to start the dance...a mere 1 hour later. If you dont see introducing satan and its implications to non-beleivers...well then I think you are straight out lying. For the sake of your own standards carefully re-read your own posts with the perspective of an outsider.

(Antsy, hovering,dancing, satan -- your words )



posted on Feb, 4 2015 @ 05:38 AM
link   
I think there are good and bad scholars on both sides of the debate . People like "Dorothy M. Murdock,[1][2] also known by her pen name Acharya S,[3][4] is an American author and proponent of the Christ myth theory.[5] She writes books, and operates a website named Truth be Known. She argues that Christianity is founded on earlier myths and the characters depicted in Christianity are based upon Roman, Greek, Egyptian, and other myths.[6] Her theories have received negative commentaries from academic scholars.[7][8][9]

In her various books, she describes the New Testament as a work of mythic fiction within a historical setting. She claims that the story of Jesus Christ is a retelling of various pagan myths, representing "astrotheology", or the story of the Sun, and also incorporates the science of archaeoastronomy. She asserts the pagans understood the stories to be myths, but Christians obliterated evidence to the contrary by destroying and controlling literature when they attained control of theRoman Empire, which led to widespread illiteracy in the ancient world, ensuring the mythical nature of Christ's story was hidden.[10] " en.wikipedia.org... are a real piece of work . Dan Brown and The Da Vinci Code are another sort .I guess needing to make a buck to eat is understandable but some people actually buy into the crap they put out . They seem to be fond of using Gnostic text's and mis-quoting scholars to make their point .

A lie will go around the world a few times before the truth has a chance to get up off the chair .I am presently watching a lecture by Micheal Heiser on Gnosticism . Its a 6 hour lecture and well worth the watch . He claims that Gnosticism has Jewish roots . That makes sense to me because of what Paul had wrote with his own hand . I know you are not a fan of Paul and that's ok . You seem to fall into the Gnostic camp ....peacea reply to: Akragon



posted on Feb, 4 2015 @ 05:58 AM
link   
a reply to: ccseagull



Think of God as you will.


I do he is not a god of racism (OT) or a blood drinking cannibal (NT). It requires no worship or threats of future hell to give me a moral or ethical standard by which I form a world view or to keep my physical urges or war bloodlust in check; whereas Jesus who knew even an extreme act of betrayal would be carried out by Iscariot, couldnt predict Peters actions in his very presence in cutting of an ear of a Roman soldier.





You could have chosen to converse with me in a mature and respectful manner but you choose to lower yourself to a childlike behaviour.


I'm sorry but you on the one hand pretended to have love for non-believers and with complete cognitive dissonance mentioned satan and alluded to the implications of the fate to befall non-believers. I take offense in that not so much for myself but for the logical (your logical) outcome for such things as cot death victims, (maybe reintroduce purgatory)

I dare use words in their original non-pejorative sense. Christianity as correctly described by the romans was a Cult. Take your pick



cult
kʌlt/
noun
noun: cult; plural noun: cults

1.
a system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object.
"the cult of St Olaf"
a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or as imposing excessive control over members.
"a network of Satan-worshipping cults"
synonyms: sect, religious group, denomination, religious order, church, faith, faith community, belief, persuasion, affiliation, movement; More
group, body, faction, clique
"a religious cult"
a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular thing.
"the cult of the pursuit of money as an end in itself"
synonyms: obsession with, fixation on, mania for, passion for; More
idolization of, admiration for, devotion to, worship of, veneration of, reverence for
"the cult of youth and beauty in Hollywood"
2.
a person or thing that is popular or fashionable among a particular group or section of society.




1.
a. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
b. The followers of such a religion or sect.
2. A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
3. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.


en.wikipedia.org...


Cult is literally the "care" (Latin cultus) owed to God or gods and to temples, shrines, or churches. Cult is embodied in ritual and ceremony. Its present or former presence is made concrete in temples, shrines and churches, and cult images, including cult images and votive deposits at votive sites.



posted on Feb, 4 2015 @ 05:59 AM
link   
Problem is this new book of Barnabas does not fit with any of the other books.



posted on Feb, 4 2015 @ 06:07 AM
link   
a reply to: Irishhaf

Well I'm always intrigued why it would take (according to the New Testament) a cohort (600-700) of highly trained armed men to contain a peaceful son of a carpenter and a handful of disciples, acolytes and followers. Theres more to the story than what your local preacher would have you believe




top topics



 
65
<< 5  6  7    9  10  11 >>

log in

join