Christians, are violent old testament verses relevant to your beliefs today?

a reply to: rokkuman

It absolutely does. The O.T foretells of Christ.

The violence has the purpose of preserving the bloodline of Christ and destroying nephilim etc. some stuff I just can't comprehend I admit but to remove anything is to question Gods wisdom and I'm not going to do that.

Of course any non Christian is going to see it at humans being killed and in that respect I understand the sentiment.

Perhaps you could read these things in context And would appreciate not getting the traditional I've read it from cover to cover response.

Obviously secular history has its violence too. Perhaps we could destroy everything because of these two things eh?

originally posted by: drevill
a reply to: rokkuman

It absolutely does. The O.T foretells of Christ.

The violence has the purpose of preserving the bloodline of Christ and destroying nephilim etc. some stuff I just can't comprehend I admit but to remove anything is to question Gods wisdom and I'm not going to do that.

Of course any non Christian is going to see it at humans being killed and in that respect I understand the sentiment.

Perhaps you could read these things in context And would appreciate not getting the traditional I've read it from cover to cover response.

Obviously secular history has its violence too. Perhaps we could destroy everything because of these two things eh?

So as well as genocide, mass rape and infanticide is excusable under the right circumstances for a Christian.......and people wonder why religion concerns atheists...

originally posted by: drevill
a reply to: rokkuman

It absolutely does. The O.T foretells of Christ.

what does the command to slaughter babies and children have anything to do with jesus.

The violence has the purpose of preserving the bloodline of Christ and destroying nephilim etc. some stuff I just can't comprehend I admit but to remove anything is to question Gods wisdom and I'm not going to do that.

so psychologically christianity is as barbaric as christians say islam is because both of you think killing civilians is okay if God ordered it.

Perhaps you could read these things in context And would appreciate not getting the traditional I've read it from cover to cover response.

context = mental gymnastics played by christians to not only justify the bibles violence but also portray it as a "good" thing as seen in here.

also 'context' may matter to a christian who needs to make sense of his religion that teaches 'love thy enemy' while also teaching divinely mandated genocide is a good thing and not to be questioned.

Obviously secular history has its violence too. Perhaps we could destroy everything because of these two things eh?

this is the second time in this thread that someone has actually tried to justify bible brutality by pointing to violence in a secular world.

The question was about the relevance of theO.T in my faith. I answered that.

The violence is a war and you can compare to to any war. When you understand the premise you understand the action.

It will not matter which subject you choose regarding what can be considered atrocious acts because you lack the simple understanding required. If you understand where these people come from and there forefathers, you will understand the reasons. That doesn't mean you have to like it and wish that there had been some other way.

Regards

originally posted by: drevill
a reply to: rokkuman

It absolutely does. The O.T foretells of Christ.

Forgive my ignorance (seeing this all over the dogma forums) WHAT IS AN/THE O.T.?

originally posted by: drevill

The violence is a war and you can compare to to any war. When you understand the premise you understand the action.

so the morality of bible heroes who slaughtered babies is no different from modern day who commit war crimes. ok got it.
but if the butchers of the bible are no different from secular war criminals then there is no reason to hold the bible up as the holy "word of God".

a reply to: rokkuman

Because those who don't believe the bible go to hell. Who wants to go to hell? Best to believe and not question ANYTHING in the bible, it's safer that way.

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: drevill

The violence is a war and you can compare to to any war. When you understand the premise you understand the action.

so the morality of bible heroes who slaughtered babies is no different from modern day who commit war crimes. ok got it. :up
but if the butchers of the bible are no different from secular war criminals then there is no reason to hold the bible up as the holy "word of God".

Bible only? include the Koran as well. Delicate wording needed here; "those that are not of Muslim Faith take another look at and enact a 'Jihad' against those in disbelief; exterminate those that are of (but only including the infidels aka Christians/Jews/Hindus/Buddhists/Shinto and any other belief system that gets in the way). At least Christianity went through a 'reformation' a few centuries back and determined this: "NO PEACE LOVING GOD WOULD ALLOW THE SLAUGHTER OF ITS OWN CREATION IN ITS NAME BY AN UNQUALIFIED HUMAN UNDERLING". ref. "GOD WANTS TO TALK SOME SENSE" 'contents page' 1 first chapter. Pub. Alfred E. Neuman.

The element that is missing, as usual, is the context in which the scriptures were written. For the most part, the rules were novel to the times, and were much less severe than any surrounding nations. For example, stoning for doing wrong is probably a bit better than placing your live infant on the red hot outstretched arms of Molek so that it could roll down into a pit of fire. Stoning during the time of Christ would have been preferred to being crucified by the Romans, I would suppose. Death for disobedience to parents or laws may have been much more severe in local cultures. Also, I would hesitate to label Christians with this past behavior, as it was a Hebrew nation that was required to preserve the words of God that was given these strict laws. The "oracles" of God would have to be preserved for our day, so in a sense we stand in a moment of silence for all those who lost their lives attempting to preserve the Word for those of us today.

a reply to: Jim Scott
Are you are saying "Freedom is not free"; as there is great personal sacrifice given to be so?

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: drevill

The violence is a war and you can compare to to any war. When you understand the premise you understand the action.

so the morality of bible heroes who slaughtered babies is no different from modern day who commit war crimes. ok got it. :up
but if the butchers of the bible are no different from secular war criminals then there is no reason to hold the bible up as the holy "word of God".

Bible only? include the Koran as well. .

I said in the op

While I am most aware of the threat posed by radical Islam its most laughable whenever Christians point fingers at islamic violence. Its a complete pot/kettle moment.

this is thread addresses self righteous christians who point fingers at islamic violence when their own so called holy book advocates genocidal violence and the slaughter of children.

since you brought up koran you might be surprised to know that the koran does not have any instructions to kill women and children thereby making the koran more "peaceful" than the bible.

originally posted by: rokkumanoriginally posted by: veteranhumanbeing
originally posted by: rokkuman

Rokkuman:
While I am most aware of the threat posed by radical Islam its most laughable whenever Christians point fingers at islamic violence. Its a complete pot/kettle moment. This is thread addresses self righteous christians who point fingers at islamic violence when their own so called holy book advocates genocidal violence and the slaughter of children.
since you brought up koran you might be surprised to know that the koran does not have any instructions to kill women and children thereby making the koran more "peaceful" than the bible.

I do not know of any passage in the Bible that calls for the complete 'elimination'/jihadist action upon any/all of those (except women and children) who do not subscribe to Judeo/Christian ideology/tenants. You realize the Koran is teaching this: kill all people who are not Muslims; (except the women and children; as they can easily be flogged into conversion). The Muslims disagree amongst themselves, Kurds, #e's, she-ites, Sunni's killing each other (even though apparently they read the same Koran). I've not heard yet MODERN DAY NOW of Catholics murdering Baptists, Methodists killing Christian Scientists, Lutherans at war with Jehovah Witness's. I cannot speak for the old testament contents of the Bible; but last I heard a "reformation" happened to/within the Christian belief system some years ago.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: rokkuman

Because those who don't believe the bible go to hell. Who wants to go to hell? Best to believe and not question ANYTHING in the bible, it's safer that way.

I don't "believe" in the bible; but respect its poetry and wisdom. I know exactly who I am and the place I am destined for after I drop this physical body; some might need guidance (whether interpreted as practical or completely nonsensical) is all.

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
originally posted by: rokkumanoriginally posted by: veteranhumanbeing
originally posted by: rokkuman

Rokkuman:
While I am most aware of the threat posed by radical Islam its most laughable whenever Christians point fingers at islamic violence. Its a complete pot/kettle moment. This is thread addresses self righteous christians who point fingers at islamic violence when their own so called holy book advocates genocidal violence and the slaughter of children.
since you brought up koran you might be surprised to know that the koran does not have any instructions to kill women and children thereby making the koran more "peaceful" than the bible.

I do not know of any passage in the Bible that calls for the complete 'elimination'/jihadist action upon any/all of those (except women and children) who do not subscribe to Judeo/Christian ideology/tenants.

Then you dont know the bible enough. The bible records God ordering the Israelites to kill the women and children of the enemy who happened to worship someone else.

You realize the Koran is teaching this: kill all people who are not Muslims;

yes. we agree on something!

my point is that the bible is even more violent and so bible reading christians are hypocrites for parading as innocent sheep when in reality their so called holy book is filled with brutality that is not found even in the koran.

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: rokkuman

Because those who don't believe the bible go to hell. Who wants to go to hell? Best to believe and not question ANYTHING in the bible, it's safer that way.

I don't "believe" in the bible; but respect its poetry and wisdom.

really?
whats so poetic and wise about commands to slaughter babies and women and old people? (numbers)
whats so poetic and wise about threats to rub peoples faeces into peoples faces? (malachi)
whats so poetic and wise about describing explicit sexual activities with subtle references to bestiality? (ezekiel)

Nope, I sure don't condemn any of it, nor do I think it should be removed.

I have no idea why God would sometimes choose to tell someone to kill all men women and children of another nation.

However I accept that God knows the future, and I have faith that he was preventing something worse to come. Just like when I was a Child and my parents would tell me to things I did not understand why.
I might ask them "why" I should do it. Sometimes they would tell me and sometimes they wouldn't.
I was not promised an answer by my parents, and in truth it did not matter if I understood why they asked me to do something or not Obedience was what mattered.

Now if I was willing to be a respectful child to my parents, and obey even if I did not always understand why then would I then later opt to not be respectful to God?

In the Bible we see God allow all manner of tribulation in the Book of Revelation, and we also see him step in when it is his perfect time. His Perfect time happens after many many many people die. Why does he wait so long?
I dunno, but again I will trust that he knows something I don't... after all he is God and I am not.

a reply to: Punisher75

Nope, I sure don't condemn any of it, nor do I think it should be removed.

this is exactly why christians are to be considered psychologically as barbaric as radical islamists.

originally posted by: rokkuman
a reply to: Punisher75

Nope, I sure don't condemn any of it, nor do I think it should be removed.

this is exactly why christians are to be considered psychologically as barbaric as radical islamists.

And this was the point of the thread all along, to find a way to insult Christians.
Happy now?

originally posted by: Punisher75

originally posted by: rokkuman
a reply to: Punisher75

Nope, I sure don't condemn any of it, nor do I think it should be removed.

this is exactly why christians are to be considered psychologically as barbaric as radical islamists.

And this was the point of the thread all along, to find a way to insult Christians.

what exactly are we supposed to think of people who do not condemn old testament slaughter of women and children according to you?

it seems that according to christians killing women and children is ok if its done by the guys in the bible.