Ukraine accuses Russia of terrorism

a reply to: noeltrotsky

Are you so "actual argument deficient" that you must resort directly to ad hominem attacks?

Regarding its illegitimacy, I say this because of their total lack of acceptance of democracy (overthrowing am elected government) and rule of law (refusing to acknowledge the will of the people to secede).

To my first point: it is, by definition, an illegitimate government. It was imposed AFTER a coup, with elections administered by the coup imposed authorities. Because the rightfully elected government was removed by force (illegal) and a new government came into power (also illegal). Logic my friend, logic.

Second is simple: The real, elected government is illegally removed via use of force. Said new government won't recognize votes nor the will of the people they do not represent. Therefore, they are not a democratic government nor the government that carries out the will of its people.

If your country's government was overthrown, with new authorities elected under controls of the terrorists who overthrew it, what would you do? You specifically, how would you react to this? You'd be up in arms, at least in the USA we would be.

Ahem

a reply to: all2human

Russia does not recognize Ukraine government:

Yes they do...

Putin Indicates He’ll Respect Result of Ukrainian Election

www.nytimes.com...

a reply to: tsurfer2000h
If you actually read the article:
Mr. Putin stopped short of saying he would recognize the vote as legitimate, and reiterated his assertion that the government in the capital, Kiev, which is organizing the vote, had usurped the power of President Victor F. Yanukovych in a coup

a reply to: JBurns

It was imposed AFTER a coup, with elections administered by the coup imposed authorities.

Except the fact that Yanukovych fled from an impeachment that his own parliament, and party were in the process of.

Now once he fled the country he vacated his duties of president, so an interim president took over until elections could be held which is what happened and it follows the Ukraine law.

The real, elected government is illegally removed via use of force.

Who forced him out, as he ran from impeachment for his corruption, he didn't have to run he could have stayed and proved his innocence yet he didn't, why do you think that was?

. Therefore, they are not a democratic government nor the government that carriers,out the will of its people.

Well then the prior government wasn't very democratic, and they didn't carry out the will of the people...which was Ukraine joining the EU.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h
Not quite, but close.

Mr. Putin stopped short of saying he would recognize the vote as legitimate, and reiterated his assertion that the government in the capital, Kiev, which is organizing the vote, had usurped the power of President Victor F. Yanukovych in a coup. The election will not represent a “general national mandate,” he said.
But Russia will “respect the choice of the Ukrainian people,” Mr. Putin said. “We understand and see that people in Ukraine want to get out of this situation.” On the direct question of whether Russia will accept the outcome, Mr. Putin said, “We will watch what will happen.”

From the same source.
Respecting and recognizing are two different animals.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
RT - Russia recognizes Ukraine poll despite violations, doubts

TASS - Russia recognizes Ukraine parliamentary election — Ivanov

Yahoo - Russia to recognize Ukraine election results: Lavrov

Since Russia recognizes the Ukrainian government your accusation is without foundation. It also means the constant use of the term "junta" is without merit as well.

Russia also recognized the 2012 Ukraine elections. That is important because it was those elected officials who voted to impeach Yanukovych.

Please explain to us how the government in Ukraine is illegitimate?

Apparently this needs to be re-posted because people are still refusing to 'Deny Ignorance' like their tagline suggests....

a reply to: noeltrotsky

Well there we go. That should end this thread.

a reply to: superman2012

We're going to Hell in a Handbasket fast in this thread!

originally posted by: all2human
Russia does not recognize Ukraine government:

Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev told Western nations that they were mistaken in recognizing new leaders in Kyiv www.dw.de...

Russia does recognize the Ukraine government. Your source is dated Feb 2014 where as the ones I posted are dated Oct 2014.

a reply to: noeltrotsky

Who cares what Russia recognizes?

Typical, you failed to counter any of my recently given points.

The fact is that PEOPLE IN UKRAINE...the ONLY people's opinion that matters in this..do NOT recognize it. By the virtue of them splitting into autonomous republics.

You can deny intelligence and logic, Trotsky, but cannot deny the will of the people who DO NOT recognize it. Ergo, when the governed stops recognizing the government, it becomes illigimate. You need a history lesson. And apparently a primer on democracy.

a reply to: noeltrotsky

You continue to show your ignorance by offering diversion over discussion. You again fall back to personal attacks to compensate for your own failure of intellectual aspirations.

a reply to: JBurns

The Ukrainian people do accept it being they were the ones who voted them into office. As my post shows Russia also recognizes the Ukrainian government.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Tell that to the people dying to protect their homes from this new government.

Evidently, the people of Crimea, Donetsk and Lugansk also disagree with you.

a reply to: all2human

Page not found.. Can you fix the link.

Secondly 2 of my sources are Russian and one is western and all 3 report the same.

I have a proposed debate regarding the topic open for several days.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Then again, you won't accept the challenge because it takes a tad more than personal attacks and disillusioned comments to win one of those

If you're so convinced of your point, that's great. Lets hold a TRUE debate. Without personal attacks and insults. I know you may not be used to that type of conversation (based on these replies...), but arguing with fact isn't as bad as it sounds.

a reply to: JBurns

The remainder of the planet, the UN, the OSCE and Ukrainians don't agree with you. If they did there would have been no reason for Russia to invade Ukraine nor would there have been a need to send Russians to incite the violence in east / south Ukraine.

If you check who the leaders were in those 2 provinces you will see they are Russian and former Russian military.

a reply to: Xcathdra
rt.com...
"doubts of its legitimacy"
news.yahoo.com...
"Taking everything into account, this election took place, though not on all of Ukraine's territory,"

a reply to: Xcathdra
And the parliament was US backed, what's your point? My debate challenge covers all of this. You seem very intelligent and passionate - lets have a structured debate. www.abovetopsecret.com...

and 25% believes the Sun rotates around Earth (google for the article), since when do we listen to "what xxx thinks"? Draw your own conclusions. MSM lies.

Not everyone in those 3 regions are ex Russian military. I'm sure the same can be said about the Ukies.,The people are the only ones who count.

Also, have you ever considered Russia may have recognized them in order to facilitate negotiations? Negotiations its been pursuing, yet continually rejected by UA "leaders."

originally posted by: all2human
rt.com...
"doubts of its legitimacy"

Yet still recognized. Its the same source I just posted and the headline is the giveaway -

Russia recognizes Ukraine poll despite violations, doubts

originally posted by: all2human
news.yahoo.com...
"Taking everything into account, this election took place, though not on all of Ukraine's territory,"

You linked to the generic yahoo page.

As for all of Ukraine's territory that's an interesting yet failing argument. The rebels refused to allow the vote to occur in their controlled areas. The same holds true for occupied Crimea.

You don't get to boycott the vote then bitch about people not being included.

The government is recognized by Russia.