Christians, are violent old testament verses relevant to your beliefs today?

a reply to: windword

My beef with Orangetom, and his kind, stems from his assertion that there are no "good guys" in the Bible, and indeed his assertion that there is no good in all of humanity.

What do you mean by "Good guys" ? And how can you define good in the eyes of a Supreme God ? And what is Orangetom kind ?

I find that to be typical of Christians and in opposition to the Bible itself, as I have shown.

You have quoted 2 different things to show your point. The fist is a parable that was directed to the hypocritical Pharise, who was claiming to know the law he did not applying to it and asking Jesus to tell him what to do to inherit eternal life.

Taken from your post

God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

That simply shows that God admire His work. As a "Catia V5 Designer " my self that i am working for the Automotive branch, i also admire my work. So what those two have in common other than the word "good" in it ?

Only his death matters to Orangetom. I find that typical of Christians and Christianity's most disgusting and immoral aspect.

If you find "disgusting" and "immoral" that we Christians worshiping Jesus selfless act and what it means, then i guess i have to accept that we agree to disagree.

Peace

a reply to: Seed76

I'm not going to repost Orangetom's ridiculous argument. If you want to understand it, read the GD thread!

What do you mean by "Good guys" ?

Not my words, but Orangetom's!

Was Jesus a "good guy" or not? God said that Job was perfect! How is "perfect" not good? Jesus said that John the Baptist was greater than Job. That's pretty "good" in my book. But, what do I know of "good and evil"? I'm just a child of Adam and Eve!

a reply to: Seed76

If you find "disgusting" and "immoral" that we Christians worshiping Jesus selfless act and what it means, then i guess i have to accept that we agree to disagree.

I find it disgusting and immoral that you worship his death, and that you believe that his death takes away your sins!

a reply to: windword

I find it disgusting and immoral that you worship his death, and that you believe that his death takes away your sins!

What sins ? and why does it bother you ? Jesus death just takes away the "Original Sin" away is not an immunity card. To put it simply after the fall of mankind, mankind was destined to simply die and return to dust, without the chance to ever get reconsiled with God. Jesus death meant the end of that curse. And His resurrection is a promise to those who believe in Him.

Peace

a reply to: Seed76

What sins indeed!

Original sin is not supported anywhere in the Bible except for Paul's version of Christianity, who's pen, Orangetom believes, marks the beginning of the New Testament and the New Covenant with mankind.

To put it simply after the fall of mankind, mankind was destined to simply die and return to dust, without the chance to ever get reconsiled with God.

This is NOT supported by Old Testament scripture.

originally posted by: Prezbo369
a reply to: orangetom1999

Geez another typical and Pitiful attempt at excusing their horrific entity.....might is right, right?
Nothing it does to us could possibly be evil because it made us and it can do whatever it wants with us......the ultimate servitude.

Well stated. The human (as God's *best creation ever!*) becomes/is Gods EXPRESSION of Itself. There is no doubt; God is definitely a Masochist.

originally posted by: Prezbo369
a reply to: orangetom1999

What difference does the actions of mere mortals make to the actions of an all knowing, all powerful, all good etc (/hurl)?
How do the actions of mortals in any way excuse or diminish the actions of a god?
Do christians worship humans? do they put humans on pedestal? Why do christians attempt to excuse genocide and infanticide?

What type of person would do that?....

Well, if you had read orangetom's post he stated many of these (crimes against mankind) atrocities of mass murder were committed by Dictatorial/Totalitarian Communist Atheists. Your belief of a potentially 'murderous' God does not come into play. Your argument falls flat.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: orangetom1999

You're just filling in the "gaps" and substituting the biblical "god" for what you think a "God" should be, all the while ignoring the biblical texts that don't fit within you're fantasy "God's" persona.

Orangetom, you're just making it up as you go along, stretching and shoving facts into little cubby holes to suit you're chosen decor. If it works for you, that's fine, just don't expect others to kowtow to you're twisted reality of "good and evil".

Why do you think the "biblical" God resembles/describes anything close to its actual nature/identity. There are no parallels, not close at all.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

I don't understand your question. I don't believe in that guy in the Old Testament claiming to be the creator of the universe. If he ever did did exist at all, he and his pillar of fire have been run out of town on a rail a long time ago by greater overlords.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Seed76

If you find "disgusting" and "immoral" that we Christians worshiping Jesus selfless act and what it means, then i guess i have to accept that we agree to disagree.

I find it disgusting and immoral that you worship his death, and that you believe that his death takes away your sins!

You know that is not actually possible (its not reasonable). As the 'redeemer' Jesus died for all sins; does that include not only past, but present and future sins committed? If true, every Christian should take advantage of this 'loophole' and go on a state wide crime spree without facing ultimate justice (jail time) in heaven.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: vethumanbeing

I don't understand your question. I don't believe in that guy in the Old Testament claiming to be the creator of the universe. If he ever did did exist at all, he and his pillar of fire have been run out of town on a rail a long time ago by greater overlords.

You mean the question of the 'biblical' God being anything resembling what it truly encompasses? I agree with you THAT lovable fire and brimstone guy in the OT claiming to be the creator is someone I wouldn't trust to clean up after my dogs (probably smite them for being nuisances). That individual is not the AUO (some say its an impersonator-the demiurge). Who do you think the greater overlords are?

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Who do you think the greater overlords are?

The engineers of the solar system, of course! But, even our overlords have overlords. It goes on forever and ever, as 10,000 angels dance on the head of a pin!

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Seed76

windword: What sins indeed! Original sin is not supported anywhere in the Bible except for Paul's version of Christianity, who's pen, Orangetom believes, marks the beginning of the New Testament and the New Covenant with mankind.

Seed76?: To put it simply after the fall of mankind, mankind was destined to simply die and return to dust, without the chance to ever get reconsiled with God.

windword: This is NOT supported by Old Testament scripture.

This is a new one, never heard of it either (if so, I am bowing out of that contract, gracefully). I am fairly certain orangetom is NOT a fan of "Here's my brand new (fake) version of Christianity WARPED" authored by Mr. Paul.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing

VHB:
Who do you think the greater overlords are?

windword: The engineers of the solar system, of course! But, even our overlords have overlords. It goes on forever and ever, as 10,000 angels dance on the head of a pin!

Should have given them a salary increase when demanded (they didn't bother to strike) now they are in full mutiny. There is a plan; if ignored they will begin to fight amongst themselves and there will be a natural attrition rate (fading/forgotten negative numbers).

Problem alert..problem alert...

Windword....

I posted up earlier in this page of this thread....

The Unbelieving position and principle is that God is all loving...all knowing, all powerful...and the source of everything good in the world...love morals etc etc.

Now you posted..

"Unbelievers" don't believe in your God at all, let alone that it is all loving.

and now...by Prezbo 369

What difference does the actions of mere mortals make to the actions of an all knowing, all powerful, all good etc (/hurl)?

Can you two get on the same page here?? To the observant this could cause a lot of confusion.

Now this one by Prezbo 369 is a real thread killer...very telling to those who can think a through a thing...particularly a thing which does not make good nonsense in view of the pablum going on here on this thread.

How do the actions of mortals in any way excuse or diminish the actions of a god?

You have to believe in the existence of a god in order to argue against it. Otherwise you appear to be insane...or in a manner of speaking ...urinating into the wind. Arguing against something you do not believe in...or even exists is a definition of insanity. But it attempts to pass for morality today..even intelligence/illumination !! Wow!!

You two need to get on the same page..or do a better job of it.



One more thing here...this....

Orangetom, you're just making it up as you go along, stretching and shoving facts into little cubby holes to suit you're chosen decor. If it works for you, that's fine, just don't expect others to kowtow to you're twisted reality of "good and evil".

I certainly don't expect you two to "Kowtow " to me or what I Believe. Good Grief...

Do you two believe I am posting all this to or for you two....?? You cannot possibly believe that???

I am posting all this here for those who can still see, hear, and understand. Not for you two. You two are just witnesses to what is going on here.

For I knew from the beginning that this thread would go down this very road. No problem by me..I will sleep well tonight.



For I know that if a change is to be made in any or both of you ..it will not be by my will..but by His will. And furthermore it is none of my business if it happens or does not happen. For Chosen people do not choose..they are chosen..as was Paul on Damascus Road...the very last individual the other Apostles would have ever thought or expected to be converted.

I can tell you two with certainty ..that I am the last person I would have expected to become a Believer...by the very fabric of the life I used to lead. I am not proud of my life today and think it not worthy of Him..but at the same time I know how I used to live and have a kindred spirit with that olde life. But I do not so carry on today. I just find it not profitable to so do.

But for now..what I post is not for you two...but for the Believers out here.

I do hope this helps those who can still see, hear, and understand.


And now my thanks to all for their posts,
Orangetom

originally posted by: Ignatian
Ditto, ditto, ditto. Amen. Facts make some folks squirm, assuming they drop their egos, their preconceived, ignorant notions and actually read what you posted...several times over, as well as the source you quoted. That assumes they're actually here to follow Truth, wherever it leads them. I think we both know thats not the case in most cases. In any case, I hope and pray those seeds of truth germinate and bear fruit.





Excellent posts!! a reply to: orangetom1999

Ahhhh......excellent Ignatian....excellent. I see you caught it..you know the pattern !!

For you use Truth with a capital T...well done...well done. Not lower case..but a capital letter.

And this gives me Hope!!!

Amen..Amen...Amen !!


Yes....we indeed both know....it is not the case...

But I pray on it..continually...and it is up to Him..not us. For it is His increase !! And for His purpose.

Thanks for your post,
Orangetom

a reply to: orangetom1999

Do you think that someone has to believe in the reality of characters in a book or a play in order to discuss their actions and motives?

But for now..what I post is not for you two...but for the Believers out here.

....And, what I post is for readers as well, readers who deserve to hear from the other side of the coin. I think it's destructive and dangerous to teach that there is no goodness in mankind and no goodness on earth, and I'll always argue against such ideology. Besides, It's not supported biblical.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: orangetom1999

Do you think that someone has to believe in the reality of characters in a book or a play in order to discuss their actions and motives?

But for now..what I post is not for you two...but for the Believers out here.

....And, what I post is for readers as well, readers who deserve to hear from the other side of the coin. I think it's destructive and dangerous to teach that there is no goodness in mankind and no goodness on earth, and I'll always argue against such ideology. Besides, It's not supported biblical.

I agree; declaring with/of God given "self determinism and free will" I can proclaim I am a good human.

I believe the times between the Old and New Testament were more about the power structures in place in Israel at the time. It was not possible to spread the word of Christ without an appeasement top the prevailing religious thought. The true spiritual ancesters of the New Testament are the Essene and Neo-Platonic philosophies

originally posted by: orangetom1999

and now...by Prezbo 369

What difference does the actions of mere mortals make to the actions of an all knowing, all powerful, all good etc (/hurl)?

Can you two get on the same page here?? To the observant this could cause a lot of confusion.

All we have in common is our lack of belief in gods.......are you able to digest and comprehend this?

Now this one by Prezbo 369 is a real thread killer...very telling to those who can think a through a thing...particularly a thing which does not make good nonsense in view of the pablum going on here on this thread.

How do the actions of mortals in any way excuse or diminish the actions of a god?

You have to believe in the existence of a god in order to argue against it. Otherwise you appear to be insane...or in a manner of speaking ...urinating into the wind. Arguing against something you do not believe in...or even exists is a definition of insanity. But it attempts to pass for morality today..even intelligence/illumination !! Wow!!

What is being discussed here is the claim made by christians that a god exists, and the actions is apparently carried out.

Why wouldn't someone be able to argue those claims? is this your attempt at shutting down any descending voices?

The fact you dodged the questions completely says everything about the true strength of your 'faith'....

And also:

More fake astonishment.....WOWOWWOWW!!!

p.s. why do people choose to write their name at the end of every single post? seems very narcissistic....