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The push to make you vaccinate your children

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posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 12:48 AM
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a reply to: SlickMcFavorite

You're making solid points but unfortunately the situation at hand requires us to look at risks versus benefits. As far as science knows now (and it's no small sample of data available via the CDC alone, plus the many other outlets) the risks of the vaccine haven't been proven to outweigh the risks of MMR. I look forward to improvement in medicine but until then maintaining herd immunity requires something close to 84-94 percent of the population vaccinated. Ideally, medicine could manage full contact immunity, but we just aren't there yet. It's my understanding that no amount of adjuvants is good for anyone, but it's not worse than the diseases we'd be looking to prevent. I think the heated debate is concern, it's coming from a good place but I feel like education about the pros and cons of vaccination would eventually assuage some fears exacerbated by the framing of information coming in from all sides of this argument.

I feel like there are a lot of cases where because many diseases have been less prevalent then they once were there's a prevailing attitude that it won't happen to someone we know.

Even when I weigh all the possible risks of vaccination, including ones for which i have seen no data to suggest a causal relationship for, against the possible effects of the childhood illnesses it's intended to help prevent, I still would rather vaccinate.

Again, operating in an (as yet unproven by science) paradigm where all possible side effects including ones chiefly asserted in anti vaccination literature of the vaccine are real possibilities, I'd still choose to vaccinate. A side effect for a vaccine only effects the vaccinated, where the disease effects anyone and the worst case scenario in both is death. But death of one versus death of many tips the scales to vaccination.

So unless the possibility exists within the "anti vaccination" (not a fan of the term) movement's assertions that there is a communicable, death resultant side effect from getting the vaccination itself, I don't see the point in not vaccinating.
edit on 6-2-2015 by hearows because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-2-2015 by hearows because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 03:20 AM
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a reply to: FamCore
If you give people the choice on where to spend their money towards school, I am sure most of those public schools would be history. As it is now, everyone, even "anti vaxxers" are paying into the system, therefore should have the same access to them.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 06:51 AM
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a reply to: coldkidc


So you think the power of the news is enough to sway opinion and get people to wake up and pay attention? I think that's the whole idea of "news." You say you have no opinion on whether a child gets vaccinated but I don't think that's true. You feel it should be optional. The whole vaccine scare was started by one doctor who has since lost his license. His test group was less than 20. None of his proclamations could ever be verified or found to be accurate. You are right about the power of the news. Without checking, they aired his report because it was sensational and here we are today with a measles outbreak. Is it that hard to believe there is not some other NEW environmental contaminate that causes autism? It could be anything out there. I wonder if vaccinations are whats killing the bees? We have a lot of crap in the air around here.


edit on 6-2-2015 by Loveaduck because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 07:01 AM
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a reply to: hearows

Thank you for your amicable and well-reasoned response. I mostly agree with you and given everything that has been exchanged here I want to state that because of the very points you made, that I happen to share, I am for vaccination. I also want to say that the effort I put into my posts was as much out of desire to cultivate a better exchange of information through empathy than it was to express, in the best way I could, the base-context of the concerns of those who hesitate to vaccinate in a hope to clear some of the incredulous simplification of that position.

Unfortunately for those who are pro-vaccination I strongly feel that, despite their legitimate concerns (mine included), any inertia contributed to an end result of mandatory vaccinations across the board is unethical, at best. Free-will is, and will always be, preeminent. Not social responsibility, not anything our culture has produced. The very least and insidious of which is unsustainable dense population centers that create the conditions that favor endemics and, subsequently, one-sided volatile tsunamis of disdain and ad-hominems towards those who justifiably have reservations to injecting massive amounts of different substances into their children which, as I said before, cannot be undone once administered.

I am pro-vaccination, but I am also pro-anti-vaccination because I don't feel I could be ethical if I weren't. I agree that information should hopefully assuage the fears of many who wonder about the long-term effects but I also want to point out that information lacking of a causal relationship is not the same as proving beyond any doubt that the substance is harmless, again, in a long-term holistic sense. Stating that there is no evidence to suggest a causal relationship belies the preexisting state of the absence of vaccines in the first place, the state from which a comprehensive and exhaustive study should show absolutely no harm possible so that those who begin non(un)-vaccinated (all humans) can move from this natural state to a state of election. I also hope that those who disagree with people who question vaccination will have patience, humility, and allow for the free-will of the individual to moderate their vaccine schedule if it makes them more comfortable. Whether that means compartmentalized distribution or forgoing individual vaccines for diseases that are non-fatal or marginalized by modern sanitation and modern medicine.
edit on 6-2-2015 by SlickMcFavorite because:




posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 07:03 AM
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a reply to: coldkidc


I'm not posting this to get into the politics of whether or not to vaccinate...


Point of information: that is exactly why you are posting.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 10:46 AM
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I won't get into the politics, either. Great post!

I, myself, have to add that since the 1950's, there has been a huge push to make scientists our new gods. Every movie has shown the scientist saving the day. They have been conditioning us to take as gospel a scientist's view. If you question, you are dumb. If you point out opposing facts, ignorant.

This happens, while at the same time, every 5 or 10 years, a scientist will have a break-through that contradicts a past study. Eggs are bad...wait, they are good...no, only the whites are good, really they are all bad, nope good again, etc.

And we are told they are smarter, and we could never understand what they know.

So, as scientists and the government say, bow down, bend over, and get these foreign chemicals injected into your body, and in 20 years, you will be the statistics in a new study that proves the injections were good for you...wait, i meant bad for you, I mean the vaccines was good, the side effects were bad, no wait.....



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 11:59 AM
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a reply to: DJW001

It's hard to separate the politics from the subject.

My point was that, rather than discussing whether or not it is "right or wrong" to vaccinate, I was hoping to address the media propaganda aspects given the large number of one-sided opinions presented in our general media.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 12:19 PM
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a reply to: Loveaduck



So you think the power of the news is enough to sway opinion and get people to wake up and pay attention? I think that's the whole idea of "news." You say you have no opinion on whether a child gets vaccinated but I don't think that's true. You feel it should be optional...


Where did you see me say I had no opinion? Of course I have an opinion...

The point of the news should not be to "sway people" as you put it.
That is however the point of "propaganda."

It's sad that you've confused the two & assume our news is supposed to be propaganda instead of simply an informational window to the rest of the world...but I guess that's naive.
edit on 6-2-2015 by coldkidc because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 01:39 PM
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originally posted by: coldkidc
a reply to: DJW001

It's hard to separate the politics from the subject.

My point was that, rather than discussing whether or not it is "right or wrong" to vaccinate, I was hoping to address the media propaganda aspects given the large number of one-sided opinions presented in our general media.


I think there are really only 2 camps. Those that still (for whatever reason) still trust the gov and corps and those than know better.

It doesn't matter if it is global warming, 911, JFK, Vietnam or whatever. Some people just cannot sacrifice their erroneous indoctrination driven world view in order to see the truth.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 02:12 PM
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As if it was just a coincidence that yesterday one of Obama's Windy City puppets announced that they could possibly have a measles outbreak starting there?

LMAO! Yeah right. These liars need to pay up to big pharm for supporting this Obama care disaster. Time to pay the piper.

Yep, Mandatory vaccinations coming soon for all the herds. All those who do not fall in line and comply like good little robots, will be accused of child endangerment. ~$heopleNation



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 09:52 PM
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a reply to: coldkidc

I will continue to say what I have been saying - Do you want your child to wind up with polio/measles? My mom is 71 years old and got polio when she was two years of age. She has been through hell and back with this horrible disease. You can bet your sweet bippy that we all were vaccinated when we were children. Unless you have seen first hand what a loved one/friend has gone through, you have no idea.

I will continue to say that I think it should be mandatory for children to be vaccinated if they want to attend school. Any parents who make the wrong choice not to have their children vaccinated should be reported to child protective services. I really don't care what people think of my opinions, I will continue to make my opinion known! So many people are totally clueless and misinformed. Pretty sick and pathetic.



posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 10:12 PM
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a reply to: ChiefD

I think any time you hand the government the reins to your life you're making a big mistake.



posted on Feb, 7 2015 @ 03:15 AM
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a reply to: coldkidc


I think any time you hand the government the reins to your life you're making a big mistake.


No-one is asking you to hand the reins of your life over to the government. You are being asked to pay attention to scientific facts in order to save your life and the lives of those you love.



posted on Feb, 7 2015 @ 03:17 AM
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a reply to: SheopleNation


As if it was just a coincidence that yesterday one of Obama's Windy City puppets announced that they could possibly have a measles outbreak starting there?


No, it is not a coincidence, it is the start of a pandemic.



posted on Feb, 7 2015 @ 03:19 AM
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a reply to: johnnyBgood


I think there are really only 2 camps. Those that still (for whatever reason) still trust the gov and corps and those than know better.


Look at it this way: if the evil government needs slaves, they will look after them the way a rancher cares for their cattle. The government doesn't want its chattel to sicken and die, so listen to it this time.



posted on Feb, 7 2015 @ 03:21 AM
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a reply to: coldkidc


My point was that, rather than discussing whether or not it is "right or wrong" to vaccinate, I was hoping to address the media propaganda aspects given the large number of one-sided opinions presented in our general media.


In other words, you want to convince people that the medical establishment are lying about the science. Why? What is your agenda? Why do you want to put children's lives at risk?



posted on Feb, 7 2015 @ 03:29 AM
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a reply to: DJW001




No, it is not a coincidence, it is the start of a pandemic.


Do you pedal fear for fun or are you a spokesperson for the main stream media ?



posted on Feb, 7 2015 @ 03:57 AM
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a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed


Do you pedal fear for fun or are you a spokesperson for the main stream media ?


I'm not the one trying to frighten people away from vaccines, which have proven to be an effective way of saving lives.



posted on Feb, 7 2015 @ 04:12 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed


Do you pedal fear for fun or are you a spokesperson for the main stream media ?


I'm not the one trying to frighten people away from vaccines, which have proven to be an effective way of saving lives.





i agree vaccines have been very effective....i was addressing your statement about the measles outbreak being a pandemic



posted on Feb, 7 2015 @ 04:53 AM
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a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed


i agree vaccines have been very effective....i was addressing your statement about the measles outbreak being a pandemic


Measles virtually disappeared from North America. Now, thanks to anti-vaccine propaganda, a growing cohort of children are vulnerable. That has the potential to create a pandemic. I am not scare mongering, I am attempting to wake people up to a dangerous situation. By listening to idiots like Jenny McCarthy, parents are putting their children at risk. Science proves that vaccines do not cause autism but measles can cause blindness, hearing impairment and even death.




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