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Disparaging Islamophobia

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posted on Feb, 4 2015 @ 09:19 PM
I wonder what the consensus among Muslims was during the 400 year Ottoman Empire?

And what did Europeans think in the occupied areas?

Like Greece for example.

posted on Feb, 4 2015 @ 09:19 PM
a reply to: JBurns

I find it absolutely horrific that in this modern world you have to explain this.

It saddens me.

posted on Feb, 4 2015 @ 09:22 PM
a reply to: PheonixReborn

Same here!

I feel as though I'm being attacked for stating the obvious.

The miniscule number of extremists get all the attention. Much more sensational for our quasi-criminal MSM outlets that promote this crap.

posted on Feb, 4 2015 @ 09:30 PM
Despite all of that, I'm still pleased with the outcome. I set out to make a distinction between the norm and the extreme. I have done this through unassailable logic and fact.

Purpose of post: make a distinction between extremists and average Muslims. Demonstrate that most Muslims are non violent.

Method: Show global census of Muslims, and compare to number of violent extremists.

Outcome: Because even 0.1% of Muslims orchestrating violent acts would equate to an army the size of the PLA, and since this is obviously not the case, I have done so.

To all those arguing in here..

Your arguments begin and end with unrelated arguments. "but what if" "yeah but they" etc.

That's great and all, but they have nothing to do with THIS topic. I won't reward topic hijacking by replying to unrelated comments and attacks.

Again, this post was ONLY intended to distinguish violent Muslims from the rest. And I am satisfied with that outcome.

posted on Feb, 4 2015 @ 11:39 PM
War IS coming. If there was any voice from Islam, they chose not to speak up about it. Our media can tell us all about the demonization of Islam but I like to get it from the horses mouth. Where was your voice when all these problems were infesting the news? Where was your peaceful solutions at when these problems arisen? Organizations such as the Black Panthers don't help your cause if you don't speak out against them. Silence is your problem and what condemns you. Now the time for speaking out is just about over. What pray tell should we do now? You already know what. War IS coming. I'm just reading the writings on the wall.

We have the petro-dollar at stake. You have your God at stake. There is the problem. It does go a little deeper than that. It's a two for one special for the west to demonize you. Your ideology gone and our petro-dollar saying on top. I would like to hope that it wasn't the case but it is. I have a hard time taking either side. I don't believe in Allah or your teachings. I would like to co-exist but our leaders are in the way. Would you force your ideology on me if you were the power? I'm sure you would. You see where we're at? No easy way out. No one giving an out.

On a personal level, I treat everyone the same. I don't have the power to stop the tide. Politics and religion never mix well. I hate both.

posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 12:46 PM
I think there are many who have 'islamophobiaphobia'...

All religions are horrible for humanity in general. To deny the perversion and moral bankruptcy in the Quran for the sake of political correctness is pathetic. This tiptoeing around and making excuses for what is actually written in a 'holy' book is being done in the name of fighting racism or flash, Islam isn't a race, it's a belief system, and many who dislike it know quite a lot about it.

The word phobia means irrational fear; if only one percent of Muslims threaten to kill me or attack my country, that would make the fear rational.

No one hates Muslims. No one wants them to have any less freedom than the rest of us. But let's just be honest- all 3 Abrahamic religions are sh*t. And if you're pretending like at present any religion other than Islam even comes close in terms of amount of followers willing to commit acts of violence, you are being dishonest.

There are regular public beheadings in Saudi Arabia. Kids see them, bystanders cheer for them. ISIS is not that far removed from the country that is Islam's motherland.

Again no one hates Muslims. But their religion is horrible and anyone who so wishes has the right to express that verbally or literarily. It's not people saying that that's the's how some Muslims are reacting.

To anyone who is offended, welcome to 'Murica.

posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 01:32 PM

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 05:41 PM
a reply to: JBurns
Religion is of man...................................that's the real problem.

posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 07:47 PM

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: neo96

The problem is in Germany, they either were or were not a member of the Nazi party.

Muslims, however, are a religious community.

And I submit that a religious community that large is infinitely more dangerous than a country.

You can defend the small minority that are peaceful and believe what is done in the name of islam is wrong. But that is indeed a minority. Because we've already established through JessicaRabbitTX posts that the vast majority of muslims support the extreme views.

islam is the problem, and not something to be defended as if it were an innocent bystander.

I had an advantage where I worked with muslims. The owners were from Egypt. One very nice guy, named Sherief, one guy named Ahmed, and one guy named Momen. They all spoke Arabic. The workers there (2 other Americans other than me) were from other countries. AbdulAziz was from Eritrea he also spoke Arabic. Abdulrahim was from Senegal he spoke his native language, the only Arabic he knew was what he was forced to learn reciting the Koran, he had zero comprehension as to what he was actually saying though. And many others from Senegal too.

The point is, they rarely spoke arabic, because they usually had to talk to Senegalis or Americans. Arabic was rare, but was spoken a bit. So I got to hear them talk about us when they thought I wasn't around. I asked a LOT of questions. They answered every one without fail in the tone of "No I don't agree with that" (in reference to a terrorist attack, or what have you). I never met one who told me to my face that they agreed with the extremeists. Then I overhead them talking and they were laughing about how many times they LIED to me. Heard it with my own ears, in ENGLISH.

If a muslim is telling YOU that they do not agree with what's going on and it's "not islam" I can assure you with 100% certainty that they will tell another muslim the exact opposite.

That is the problem right there.

So I can understand you wanting to defend them. I can. But reality is a pain. And if they truly want islam to be respected, change from within needs to happen, and happen fast. The world is tired of people dying at the hands of muslim terrorists.

posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 10:33 PM

originally posted by: JBurns
Despite all of that, I'm still pleased with the outcome. I set out to make a distinction between the norm and the extreme. I have done this through unassailable logic and fact.

Purpose of post: make a distinction between extremists and average Muslims. Demonstrate that most Muslims are non violent.

Method: Show global census of Muslims, and compare to number of violent extremists.

Outcome: Because even 0.1% of Muslims orchestrating violent acts would equate to an army the size of the PLA, and since this is obviously not the case, I have done so.

To all those arguing in here..

Your arguments begin and end with unrelated arguments. "but what if" "yeah but they" etc.

That's great and all, but they have nothing to do with THIS topic. I won't reward topic hijacking by replying to unrelated comments and attacks.

Again, this post was ONLY intended to distinguish violent Muslims from the rest. And I am satisfied with that outcome.

I still don't understand how you don't equate Islam with violence. It specifically calls for the death or enslavement of every single person on earth who does not convert. Anyone claiming to be a Muslim has to be pro-violence. There's no such thing as a Muslim who does not support the murder of innocent people. If they don't support that then they can't truly believe in Islam.

Yes, I know it's ingrained in us to not discriminate against someone's faith, but there is such a thing as good judgement.

The following is from an interview with an Islamic expert, an Iraqi-born native Arabic-speaker who has inside experience with Islam and has done extensive research as well. I suggest you read the entire interview. It's extremely interesting but also quite scary. He also backs up his statements with evidence. You've said we can't judge someone based on their beliefs. Well I think we can. If I believed in child abuse you'd judge me for it. Coincidentally Mohamed married a six year old girl and raped her at nine. Muslims WORSHIP him.

These are just a few points from the article

It is very difficult for decent, well-meaning Americans and Europeans – who truly believe the propaganda of Muslims that Islam is only a religion and as such must have redeeming characteristics – to be told by myself and others who know Islam from the inside that the truth is quite different.

Unfortunately, most Americans – as well as most of humanity – have been misled because Muhammadan Islam is not merely a religion but a cult belief system, the cult of Muhammad. Believing Muslims must follow Sharia. It is obligatory for all Muslims, everywhere, for all time.
Sharia – based upon Muhammad’s Quran and Sunna (Muhammad’s acts, deeds, thoughts, behavior, etc. as recorded in the hadiths and Sira) – explicitly commands DECEIT, hatred, misogyny, racism, and warmongering against non-Muslims.

There is no other “religion” that does this and this is why I say that Islam cannot be considered merely a “religion” like any other – and it most certainly cannot be called “moderate”. For this is the command from Allah to all Muslims, as recorded in the Qur’an:

Al Tauba 9:29 “Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his apostle [Muhammad] nor acknowledge the religion of truth [ISLAM] (even if they are) of the People of the Book [Christians & Jews] until they pay the Jizya [onerous Tax for not being a Muslim] with willing submission and feel themselves humiliated”

How about “moderate Muslims” ?

There is no such thing as a ‘moderate Muslim’. Every Muslim – especially the males – is fundamentally a JIHADI. That is, one who will fight Unbelievers (currently 80% of humanity including ALL Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Atheists, Agnostics, etc.) – any and all those who do not follow Muhammad. Sharia gives the Unbelievers the following three choices:

(A) Convert to Islam (whether we like it or not)
(B) Be subject to Islam as Dhimmis in humiliation and degradation forever
(C) Be Exterminated

Muslims are not allowed to so much as question Islam, again per the Qur’an:

O ye who believe! ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble — Q 5:101 …the command of Allah is a decree determined — Q 33:38 5.

If people, Muslims and non-Muslims alike, took the time to read and study the Qur’an, what would they learn?

I have spent more than 30 years on these subjects and not once did I attempt to change the indoctrinated mind of a follower of Muhammad, knowing full well it would be extremely difficult. Most important of all, Americans must understand that any Muslim who leaves the faith would be killed by his own ‘loving’ family and or friends. Even in our Western democracies, most of those who leave Islam must do so in secrecy.

“Whoever changes his Islamic religion, then kill him.” – Bukhari 9.84.57 “When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostasizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed.” — Reliance of the Traveller, A Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law (08.1)

Acts That Entail Leaving Islam :

to speak words that imply unbelief…
to revile Allah or His messenger…

to deny any verse of the Koran or anything which by scholarly consensus belongs to it…

to deny the obligatory character of something which by the consensus of Muslims…is part of Islam…


Did you catch that part about Islam commanding deceit against non Muslims? They aren't going to come out and tell you that they believe in this stuff or that they support terrorists.

edit on 5-2-2015 by JessicaRabbitTx because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 02:58 AM
OP, please please do not use radical created words like Islamophobia, by definition its a failure, a phobia is an irrational fear of something, the fear of radical Islam is anything but irrational.

Whilst I agree that most Muslims are non Jihadist and up to about 10yrs ago I would have said 99% were that there is now a growing change amongst more moderate Muslims to support things like Shariah Law with all its 2nd century culture shocks. My inlaws are Muslims and 99.99% of the family I have met are lovely lovely people who have their faith but do not have anything against Non Muslims and engage with Western culture totally with zero support for things like Shariah law but recently one of the family started to take the faith far more seriously and started to spread beyond the book and take in the man made hadiths etc and THAT is where the radicalisation begins in earnest.

I as an atheist have watched the growing numbers who are as mainly young being pushed towards the radical side while at school and especially at college and the mosque. I've also noticed the older Muslims seem to have been prompted to not put down the people who are destroying the peaceful side of the religion by just saying "god will judge them, its not for me to do that". This reluctance to police their own religion worries me, there are groups that DO openly condemn the Jihadist section (and lets be careful of how Jihad is used as it has multiple meanings) but there's no where near enough willing to do so, I've heard speeches at Mosques where Imams tell the mass that the West is trying to divide and destroy the religion, they must stick together etc, this is just a cynical ploy by the Radicals to keep the drive towards radicalism.

So are all Muslims radical, NO, MOST are peaceful people but sadly there's a growing inward push to promote and enforce radical views and THAT we have to be worried about. What also worries me is that places like here in the UK are receiving vast numbers of unskilled people from HIGHLY radicalised countries, once here these people are targeted once they join Mosques here. And please, don't play the "he's far right, he's a racist" card, I'm merely pointing out the flaw in the immigration system, I'm not trying to ban immigration.

Considering I'm from a mixed marriage and have fantastic Muslim family in laws, I think its fair to say racism is a thing my wife and I have to put up with rather than do it ourselves..

posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 07:03 AM

originally posted by: JBurns
Before certain people jump the gun, and hijack this topic I'd like to ask you to hold off, and hear me out.

I'm a Christian. I do not practice Islam, but have several neighbors that do. I live in the US. Suburban US, actually.

Recently I read a topic filled with hate and racism, and without calling anyone out, I'd like to say the following:

1) Islam is a religion. It is not a political ideology, as some people think.

2) There are political right-wingers affiliated with Islam. Clearly these are a slim minority. This is evidenced by the fact that 99% of Muslims are not attacking us daily. My neighbors included, which by the way are as American as it gets..

3) Bin Laden, Al Awlawki, Al Baghdadi are all in the far-right of their political parties. They just happen to exploit Islam for their extreme political agenda. Eric Rudolph and others were also political violent extremists. They also happened to be Christians.

4) Brings me to my final point: By assuming all Muslims are extremists, you must also, logically accept all Christians are extremists. Islam, being the worlds largest religion, is bound to have a few political right wingers involved in it. All religions do.

I ask that you consider the above when making generalities.

This certainly doesn't even apply to most of us! Most ATSers are enlightened enough to avoid resorting to racism and biggotry.


Thanks for hearing me out!


Did you know that Thomas Jefferson made the same mistake as you in thinking that Islam was a religion in the same way as others ?

Please read this before replying:

Did you know in fact the term "Leatherneck" for Marines comes directly from the Barbary wars where Marines would wear a thick leather collar to protect against Muslims who would attempt to behead 'infidels' in battle ?

What so many people fail to realize in their apologies for Islam is that anyone who actually follows the religion correctly, has extremist ideals no matter how well they hide it. Muslims do not want western style freedoms because their religion teaches very clearly that it corrupts the mind and soul. True Muslims do not have any concept of "human rights" or care for one's for fellow man, there is only 'Muslim brother', or 'Infidel'. These are the direct teachings of the prophet, and to deny them is blasphemy, punishable by DEATH in most Islamic nations.

Islam is not just another religion, or Christianity under a different name. Islam is a way of life, and it subverts everything we have worked towards for centuries in the west in terms of "unalienable rights" and humanism. The Declaration of Arbroath, the Magna Carta, the Declaration of Independence and then the US constitution.

Islam flies in the face of such documents, it goes against ideas of equality of all humans, freedom and the right to self-determination.

Keep telling yourself only radical Islam is a problem. Tell it to someone in Sweden too, I think they are pretty damn tired of the lies already:

The very violent rape took place September 12, 2014. It all began when the Somali man stole the woman’s bicycle. When she followed him to take back the bike, he trapped her in a courtyard.

‘- Now you will die you f*cking c*nt!,’ the Somali cried as he attacked her. He kicked and hit his victim in the head with a glass bottle and then raped her in different ways. The woman suffered serious injuries.

According to the court, the rape was “ruthless, brutal and characterized by roughness”. ‘The woman has felt the fear of death, and many times during the rapes she asked him to stop, at one point by resting on knees with her hands clasped. The man … held the woman in a way so she could not breathe. She has been lying on broken glass and he attempted anal intercourse,’ reads the judgment.

Sweden used to be one of the sefest countries in the world with almost non-existant sex crime rates. Today after massive Muslim immigration Swedish women have a 1:4 chance of being raped in their lifetime. That's right, have a daughter in Sweden today, and there's a 50% chance either her or your wife will be raped....

And with muslims it's often gang-rape and a severe beating at the same time (or murder)

But wait, it's not just your children and women you need to worry about! Watch out for your pets too, or they might end up like this unfortunate Swedish cat:

Are these images hard to look at ?????? Well get used to it if you keep apologizing for the actions of the insane and inviting their "religion" into (formerly)civilized countries.....

In closing:

"We took the liberty to make some enquiries concerning the ground of their pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury, and observed that we considered all mankind as our friends who had done us no wrong, nor had given us any provocation.

"The Ambassador [of Tripoli] answered us that it was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise."

[Letter from the commissioners, John Adams & Thomas Jefferson, to John Jay, 28 March 1786]” ― Thomas Jefferson, Letters of Thomas Jefferson

In other words, 229 years ago Muslims believed the same as they do today: That they have a RIGHT to enslave, rape, murder and brutalize any human who does not accept Allah and the prophet.

edit on 6-2-2015 by 8675309jenny because: typos

posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 12:21 PM
a reply to: 8675309jenny

Very interesting link! I don't dispute the horrors of any culture that advocates those heinous actions. I only want to make the distinction between those who support those things and those who do not.

posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 12:45 PM

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: 8675309jenny

Very interesting link! I don't dispute the horrors of any culture that advocates those heinous actions. I only want to make the distinction between those who support those things and those who do not.

Saying the words "I support Islam" is exactly the same as admitting to support those heinous actions commanded in their Qur'an.
There is no difference. The moderate Muslim does not exist. Even if they aren't killing they do support it. That is what the evidence proves.

You haven't provided any evidence showing otherwise. You can choose to ignore the violent beliefs but that doesn't mean they aren't there.
edit on 6-2-2015 by JessicaRabbitTx because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 01:12 PM
a reply to: JessicaRabbitTx

First, if you wish to accuse an entire religion of this, the burden of proof lays on you.

Second, my post does indeed only target the ones who are violent.

You'll never convince me 100% are evil. Short of doing so, your claim that Islam=terror is absolutely facetious and untrue.

posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 01:14 PM
a reply to: JessicaRabbitTx

Not every religious person follows their religion fully!

Do all Christians refrain from alcohol, drugs, gambling, premarital sex, swearing, stealing, etc? No!

Do all Muslims collude, conspire and advocate death of the West? No!

This is a very narrow, MSM induced point of view.
edit on 2/6/2015 by JBurns because: added

posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 01:50 PM
a reply to: JBurns

Read the Qur'an. It's in there. I've already posted links.

I can and will accuse an entire religion of supporting the beliefs. That's all a religion is. Beliefs.

Now I'm not a Christian so please don't take this as biased. I'm just addressing the point you made. It's true that not every Christian abstains from what the bible declares sin. The difference is that in Christianity, believers aren't commanded to kill sinners or unbelievers. Christians aren't commanded to deceit nonbelievers. Christians can break a commandment then ask for forgiveness. If a Muslim says that they don't agree with something in the Qua'ran, the punishment is death.

Keeping that in mind, why would someone claim to be a Muslim if they're really just a good person who doesn't want nonbelievers to die? How could anyone say that they support Islam without also supporting Allahs commands?

The Qua'ran is way more strict about questioning than the bible. In Islam to question is to leave the religion all together. It's not nearly as easy to pick and choose what you believe like in other religions. The texts are clear and there are no loopholes. Allah doesn't offer forgiveness. If you disapprove of any part of Islam then you must never act on it, so you can't expect even a moderate Muslim to stand up for victims of extreme Muslims. That's why we never hear apologies for terror attacks.

Keeping that in mind, it is reasonable to assume that anyone calling them self a Muslim doesn't question or disagree with any part of the Qua'ran, including the passages that call for murder and enslavement of innocents. It's also reasonable to assume that one would lie to a non muslim, while still supporting jihadist action.

Just do some research. It's not a hidden conspiracy that Islam is evil. It's right out in the open. How can someone be moderate while defending genocide? To defend Islam IS to defend genocide.

ETA: I'm not saying that every Muslim born person is evil. I'm saying that anyone defending Islam is defending an evil belief system. I don't believe the people are evil. I believe they are brainwashed and I am sad for them.

I realize that some don't condone it but can't speak up because they'll be killed, but I'm guessing those people aren't the majority since the religion is still thriving.

edit on 6-2-2015 by JessicaRabbitTx because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-2-2015 by JessicaRabbitTx because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 02:16 PM
a reply to: JessicaRabbitTx

After reviewing the passages in question...

I can only determine that you are correct. Apparently it does call for death and destruction?

I can't believe this is true. I'm honestly taken aback by this revelation.

I suppose I should thank you, Jessica. For opening my eyes to the facts. That however unfair I deem this, the religion does espouse violent acts.

didn't see it going this way

posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 02:25 PM
a reply to: JBurns

a reply to: JBurns

You know, I feel bad because I know I'm coming off as pretty harsh. I don't like to do that and I also get that sick feeling that comes with judging such a large group of people.

I just can't deny the facts, and the facts show that Islam commands truly terrible things of its believers. I know it's less depressing to ignore it.

It's a barbaric belief system and I just can't understand associating ones self with it unless one has been sufficiently brainwashed to accept the violence that it commands.

I wish that I had a reason to believe that there is goodness in it, but I just can't find one.

Until I really looked into Islam I didn't know that such a large group could believe in this kind of stuff, and it's extremely depressing.

I honestly do feel bad for the people. The brainwashing starts at birth so they don't have much of a choice.
edit on 6-2-2015 by JessicaRabbitTx because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 6 2015 @ 02:32 PM
a reply to: JessicaRabbitTx

Ah trust me I let my beliefs get carried away sometime here and start to act blind! Sometimes a cold bucket of water is what it takes
No hard feelings
I always want to see the best in people, even when its not there sadly.

As far as the cultural indoctrination goes, do you think they are exposed to a lot of anti-West propaganda?

More importantly, is there any possible way to counter this?

I just wish those who hate us so much could take the time to read topics like this. To know that people will stand up for them, if they chose to participate in our culture and not seek its end.

You really put a lot of effort in your arguments, and it has showed. You've changed one mind, if nothing more!

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