Was there really an advanced race living before the ice age?

originally posted by: jjkenobi
a reply to: Judgie

I often wonder if people who believe in Evolution also believe there were advanced civilizations before us. To me that is a contradiction. At the very least it would prove science completely wrong on the timeline of human evolution.

There is no evolution without creation, and like all intelligent creations, they evolve.

originally posted by: Shadow Herder

originally posted by: jjkenobi
a reply to: Judgie

I often wonder if people who believe in Evolution also believe there were advanced civilizations before us. To me that is a contradiction. At the very least it would prove science completely wrong on the timeline of human evolution.

There is no evolution without creation. And like all intelligent creations, they evolve.

Creation can mean many things, it doesn't need to be anything mysterious or anything main stream science would scoff at. Things that lack evidence, however, are in the realm of fairy tales.

originally posted by: dr1234

originally posted by: Shadow Herder

originally posted by: jjkenobi
a reply to: Judgie

I often wonder if people who believe in Evolution also believe there were advanced civilizations before us. To me that is a contradiction. At the very least it would prove science completely wrong on the timeline of human evolution.

There is no evolution without creation. And like all intelligent creations, they evolve.

Creation can mean many things, it doesn't need to be anything mysterious or anything main stream science would scoff at. Things that lack evidence, however, are in the realm of fairy tales.

Creation does not need evidence nor does it fall upon any realm of fantasy to the virtuous man.

originally posted by: infinityorder
a reply to: Judgie

Op...humans have made references to this so that it could be passed down as a warning.

Tptb are the "outsiders".....aliens inter dimensional beings...whatever you want to call them.

They fear us.

From the bible..tower of babel story.

"Look at these "men" they are of one tongue and one purpose, there is nothing they seek to achieve they will not accomplish. Let us go amongst them and confound their language and culture to keep them divided."

Tptb have destroyed our civilization many times before.

It is about to happen again, because we are reaching a level of tech and social unity that allows us to be one people again.

They cannot allow this, because we are a true threat because "they" are inferior on many scales to us...just more advanced.

They have to keep us down or be replaced in the universal hegemony by us.

The problem is, they think by making us into stone aged culture again, over and over, they can stop our assent.

However we always come back better and faster than the time before.

The govs of the world found out about this cycle in the 50s.

Hence them working to keep us divided, so as not to put us on their radar, until such a time as we are ready to break out against them.

Hence our tech level not really advancing beyond 1950s tech.

Sure they made the car better but it is still just a car...we know better is possible, but it doesn't exist.

Once we reach a certain level of tech and unity....the end game comes again.

This is why there is so much evidence of advanced tech and building techniques from past ages.

The gov found evidence of this, and know what will happen if "they" see us advance past a certain point.

Until we, as in our civilization can come out the other side, we must appear to be primitive by their standards.

Just my thoughts

The fact that you believe our technology hasn't evolved since the 50's sums up you're thoughts imho, incredibly misinformed.

originally posted by: infinityorder

originally posted by: lonesomerimbaud
a reply to: Judgie

I have to say probably not measuring this by industrial and technological civilization.

I go along with the scientific, primary source based, archaeological evidence that Mesopotamia is the cradle of civilization. Before the ice age we may have got as far as agriculture, but there is absolutely NO evidence of anything other than the very basic stone age tools.

Simple batteries, yes, post ice age, but not flying ships and astronauts.

The pyramids cannot be built with modern tech even...explain how a bronze age civilization did this.

How about in south america where they custom cut diarite(did I spell that right?) That bronze aged cultures could not have done period, and add in the fact they were built with Lego like precision, so they could be stacked together.

It would cost trillions today with modern tech to make cuts this precise.

There is no mainstream explanation, because it defies explanation of modern day science for a "bronze aged civilization".

They were obviously much more advanced than we give them credit for.

There is no other rational explanation.

The pyramids can't be built with modern tech? How blatantly wrong can one statement be? You're pushing the limits of absurdity, you think modern can't pile rocks on top of one and another?

originally posted by: Judgie
Because as soon as this becomes common knowledge, people will start trying to emulate the ancient technologies. Such as Ed Leedskalnin did to build coral castle. His model of electricity and magnetism is far different from those taught at schools but there are simple experiments that can be done at home which simply cannot be explained by our modern electrical theory for instance.
Very soon after this knowledge becomes public, free energy will be re-discovered, anti gravity too. This will very soon turn into a free energy, fuel free world. Transportation will be faster and free and it won't break down etc because it will operate in a much simpler way, oddly just like UFO technology appears to. Though I am no expert on UFO theories.
This technology, topples the worlds monopolies. They can't cover up free energy if everyone has it and knows how to use it etc.
The powers that be lose their strangle hold on society and they do not want this. They have known this for a very long time and thus have stared us away from this purposely to their own profit.

Our model of electricity has allowed to type such nonsense and have others read it freely, it poked and prodded day in and night out and holds up. Which model do you refer to, btw? Electomagnetism? Quantum mechanics? Particle physics? You have no idea how scrutinized, tested, retested, reported on, scrutinized some more, refined, etc, etc, these ideas are until the model fits the data. What experiments can be done at home do you reference? Utter bull#, every word of it.

originally posted by: dr1234

originally posted by: infinityorder

originally posted by: lonesomerimbaud
a reply to: Judgie

I have to say probably not measuring this by industrial and technological civilization.

I go along with the scientific, primary source based, archaeological evidence that Mesopotamia is the cradle of civilization. Before the ice age we may have got as far as agriculture, but there is absolutely NO evidence of anything other than the very basic stone age tools.

Simple batteries, yes, post ice age, but not flying ships and astronauts.

The pyramids cannot be built with modern tech even...explain how a bronze age civilization did this.

How about in south america where they custom cut diarite(did I spell that right?) That bronze aged cultures could not have done period, and add in the fact they were built with Lego like precision, so they could be stacked together.

It would cost trillions today with modern tech to make cuts this precise.

There is no mainstream explanation, because it defies explanation of modern day science for a "bronze aged civilization".

They were obviously much more advanced than we give them credit for.

There is no other rational explanation.

The pyramids can't be built with modern tech? How blatantly wrong can one statement be? You're pushing the limits of absurdity, you think modern can't pile rocks on top of one and another?

There is no denying that some of the cutting methods, movement and placing of megalithic proportions couple with precision and obvious understanding of masonry, hydraulics, acoustic and astronomical knowledge that no doubt took 10s of thousands of years to acquire such knowledge which predates common conventional accepted theories.

As far as modern man being able to build like the ancients did it would lean the question as to WHY would we build such difficult long lasting structures? Why would our ancestors go through unimaginable tasks to build such difficult yet wondrous structures?

a reply to: hudsonhawk69

Thank you for that piece of information, you have my attention. My second book, which I havn't began writing is going to be all about stories like that and why they are never heard.

originally posted by: Shadow Herder

originally posted by: dr1234

originally posted by: infinityorder

originally posted by: lonesomerimbaud
a reply to: Judgie

I have to say probably not measuring this by industrial and technological civilization.

I go along with the scientific, primary source based, archaeological evidence that Mesopotamia is the cradle of civilization. Before the ice age we may have got as far as agriculture, but there is absolutely NO evidence of anything other than the very basic stone age tools.

Simple batteries, yes, post ice age, but not flying ships and astronauts.

The pyramids cannot be built with modern tech even...explain how a bronze age civilization did this.

How about in south america where they custom cut diarite(did I spell that right?) That bronze aged cultures could not have done period, and add in the fact they were built with Lego like precision, so they could be stacked together.

It would cost trillions today with modern tech to make cuts this precise.

There is no mainstream explanation, because it defies explanation of modern day science for a "bronze aged civilization".

They were obviously much more advanced than we give them credit for.

There is no other rational explanation.

The pyramids can't be built with modern tech? How blatantly wrong can one statement be? You're pushing the limits of absurdity, you think modern can't pile rocks on top of one and another?

There is no denying that some of the cutting methods, movement and placing of megalithic proportions couple with precision and obvious understanding of masonry, hydraulics, acoustic and astronomical knowledge that no doubt took 10s of thousands of years to acquire such knowledge which predates common conventional accepted theories.

As far as modern man being able to build like the ancients did it would lean the question as to WHY would we build such difficult long lasting structures? Why would our ancestors go through unimaginable tasks to build such difficult yet wondrous structures?

Who knows, because they had crazy religious beleifs motivating them clouding rational thinking? I was addressing an absurd statement, not wondering why they did anything.

a reply to: dr1234

Who knows, because they had crazy religious beleifs motivating them clouding rational thinking? I was addressing an absurd statement, not wondering why they did anything.

You were voicing a very silly perspective on the situation. Stacking stones on top of each other? Really? You use derogatory words all the time. "absurd statement" even though your opinion has not been proven at all. You have not despite how big your head is, built a pyramid. In fact I don't know anyone who has. The most recent megalithic construction was built by Ed Leedskalnin who is now dead and thus cannot tell us how he did it. Your belief that this is all possible without modern tools is astounding. So can you please, since you seem to be an expert obviously, explain to me how the church of St George in Ethiopia was built and dated? Monolithic temples and churches? Come on think this through, for a moment. How they somehow carved out the inside through the doors and windows, while giving it a smooth finish. This btw is granite.
Have we the ability to do this today? If so show me how.

originally posted by: Judgie

The most recent megalithic construction was built by Ed Leedskalnin who is now dead and thus cannot tell us how he did it.

Sure, if you want to ignore the photos of him using a block and tackle rig with a tripod and a little bit of basic physics.

Your belief that this is all possible without modern tools is astounding.

No more astounding than your incredulousness.

So can you please, since you seem to be an expert obviously, explain to me how the church of St George in Ethiopia was built and dated? Monolithic temples and churches? Come on think this through, for a moment. How they somehow carved out the inside through the doors and windows, while giving it a smooth finish. This btw is granite.
Have we the ability to do this today? If so show me how.

Since YOU are such an expert, why is it that you don't even have the most basic of facts straight before you go oozing steam like a tea kettle? The Church of St. George is absolutely not carved from Granite. It is in fact carved from Tufa, a form of Limestone. Not that Limestone is a soft rock but it had been worked by human hands for thousands of years by the time the 11 churches of Lalibela were constructed. I'm not trying to take away from the magnificence of the structures but 700 years ago, carving and cutting limestone was a pretty basic feat for masons and not indicative of any superior ancient skills or otherworldly origins.

The construction of the church involved excavating a free-standing block of stone out of the bed-rock and then removing all the waste material from around it. The stone masons then carefully chiseled away the church outline, shaping both the exterior and interior of the building as they went. They fashioned a simple yet exceptionally beautiful cruciform structure approximately 12 m high.

a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

So my dream of a Klingon Ziggurat house IS POSSIBLE?
I am quiie happy here.

originally posted by: Judgie
So can you please, since you seem to be an expert obviously, explain to me how the church of St George in Ethiopia was built and dated? Monolithic temples and churches? Come on think this through, for a moment. How they somehow carved out the inside through the doors and windows, while giving it a smooth finish. This btw is granite.
Have we the ability to do this today? If so show me how.

See, here's the deal...I DO know the expert on the site, and if you want to contact him, u2u me and I'll give you his name & email. Here's a hint...he was the only sane person on the Ancient Aliens episode regarding the churches, and I'm sure has never lived it down. But more germane to the discussion, this merely illustrates the fact that there is generally an expert, who is generally eager to talk about their passion. And that's where research starts. With what is known.

a reply to: peter vlar

I apologize, I made a mistake on the building material there, I genuinely believed it to be granite for some reason, none the less that explanation is sub par.

Even if the church of St George is a softer material, consider the hiccup you have the moment you get to the internals of the building. You have a window to enter into and so you start carving a cave. You are blind inside this cave. You alone can work in this cave because you only have the space to get through the window. Now to complete all the internals to flat planar edges is in my opinion unachievable.
Im not saying its impossible, you could possibly create some sort of navigation system for when you are caving your way inside so you don't go out a wall by mistake. But you are carving rock with hand tools while doing this!
Try to contemplate for a moment the gravity of this whole job. It would take a thousand years to finish this, why would you even start? You, your grandchildren, their grandchildren would never see the completion of this project. Then look at the finish on it, its not messed up one bit including the corners. They're perfect.

Oh and Ed Leedskalnin, and his chain hoist. Bahahaha if you havn't figured that out yet please learn about why the chain hoist would not work. Its really simple math so I think you might be able to solve this one.

a reply to: Judgie


with this information: ...

The last ice age ended some 12,000 years ago (depending on several variables)
and had lasted for some 100,000 years prior to the end.
There were several "interstadials" or periods of time when the ice retreated but these did not last long,...

~yahoo answers~

It is my belief that our present day legends, myths of a highly advanced civilization...perhaps Atlantis ?...
had It's beginning prior to the last Ice-Age of 112,000 years before present...

the mini continent of Greenland, which completely destroyed all the industry of that civilization by way of the same processes we see taking place today.... volcano's, lava, sinkholes, huge land fissures & land/sea floor spreading, glaciers have all combined to eradicate the high technology of the Atlantis Era and make Greenland a chaotic, unstable landmass unsuitable for any permanent populations that can take the lead in world progress


the learned and academic populations of the torn-apart Atlantis of +112,000 years ago spread all over the planet, and the knowledge and training they had 'went-to-sleep' all during the Ice-Age period of +100,000 years but the fables/tales/myths/and various accounts of 'god like persons' became the Sumerian/Egyptian/Greek/Roman/Nordic/Indian/Oriental... Pantheons-of-Gods as the Atlantian traditions tried to bloom after 100 Millennia of 'darkness'



at least that's how I account for Humanities collective memory, which is filled with gaps, errors but has a barely discernable arrow-of-time progression of history wrapped up in hidden code/myth/Valhalla's

the Vril and other occult powers are not nonsense, the eternal Ice-Fire cycle is also very real...and not just fanciful stories or fairytales...

we are at a threshold, either an Atlantian redux or a 7th century dark-age redux is our immediate future stargate


thanks for your attention

originally posted by: Judgie
a reply to: dr1234

Who knows, because they had crazy religious beleifs motivating them clouding rational thinking? I was addressing an absurd statement, not wondering why they did anything.

You were voicing a very silly perspective on the situation. Stacking stones on top of each other? Really? You use derogatory words all the time. "absurd statement" even though your opinion has not been proven at all. You have not despite how big your head is, built a pyramid. In fact I don't know anyone who has. The most recent megalithic construction was built by Ed Leedskalnin who is now dead and thus cannot tell us how he did it. Your belief that this is all possible without modern tools is astounding. So can you please, since you seem to be an expert obviously, explain to me how the church of St George in Ethiopia was built and dated? Monolithic temples and churches? Come on think this through, for a moment. How they somehow carved out the inside through the doors and windows, while giving it a smooth finish. This btw is granite.
Have we the ability to do this today? If so show me how.

You're pushing the limits of stupidity. Just because I can not personally build a pyramid doesn't mean mankind as whole doesn't have the means to do it. With today's technology it is really a basic matter of stacking stones on top of one and other. I never said anything about the impressiveness of doing it without modern technology, you're simply attacking a strawman.

A simple google search shows your ignorance..

www.archdaily.com...

OP... this video is a good place to start. New archaeological evidence shows that the history of humanity is much older than previously thought. Humans populated the entire globe shortly after leaving Africa. Contrary to what some archaeology "experts" would have you believe.

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

The Younger Dryas extinction event, about 12.6 thousand years ago narrowed the human population to less than 20,000 individuals, according to Genetic studies. The cause for YD extinction event is unknown, but I personally think it was a "nuclear winter"....

Recent studies have shown that the amount of C14 (radioactive Carbon) dramatically increased in the atmosphere and Oceans.

a steep rise in the concentration of atmospheric radiocarbon at the onset of the interval, recorded primarily in the Cariaco Basin, has been difficult to reconcile with simulations of the Younger Dryas carbon cycle

Source

Since about 1955, thermonuclear tests have added considerably to the C14 atmospheric reservoir. This C14 is 'artificial' or 'bomb' C14, produced because nuclear bombs produce a huge thermal neutron flux. The effect of this has been to almost double the amount of C14 activity in terrestrial carbon bearing materials

Source

The sharp increase in C14 at the onset of the Younger Dryas cooling period may be the direct result of Thermonuclear detonations. There is other evidences of this as well...

originally posted by: Blarneystoner
The sharp increase in C14 at the onset of the Younger Dryas cooling period may be the direct result of Thermonuclear detonations. There is other evidences of this as well...

Sure. Why not.

originally posted by: Blarneystoner
OP... this video is a good place to start. New archaeological evidence shows that the history of humanity is much older than previously thought. Humans populated the entire globe shortly after leaving Africa. Contrary to what some archaeology "experts" would have you believe.

Which Archaeologists or Anthropologists state this? It's pretty widely accepted that a mass exodus out of Africa occurred at roughly the same time period as the Toba catastrophe(~ 70 KYA ) with HSS populating nearly the entire world with the exception of the America's within a few tens of thousands of years post Toba.

The Younger Dryas extinction event, about 12.6 thousand years ago narrowed the human population to less than 20,000 individuals, according to Genetic studies. The cause for YD extinction event is unknown, but I personally think it was a "nuclear winter"....

I think you're confusing the YD event with the Toba event. The Toba even(~69 KYA-~77 KYA) is indeed genetically linked with a bottleneck in human populations worldwide. Essentially every living human today is descended from 3-10,000 breeding pair of HSS. The YD Impact had a more localized effect, predominantly affecting the Western Hemisphere and is a likely candidate for the loss of mega fauna in North America ~ 12,900 BP. It did not however, have a noticeable impact on human populations. At least not in terms of numbers. It is somewhat linked to the end of Clovis Culture but even that is up for debate. The Toba event is one of the largest documented volcanic eruptions that we are currently aware of in all of Earth's history. It is postulated that due to the amount of material ejected into the upper atmosphere, there was the equivalent of a nuclear winter that lasted 6-10 years and led to a millennium long cooling event as documented in tree ring and ice core samples. That doesn't mean it was the result of an actual nuclear event though.

Recent studies have shown that the amount of C14 (radioactive Carbon) dramatically increased in the atmosphere and Oceans.

I think "dramatically" might be a bit melodramatic but yes, since the advent of nuclear weapons and atmospheric testing of them, the ratios of 14c have increased. This is why the old yardstick for 14c dating was based on wood samples from 1890, prior to nuclear proliferation.

The sharp increase in C14 at the onset of the Younger Dryas cooling period may be the direct result of Thermonuclear detonations. There is other evidences of this as well...

It would be irrational for me to say its absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt possible that this happened but there isn't any actual evidence for this being true. There was a paper published in 2001 that addresses the issue of v14C(v14Catm) and the likely overestimated amounts. The "sharp increase" as you call it was based on what is believed to be the impact site at Cariaco basin. However when compared to other contemporaneous sites it would appear that the 14c increases were as localized as everything else tied in with the hypothesized impact event. In other words, it was not world wide nor was it a sharp increase in v14C(v14Catm). But please, by all means... if you can demonstrate these other evidences, I'm certainly willing to entertain the notion and see where the mystery leads.

When i think about the existence of advanced civilization in the long past. All we have left are faint or clues of their prime. like the obelisk in Karna, their hieroglyph looks like its been made from a machine. Or the stone wall or rooms in ruins at South america or Egypt. was made of granite and how they could work with such impressive detail and precision, even our famed masons say they are impressive and they know how hard to work on stone that literally require a diamond drill or some advanced technique and some where quite heavy. Something our construction vehicle barely can do. Yet our archaeologist wonder how and where are the tools?

Then i started to think in different way. What if, Something made them leave and they made sure they took all whats belonged to them and left the planet for some reason we cannot fathom or comprehend it. It would be strange to see a civilization leave our planet in hurry. So all whats left was the stone and figurines who were left for future like us to find and ponder.

I came to conclusion that those advanced civilization or race was not native to this wondrous world. But mere a colony and colonies tend to be in a sense nomadic. They must have faced something that made them leave. It could be a political reason or simply someone else didn't want them at our planet. Kinda makes you wonder why they did allot to cover up their existence or "the someone else" makes sure their "legacy" did not carry fruit of their time at the Earth.

I am a firm believer that our dearest mother earth has its secrets and we are not the first. We may be the first that grows and expand over entire planet, or not.

There are still many things at the earth that gives us more question then answer. like some spots, there are some radiations that may be due a nuclear bomb,well according to ancient text and books.

I got the admit that we humans are going in a perilous future from what i see in the news, books and doomsayers. But i have hope we will overcome this.

Now i said from my opinion and views.
Sincerely yours