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originally posted by: bbracken677
a reply to: mc_squared
The period you mention ended...you know what happened at the end, right?
50 million years ago was when the current ice age began.
The transition from a warming climate into a cooling climate began at ~49 million years ago. Isotopes of carbon and oxygen indicate a shift to a global cooling climate. The cause of the cooling has been attributed to a significant decrease of >2000 ppm in atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations.
Yes, I am a geologist. Do you actually know what geologists do?
originally posted by: WeAre0ne
I can't believe people think there is still a debate. Let me make it clear...
It's a scientific fact that rising CO2 levels will increase temperature. It can be demonstrated in a lab.
Since a couple of years, the temperature have not rised a lot,
Why the increase in ice at the Antarctic?
Skeptic arguments that Antarctica is gaining ice frequently hinge on an error of omission, namely ignoring the difference between land ice and sea ice.
In glaciology and particularly with respect to Antarctic ice, not all things are created equal. Let us consider the following differences. Antarctic land ice is the ice which has accumulated over thousands of years on the Antarctica landmass itself through snowfall. This land ice therefore is actually stored ocean water that once fell as precipitation. Sea ice in Antarctica is quite different as it is ice which forms in salt water primarily during the winter months. When land ice melts and flows into the oceans global sea levels rise on average; when sea ice melts sea levels do not change measurably.
In Antarctica, sea ice grows quite extensively during winter but nearly completely melts away during the summer (Figure 1). That is where the important difference between Antarctic and Arctic sea ice exists as much of the Arctic's sea ice lasts all the year round. During the winter months it increases and before decreasing during the summer months, but an ice cover does in fact remain in the North which includes quite a bit of ice from previous years (Figure 1). Essentially Arctic sea ice is more important for the earth's energy balance because when it increasingly melts, more sunlight is absorbed by the oceans whereas Antarctic sea ice normally melts each summer leaving the earth's energy balance largely unchanged.
So the warming cause cooling... Sorry but I don't buy that!
And what about the increased albedo of this increased ice surface? Is it not a negative feedback?
originally posted by: marg6043
The goal of the profiteers when it comes to Global warming is one and only one.
Read my lips They don't give a crap about global warming, the next ice age, (that one will come before the global warming) pollution, population or the littler children and animals
They only care about how to concoct another scheme to involved the entire financial world system to create a Ponzi scam for the benefit of the Banking system.
originally posted by: bbracken677
originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: bbracken677
The vast majority, yes. But lets say you're right. Let's say that CO2 levels are rising because temperatures are rising. What's causing temperatures to rise? Is the Sun getting hotter? How much?
Given that in past interglacial periods carbon has risen along with temperature, and yet we are led to believe that ALL the increase since industrialization is attributable to man.
I have much respect to you, Phage, based on numerous other posts, but this is just plain disappointing.
It is a given that as temperatures rise, co2 levels also rise due to our oceans storing co2 when cooling and then releasing co2 when warming. This is not an hypothesis, this is a fact. Quite verifiable.
originally posted by: Deharg
What utter garbage,
The only place that any excess water in the atmosphere can influence the global average temperature (whatever that is supposed to mean) is in the troposphere where according to the hypothesis ( not yet a theory that requires imperial evidence I.e. Not models) this increased water vapour provides a forcing factor to increase the energy retention ( you got something right at least) already increased by the higher level of carbon dioxide.
Now carbon dioxide increasing will increase the energy of a system this is basic physics, what the warmers don't like and hence have to introduce the forcing from water and clouds ( which aren't handled well by the models btw) is that the relationship is logarithmic NOT linear. We have already had 0.8 degrees in the past 150 years so another doubling will produce not much more .ie. the more carbon dioxide the less warming each doubling produces NOT more ......this is again simple physics and not in dispute.
Almost exactly half of the carbon dioxide put into the air by our burning of fossil fuels is absorbed by the ocean. Carbon dioxide dissolves in cold water near the Arctic and Antarctic. When the cold water sinks deep into the ocean in winter, it carries the carbon dioxide away from the atmosphere. Many years later, the water is gradually pulled closer to the sea surface by mixing in the ocean. When it gets to the surface in warm areas it releases the carbon dioxide back to the air. This process allows the ocean to store great quantities of carbon dioxide for many centuries. We call this the physical pump that takes carbon dioxide out of the air.
Thus burning of fossil fuels is a source of CO2 and the ocean is a sink of CO2.
Today, the average pCO2 of the atmosphere is ~7 ppm higher than the global ocean pCO2. This small air–sea difference, when spread across the entire surface of the ocean, is sufficient to account for the oceanic uptake of anthropogenic CO2.
However, as water temperature increases, its ability dissolve CO2 decreases. Global warming is expected to reduce the ocean’s ability to absorb CO2, leaving more in the atmosphere…which will lead to even higher temperatures.
There's some delusion that otherwise smart people have that there is some "gotcha"---- "One weird trick oceanographers hate!" --- that they, genius in service to the world, has figured out that all of the scientists never thought of or tested.
originally posted by: Entreri06
You couldn't get 97% of the worlds scientific community to lie..... It's a math issue really. Co2 holds more heat then O2 or nitrogen. So more CO2= more heat. Every year has gotten hotter then the last. It's insane to think adding elements to our planets "system" won't have an effect.
It's crazy to think all the worlds science communities are in a vast conspiracy to pass a carbon tax in America...
Now saying that a carbon tax won't help and will be squandered and stolen is 100% fair probubally 100% accurate!!!
But that doesn't change the math.... Nor does it change the massive conspiracy it would take to fool 97% of the worlds scientists.
We Americans always think we are so special. Aka all the worlds media outlets are in a massive conspiracy to discredit American conservatism and Fox News... It's laughable.
So every other time the temps have gone up or down have been "natural" ?