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Christians, are violent old testament verses relevant to your beliefs today?

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posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 07:17 AM
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A quite typical Christian attempt at defending the murderous god they worship, 'look over there! Those guys were much worse than our God!'........failing to grasp that apparently this god is all knowing, super powerful and the source for everything good in the world (love, morals etc), and comparing it to the most barbaric and debased people at that time in history gets them nowhere.

Regardless of who was doing what to whoever 2000 years ago, the god of the bible still carried out some truly evil and disgusting acts, and the fact that people get on their knees and worship this vicious entity in 2015 is a good indication of the biggest problems the world still has.





posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 08:33 AM
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originally posted by: Prezbo369
A quite typical Christian attempt at defending the murderous god they worship, 'look over there! Those guys were much worse than our God!'........failing to grasp that apparently this god is all knowing, super powerful and the source for everything good in the world (love, morals etc), and comparing it to the most barbaric and debased people at that time in history gets them nowhere.

Regardless of who was doing what to whoever 2000 years ago, the god of the bible still carried out some truly evil and disgusting acts, and the fact that people get on their knees and worship this vicious entity in 2015 is a good indication of the biggest problems the world still has.





Wow!! As I stated in my previous post...

Posted by orangetom


You realize that the very history of mankind is a very violent history....from the beginning. And this long before the advent of Christianity. And it continues today ..in times of enlightenment and illumination...educated men running things.



And furthermore...to support the understanding that it is still going on today....under Democide...here..


en.wikipedia.org...




His research shows that the death toll from democide is far greater than the death toll from war. After studying over 8,000 reports of government-caused deaths, Rummel estimates that there have been 262 million victims of democide in the last century. According to his figures, six times as many people have died from the actions of people working for governments than have died in battle.


More people have been killed in the last 100 years by their own governments and at a faster rate than in centuries past thatn have been killed in wars. Yet this information's is totally avoided by the unbelievers here on boards like this one on ATS and elsewhere. They do this with the same olde predictability and pattern..to keep the readers ignorant. They use the Time Warp technique.


You do not have to go that far into history past to note violence. For the last 100 years are the time of intellect, Illumnination, Enlightenment, Science...running things. This is the irony of posts by unbelievers.

And yet the readers is so often left unawares of this pattern going on out here.

None of this kind of material is ever posted by the Unbelievers on these types of boards while spreading their brand of pablum and attempting to put others back in a time warp ...just as did our own President at the prayer breakfast some weeks ago. The Time Warp version of the blame game....which is also so popular in colleges, universities and among politicians and race baiters...as well as the women's movements...is used and misused to keep the reader ignorant of the broad panorama and details of history.

Once you know the bigger picture you become aware of how violent the nations in existence were before Christianity and even before the Ancient Hebrews..they were very violent in their doings among themselves. You also become aware of how violent they still are today..in the last 100 years and continuing.

The totality of what these people and nations were doing back in history cannot be ready for prime time today...no way. It would make playboy and whatever genre is going on today look like kindergarteners...or less.

This is not known by most people and obviously not by the unbelievers out here and their provincial grasp of history.


I am going to offer an extended view and understanding of the history ...so that the readers out here who can still think for themselves can at least get a bigger picture of the ancient world and also todays world...for informations no one wants us to know.

The readers who can still think for themselves deserve to know the bigger picture of history..past and present and not be censored by political correctness and the deliberate pablum it often breeds.


Thanks to all for their posts,
Orangetom

Post Script,


Adding this to my post as a supplement.

When someone attempts to take advantage of you...by your emotions...be very careful..particularly if you know sufficient to realize that they do not know any history or are misrepresenting the Truth.

By this aspect of you not knowing ...they can control you..emotionally by and in your actions. This amounts to a "Shakedown."

If you do not know the history ...or enough details..it is easy to shake you down and get you to believe something which is not true. To get you to vote a certain way for them.

Politicians and race baiters, race haters, and even the women's movements..all taken advantage of by leadership have been using and misusing this template of operation for years. That of not giving you all the details and history. They are betting that they can take advantage of your ignorance and emotions to control you. Particularly for your vote.

BeWarned of this. It happends often here on ATS..and they are counting on your ignorance to get away with it..to Shake you down.

Orangetom
edit on 27-2-2015 by orangetom1999 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 08:33 AM
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Concerning posts like this one here..by Prezbo369,


A quite typical Christian attempt at defending the murderous god they worship, 'look over there! Those guys were much worse than our God!'........failing to grasp that apparently this god is all knowing, super powerful and the source for everything good in the world (love, morals etc), and comparing it to the most barbaric and debased people at that time in history gets them nowhere.

Regardless of who was doing what to whoever 2000 years ago, the god of the bible still carried out some truly evil and disgusting acts, and the fact that people get on their knees and worship this vicious entity in 2015 is a good indication of the biggest problems the world still has.




For this is textbook of many unbelievers on ATS and elsewhere.

What I am going to do is show the readers out here who can still see, hear, and understand ...the very pattern of operation for which to look when reading such posts.

The Christian principle in operation is that God is Sovereign.

The Unbelieving position and principle is that God is all loving...all knowing, all powerful...and the source of everything good in the world...love morals etc etc.

Note this line in particular. For there is a premise here ..taken for granted such that unless you catch it..you will let it go and be caught up in their snare designed to entrap you by default. By your not speaking out concerning it.

Notice what is in the Word itself...God loves His people... God is indeed all knowing, all powerful, and the source of good..His Morals etc etc.

The catch is with unbelievers...that they substitute human reasoning, human emotions,., and human ways by which to pass judgment on God and then also on His People. You as the reader are seldom aware that a substitution has taken place.

The catch is that God loves his people...and also conversely God will also punish His people when they are disobedient. The Word is Full of this example.

The catch for Unbelievers ...which Believers often let default through.. is that Unbelievers try to insert or substitute that all deserve good things from this God and if they don't get them as they believe...they pass judgment on God and His People.

The assumption is that as human beings ..we "deserve" good things. It is just not so. It says that as fallen people we will get it by the sweat of our brow...or forehead we will eat bread...not that we deserve good things...or that God owes us.

The message of the Word is that God is Sovereign..not that God owes us...or that we are good people therefore we deserve. Not so.

This is the premise by which so many unbelievers get over on Believers. And Believers are so ignorantly mislead by them.

What would happen to so many of us ..Believers and unbelievers both if we got what we really deserved??? I think most of us would be shocked...both Believers and unbelievers.

I am often astonished that educated, illuminated , enlightened people of science ..cannot seem to figure this pattern out from the Word itself. But also I am astonished that many Believers themselves do not seem to realize this about the posts of unbelievers.

Once you as a Believer understand and see this pattern in operation ..post after post after post..by unbelievers...you will recognize and see the pattern clearly ....every time they post. It is an assumption and it is not correct.

And as I have stated...our ministers often keep us ignorant of this pattern making us easy prey for such ravening wolves.
We are to check up on our ministers..not just take their word for everything...but check up on them.

For we are the Salt of the earth..not the sugar.

And now you know.

Be warned of this pattern taking place here on ATS and other boards,


Orangetom



edit on 27-2-2015 by orangetom1999 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 09:44 AM
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originally posted by: Prezbo369
A quite typical Christian attempt at defending the murderous god they worship, 'look over there! Those guys were much more murderous than our God!'........failing to grasp that apparently this god is all knowing, super powerful and the source for everything good in the world (love, morals etc), and comparing it to the most barbaric and debased people at that time in history gets them nowhere.

Regardless of who was doing what to whoever 2000 years ago, the god of the bible still carried out some truly evil and disgusting acts, and the fact that people get on their knees and worship this vicious entity in 2015 is a good indication of the biggest problems the world still has.


Pitiful


edit on 27-2-2015 by Prezbo369 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 10:06 AM
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a reply to: orangetom1999

Geez another typical and Pitiful attempt at excusing their horrific entity.....might is right, right?

Nothing it does to us could possibly be evil because it made us and it can do whatever it wants with us......the ultimate servitude.
edit on 27-2-2015 by Prezbo369 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 10:09 AM
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a reply to: orangetom1999




The Unbelieving position and principle is that God is all loving...


"Unbelievers" don't believe in your God at all, let alone that it is all loving. All we can know about the Biblical God is what is written in the Bible, and the Bible portrays this God as a violent, vengeful, wrathful and judgmental God that order his followers to murder, pillage and rape in his name.

"Unbelievers" don't ignore the "evil" that mankind is capable of, they just don't justify their's or buy into other's justification of bad behavior, by invoking a "God" or a "Devil" to shift the blame to.



posted on Feb, 27 2015 @ 05:23 PM
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a reply to: orangetom1999
Thank you for your post; very enlightening and hope it helps others.



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 07:24 AM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: orangetom1999




The Unbelieving position and principle is that God is all loving...


"Unbelievers" don't believe in your God at all, let alone that it is all loving. All we can know about the Biblical God is what is written in the Bible, and the Bible portrays this God as a violent, vengeful, wrathful and judgmental God that order his followers to murder, pillage and rape in his name.

"Unbelievers" don't ignore the "evil" that mankind is capable of, they just don't justify their's or buy into other's justification of bad behavior, by invoking a "God" or a "Devil" to shift the blame to.


Also by Prezbo.369,

a reply to: orangetom1999

Geez another typical and Pitiful attempt at excusing their horrific entity.....might is right, right?

Nothing it does to us could possibly be evil because it made us and it can do whatever it wants with us......the ultimate servitude.



Both of you need to think further than your provincial humanist pablum. I strongly suggest you look at the Soviet Communists and what they did to their people since the October Revolution. How many millions they killed to establish their version of the Great Society...the Communist Utopia. And I am talking here in the last 100 years...the years of science..human reasoning...logic. One need not go back into time warp history to make your points. You can find plenty of examples in recent history...in the anti god nations.

You can also apply this reasoning to the Chinese Communists and what they did to their people in the great purges to clean the nation..and still occurring today. The Millions and millions they killed. Once again in times of science..reason and logic...men of Human Reasoning.

The singular catch to these two examples is that these are dominantly anti Christian nations..anti god nations steeped heavily in human reasoning.

Yet ironically this knowledge and teaching is totally missing from our public educations..totally avoided in order to sanitize and push an anti god position. We are never to realize or understand what the anti god nations have done in times of Science and human reasoning.

Be Warned of human reasoning and science. Particularly as applies to eugenics...or whatever name they are hiding it behind today.

The very method by which you two fail to teach and preach here on this thread..what is missing ..is very telling when one knows the history. For these very socialists and communists/humanists are moving here in the states and into positions of leadership.
And the predictable results of human logic and reason ...will follow.

Thanks to all for their posts,
Orangetom



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 09:07 AM
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a reply to: orangetom1999

What difference does the actions of mere mortals make to the actions of an all knowing, all powerful, all good etc (/hurl)?

How do the actions of mortals in any way excuse or diminish the actions of a god?

Do christians worship humans? do they put humans on pedestal? Why do christians attempt to excuse genocide and infanticide?

What type of person would do that?....



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 10:55 AM
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a reply to: orangetom1999

You're just filling in the "gaps" and substituting the biblical "god" for what you think a "God" should be, all the while ignoring the biblical texts that don't fit within you're fantasy "God's" persona.

Orangetom, you're just making it up as you go along, stretching and shoving facts into little cubby holes to suit you're chosen decor. If it works for you, that's fine, just don't expect others to kowtow to you're twisted reality of "good and evil".



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 11:09 AM
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Ditto, ditto, ditto. Amen. Facts make some folks squirm, assuming they drop their egos, their preconceived, ignorant notions and actually read what you posted...several times over, as well as the source you quoted. That assumes they're actually here to follow Truth, wherever it leads them. I think we both know thats not the case in most cases. In any case, I hope and pray those seeds of truth germinate and bear fruit.





Excellent posts!! a reply to: orangetom1999


edit on 28-2-2015 by Ignatian because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 11:47 AM
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This has a very simple response. Yet, not so simple, as a simple mind cannot grasp complex allegory.

And that's my answer. I play the allegory card when responding to this common conundrum.

Just as I don't believe all creation arose in 7, 24 hour periods, I don't believe your (and many others), premise of a nasty, vengeful, child-killing God. That's theologically sophomoric, in my opinion.

It's allegorical. Sin is no good, get rid of it, and your idols...or else.(there's always a warning). Or else, death. Get rid of the mothers of sin, the fathers of sin, the children of sin. ALL of it, and anyone, or anything associated with it. (The Amalekites deserved it, a nasty lot don't ya think? :-))

Jesus. Dying, he destroyed our death(sin). Rising, he restored our life(God) He destroyed sin. ALL of it. For everyone. Forever. See any connection whatsoever?

I figured you'd pick on the Noah story. God wipes all humanity from the face of the earth, except for a handful. There's a whole bunch of drowned babies in that one too, using earthly, literal logic. What's up with that!?

Or Jonah, he's in the belly of the beast for 3 days. Hmmm, sound familiar? Know what the word Jonah means?

a reply to: rokkuman



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 11:53 AM
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a reply to: Ignatian

So, the Old Testament is all allegory? It never happened? Well, according to Orangetom, the biblical testimony of Jesus Christ is also part of the "Old Testament". I guess you Christians should also take the suggestion of the historical existence of one "Jesus Christ" to be allegorical as well! Indeed, that's the only way Christianity makes any sense anyway!


edit on 28-2-2015 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 12:25 PM
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a reply to: windword


So, the Old Testament is all allegory?


Here that might help you understand the books that are contained in OT.

The books of the Old Testament can be broadly divided into several sections: 1) the first five books or Pentateuch (Torah); 2) the history books telling the history of the Israelites, from their conquest of Canaan to their defeat and exile in Babylon; 3) the poetic and "Wisdom" books dealing, in various forms, with questions of good and evil in the world; 4) and the books of the biblical prophets, warning of the consequences of turning away from God.

Old Testament


Everything I quoted is from the Old Testament, and much of it from the Torah. I have quoted NOTHING from the Talmud. The Talmud is a document from the Christian era. The Old Testament doesn't support Original Sin!


You are aware that there is a "Babylonian" and the "Jerusalem" Talmud right ? If you do not know about it, here is a link that explains the difference between the Two Talmuds.

You are correct that the Babylonian Talmud is much more widely studied than the Jerusalem Talmud. Furthermore, if there is a disagreement between the two talmuds, the halachah (Torah law) follows the Babylonian Talmud.

The Two Talmuds -Questions and answers

Peace



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 12:27 PM
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My honest answer would be, "I don't know, I'm not a biblical scholar". But, I know where to find out!

Your common sense and reason should dictate what is metaphor and what is not in the Bible. If questionable, ask The Church. This holds true for both Old and New Testaments. I suppose some verses are arguable, but most are very plain to see.

In Matthew, hands are cut off, and eyes plucked out. Please don't take that literally. And no, Jesus is not a loaf of bread.



a reply to: windword



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 12:39 PM
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a reply to: Seed76

Tell it to Orangetom! www.abovetopsecret.com...



Posted by Orangetom
What brought in the New Testament is the event of the Cross. This means that as Jesus walked among men and lived with them ..it was Still Olde Testament.


My beef with Orangetom, and his kind, stems from his assertion that there are no "good guys" in the Bible, and indeed his assertion that there is no good in all of humanity. I find that to be typical of Christians and in opposition to the Bible itself, as I have shown.

Orangetom seems to think that the Old Testament is irrelevant, and since Jesus' life and teaching are "technically" Old Testament in Orangetom's world view, the life and teachings of Jesus are irrelevant also. Only his death matters to Orangetom. I find that typical of Christians and Christianity's most disgusting and immoral aspect.


edit on 28-2-2015 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 12:41 PM
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a reply to: Ignatian

Personally, I believe that the entire story of Jesus Christ is metaphor and that Jesus Christ never existed at all.

Jesus the Nazarene is whole 'nother story, that the Bible fails to tell.



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 12:41 PM
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a reply to: Prezbo369

A quite typical Christian attempt at defending the murderous god they worship, 'look over there! Those guys were much worse than our God!'


I do not know if you believe in a Deity. If you do believe in a Deity then you falling to the same category as the ones you are accusing. If however you do not believe in any Deity, then how can you be angry and Judgmental at something that does not exist ? or are you trying to insult his/her beliefs ?

Peace



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 01:12 PM
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Well you'd be in a very small minority there friend. Many many smart people through the years have spent their entire lives studying this in depth, and they would all completely disagree with you. But, it's your path, good luck with that.





a reply to: windword



posted on Feb, 28 2015 @ 01:22 PM
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a reply to: Ignatian




Well you'd be in a very small minority there friend.


Really? I think not. Especially so if you consider the things that make up the title Jesus "Christ"; the virgin birth, the raising of the dead and his own supposed resurrection, walking on water, feeding multitudes with a mere pittance, turning water to wine, etc. Surely these things, that make a man a god, are myths that require faith, and not proven by any facts.

The probabilites of an historic Jesus Christ are nil. The historicity of a mortal man who was a teacher, who lived and died in a natural life, who may have been called Jesus the Nazarene is far more possible. But that history has been buried and NEVER will be proven, one way or the other.


edit on 28-2-2015 by windword because: (no reason given)



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