'Christianophobia,' Anti-Christian Hostility Infects Powerful Elite Subculture

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: grandmakdw

If you looked hard enough, you would find someone,

if you look hard enough, you will ALWAYS find someone who disagrees with your interpretation. thats an awfully strange thing to find in a religion based on one, perfect, absolute truth.

This is true of any belief system.

Don't know why you are so angry about it.

Christians are just people, people who make mistakes, people who interpret the same event/words in different ways, based on their culture, their family and their personal experiences.

Write any one philosophical statement you believe to be a perfect absolute truth, post it here on ATS and just watch it be torn to shreds. Each person, each human being will color the statement from their own world view and personal experience. That is true of Christians, Muslims, Republicans, Democrats, Atheists, Agnostics, and on and on.

If you are looking for imperfect people, a Church and Christianity is a great place to start. That is the main reason for Christianity, to help those who are hurting and those who want to be better (whatever your personal definition is).
Because after all Christians are human beings, just like you.

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
How can a person proclaim,

COEXIST, when there are those they hate on their coexist list.

I believe this is aimed at me as you have an issue with me and are convinced that I hate Christians. But I don't hate anyone. You are mistaken.

originally posted by: [post=18942062]windword

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: grandmakdw

Deuteronomy 17
If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

Your quote is from the Old Testament

I said before and I'll say it again

the New Testament

did away with things like this

and replaced it with a doctrine

of loving one another

and caring for one another

and forgiving one another


Jesus commanded his followers to love, to not judge,
and actually stopped the stoning of a person caught in adultery

You are thinking that Christians follow every word in the Old Testament as what they must do, that is not what Christianity teaches. It teaches that many of the things in the old testament are to be done away with; and replaced with love, kindness, generosity, forgiveness.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Trust me, it happens within smaller interactions that aren't publicized. I have participated in many of those conversations/confrontations. I personally have no direct power on the world stage, but my hope is that the ones who have the public eye will stand up for what is right. Many of us urge those who are leaders to do the right thing. The ones who don't have the public eye do what they can in their circles, and hope the ripple takes effect. In other words, we do what we can where we are.

What seems obvious to me is that the massive right-wing propaganda machine has gone into identity politics overdrive. What better way to pump up the base than by pushing the fear of a powerful "they" whose only goal is the destruction of every aspect of the base's way of life?

Gay people getting married? Gay people want to mock your God and destroy your religion!

Health insurance paying for contraception? Whores want you to fund their sin and worse, make you accomplices to murder so that they can drag you to hell with them!

Religion is just one facet of the 'destroying America' supermeme. It's easy to frame any topic so that the opposing political position becomes an attack. It's not that identity politics is new or that propagandists on the left don't also engage in identity politics but over the last decade or so, the type of toxic rhetoric once popular only within the fringe has found its way into mainstream right-wing media.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
And exactly how do they do that? Waterboarding?



originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
And exactly how do they do that? Waterboarding?

No. That was our government and one of the reasons some of these people in Muslim countries are so hostile toward ANY Americans.

The idea of Christians waterboarding Muslims as a way of forcing them to accept Christianity is clearly preposterously ludicrous. Of course it was the military who created that quagmire.

The missionaries practice Christianity, build churches, evangelize, convert people and have religious services in countries where all of that is illegal.

Most of those churches are now Arab-Christian churches, run by Arabs, not typically American missionaries any longer, as they are not traveling to the Middle East in the numbers they have previously.

They do not have religious freedom like we do.

Uh, no joke.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ladyinwaiting

I think its more a juxtaposition of values. They see the invading threat as primarily Christian, grow to dislike the way of life of the invading threat, then juxtapose those values onto all Christians, even the ones that already lived in the country with them. I mean can you blame them when the President who started this whole "War on Terror" said this?

I don't think so. I think they see it as more government/military infractions on them, and not so much
Christianity. Seems to me, the militant groups are more into fighting for their Islamic beliefs and political ideologies, than opposing and fighting against Christianity, per se.

If that were the case, they would be threatening to blow up the Vatican, and behead the Pope, rather than the White House and the President.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
What seems obvious to me is that the massive right-wing propaganda machine has gone into identity politics overdrive. What better way to pump up the base than by pushing the fear of a powerful "they" whose only goal is the destruction of every aspect of the base's way of life?

Gay people getting married? Gay people want to mock your God and destroy your religion!

Health insurance paying for contraception? Whores want you to fund their sin and worse, make you accomplices to murder so that they can drag you to hell with them!

Religion is just one facet of the 'destroying America' supermeme. It's easy to frame any topic so that the opposing political position becomes an attack. It's not that identity politics is new or that propagandists on the left don't also engage in identity politics but over the last decade or so, the type of toxic rhetoric once popular only within the fringe has found its way into mainstream right-wing media.

This is so demonstrative of how different people can view the same events (writings/sayings)
but see them from their own cultural bias.

I agree with all you have said, except would replace the words right-wing with the words left-wing in your post.

Seems the elite may be trying to play us all, by playing on our deepest core values and trying
to destroy cohesion
by playing on our worst fears
and are so good at the propaganda
that we each see the same thing from an opposite perspective.

We are all being played,
destroying religion is at the core of what the Elite want.
They want us to worship, well, them, so they can
continue to live lives of luxury while pretending
to care about equality ......
They want us to all equally serve their needs and wants
and call that equality for all,
except the leaders of course.

True equality would be for the Elites to
want to serve us,
they pretend to want this,
but their actions and lifestyles
say the opposite.

Am I being judgmental here?
Yep, I am a totally imperfect Christian
who is not blind to what is going on in the world.

a reply to: Blackmarketeer

Guten Tag-


Brad, did You meet Mr. Hammer?

Nailed it!!!

The funny thing is that Christians weren't even fed to lions in the first place.
books.google.com...=onepage&q=christ ians%20colosseum&f=false
It's just a myth. Seems as though christians have been imagining persecution and making up stories of oppression for millennia.

a reply to: grandmakdw

You are thinking that Christians follow every word in the Old Testament as what they must do, that is not what Christianity teaches. It teaches that many of the things in the old testament are to be done away with; and replaced with love, kindness, generosity, forgiveness.

it is odd that the loudest christians should preach much the opposite. it is even odder than no true christians speak even more loudly against them.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

You are NOT a dirty heathen, what an awful thing to say.

I did not think that, nor would I ever say such a heinous thing.

People who have a different set of ideas and beliefs than I do are just people.

They are equal to me in all respects and I must respect their ideas and beliefs,
that is a core part of my personal belief system and how I interpret the words
of Jesus to me.

Just because you think differently than me, makes you no better or worse than me, just different,
and so what? I don't care if you think differently than I do or have a different belief system or no belief system. I respect your beliefs and ideas, guess I just make an assumption that others will respect mine.

Please don't attribute to me thoughts that I don't have just because you think that because I am a Christian I would even think or say such horrid things.

a reply to: TzarChasm

I give up on "conversing" with you. You obviously have hatred in your heart for Christians

I respect that and will stop trying to reason with you.

No matter what I say, you will twist it into something ugly that I don't mean at all. That is your right on ATS and I'll respect that.

I thought I've made it loud and clear that hatred for others is something I abhor in Christians as does Jesus. There is nothing more I can say that you will hear.

So have a good day, a good month, a good year.

originally posted by: NotTooHappy
The funny thing is that Christians weren't even fed to lions in the first place.
books.google.com...=onepage&q=christ ians%20colosseum&f=false
It's just a myth. Seems as though christians have been imagining persecution and making up stories of oppression for millennia.

I dont think the christians being killed over seas, and in some cases even crucified, and those being put in prison for their faith would agree with you

a reply to: theantediluvian

Certainly one of the best posts on this subject.

In my personal opinion, it's not Christians themselves (the people practicing Christianity) that I have a problem with at all.

In fact, I was one for 30 years and my mother was the best Christian I've ever known. She was filled with the love of God for everyone. She found something good about each person she ever met and never pointed out what she considered their sins, flaws or shortcomings, as SO many do today. In fact, she would politely admonished anyone who would "speak down" on others, gently reminding them that Jesus loves us all - as his children - and that we must find the reflection of that love in everyone, not point out their faults and shun them. Instead, today, in the name of religion, people are refusing others service, denying them equal rights, and separating certain whorish people from the protection of government healthcare, for not fitting some standard of what they think a good Christian should be.

Those have NOTHING to do with the practice of Christianity, as I know it.

These are the people who I take issue with. The ones you describe in your post, who have taken it upon themselves to use their political power to strong-arm those who don't believe as they do, into BEHAVING according to their beliefs. And because they do it in the name of religion, the religion gets blamed. Just like the Muslim religion gets blamed for the extremists of their religious faction.

It's two sides of the same coin. Yes, the "Christians" (right wing) don't behead people, they punish them in subtler ways. Like refusing to treat them equally, denying them the joy of marriage (however they wish to define it), and refusing to allow the government to cover basic healthcare for women. All because they judge these people as sinners and worthy of a punishment that they are willing to inflict. It's not as bad as beheading. Well, good for you. How generous. But it's not "practicing Christianity" either.

And I feel this way about everyone who, in the name of their religion, votes to use law to punish or correct those they consider sinners.

a reply to: grandmakdw

I give up on "conversing" with you. You obviously have hatred in your heart for Christians

i waste no time on hatred. it is an ugly and poisonous emotion. what i do have is concern for the emotional well being of our species as a whole, and how it is taxed by the regular political, economic and social exploitation of spirituality. i express this concern by critiquing the tripe regularly submitted by a diverse community that all share one thing in common: they spread ignorance. but more importantly, they spread fear.

this is where we deny it.

I respect that and will stop trying to reason with you.

No matter what I say, you will twist it into something ugly that I don't mean at all. That is your right on ATS and I'll respect that.

i respect your right to make that decision. my only point was that in the event the shepherd is a sham, the flock should take care of it and not just float over to another shepherd. even if only by speaking the true word just as loudly as he defiles it. let good men not stay silent when the dragon roars.

and for the record, you strike me as good model for christians everywhere.

originally posted by: grandmakdw
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

You are NOT a dirty heathen, what an awful thing to say.

I did not think that, nor would I ever say such a heinous thing.

People who have a different set of ideas and beliefs than I do are just people.

They are equal to me in all respects and I must respect their ideas and beliefs,
that is a core part of my personal belief system and how I interpret the words
of Jesus to me.

Just because you think differently than me, makes you no better or worse than me, just different,
and so what? I don't care if you think differently than I do or have a different belief system or no belief system. I respect your beliefs and ideas, guess I just make an assumption that others will respect mine.

Please don't attribute to me thoughts that I don't have just because you think that because I am a Christian I would even think or say such horrid things.

I apologize if you took my "dirty heathen" remark as my assuming you think I am such. I wear the "dirty heathen" badge as kind of humorous nod to my fellow atheists who have been called that and worse several times. You are a very kind and metered Christian, the sort of Christian I respect. Please take my wholehearted apology.

a reply to: Stormdancer777

There comes a time when you just have to get rid of the "hate".

I'm certainly trying.

But that's why I can't post much anymore.

Too much hate going on lately.

Peace.

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
Most of those churches are now Arab-Christian churches, run by Arabs, not typically American missionaries any longer, as they are not traveling to the Middle East in the numbers they have previously.

Thank you for reminding me of that. There are a lot of "homegrown" Christians there. And it illustrates the number one reason we should be hell-bent on keeping our country under secular law, that protects religious freedom, and not allowing a Theocracy. A lot of the politicians on the right are so entrenched in this Christian extremism of the right wing, that it's pretty clear where this country's going if it's allowed to continue.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
Most of those churches are now Arab-Christian churches, run by Arabs, not typically American missionaries any longer, as they are not traveling to the Middle East in the numbers they have previously.

Thank you for reminding me of that. There are a lot of "homegrown" Christians there. And it illustrates the number one reason we should be hell-bent on keeping our country under secular law, that protects religious freedom, and not allowing a Theocracy. A lot of the politicians on the right are so entrenched in this Christian extremism of the right wing, that it's pretty clear where this country's going if it's allowed to continue.

A good start would be removing the words "In God We Trust" from U.S. money and "Under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance. These were added during the Cold War and are an affront to the U.S. assertion of separation of church and state.