It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
originally posted by: Aleister
a reply to: hellobruce
Humans need to eat meat? Not from where I'm sitting. Did you know that the Brahmin class of India don't eat meat? That many of your favorite actors and singers don't eat meat? Mohandas Gandhi and James Bevel changed their countries and the entire world while not eating meat. Eating meat is so 19th Century. Time to move forward and help to save the forests, prairies and oceans from the destruction that it's caused.
originally posted by: AkaDeDrow
lol, photosynthesis would be nice, but I'm not so sure I'd look good in it :-P
will we then need to force our choices and "morality" on our pets, companion "animals" etc, to make them "vegans" as well ? I don't consider myself better or more important than any of them, maybe a little more advanced than some, but not so far evolved to place my worth above them, Dolphins actually use more of their brains at once than we do.
The thing is, we as a species have evolved to eat what we need to to survive long enough to reproduce, for some, meat, Real meat, may be a necessity, do many people know what happens to a house cat on a vegan / vegetarian diet ?
It Dies.
It Must have meat, or it will die.
There's nothing wrong with eating meat, there's everything wrong when it comes to cruelty, waste and greed.
originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
Many are saying its not immoral to kill something when we dont need to kill it, we simply want to kill it so that makes it a moral action.
I would say that if we cant see that what our society is doing wrong then we can never make changes to improve it.
originally posted by: burdman30ott6
originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
Many are saying its not immoral to kill something when we dont need to kill it, we simply want to kill it so that makes it a moral action.
I would say that if we cant see that what our society is doing wrong then we can never make changes to improve it.
...and I would say "Who made you the moral compass of mankind?" The majority of humanity eats meat.
news.therawfoodworld.com...
5% of America identifies as vegetarian or vegan... Majority defines social morality, not minority.
Also, animals don't have 'rights' as they are incapable of being self aware of those rights. This argument, for what it's worth, has been used extensively to support the legality of abortion... identifying the right to life as being intrinsically connected to the ability to plan and manipulate one's own future. Aside from (possibly) great apes and dolphins, not many animal have that skill and no food animals possess it.
If you're uncomfortable with eating animals, I'd suggest you continue to eat your fake meat, wear your pleather shoes, and do what you personally must do to follow your personal moral code and leave everyone else to their own destiny.
Doing bad things to animals like killing them is considered wrong by many, for example you dont just go around murdering animals because it would be immoral to do so, why because they have a right to life just like everyone else. If you killed someones pet you may face jail time because its wrong to kill that animal, if you were nice to someones pet you would be praised by thier owners as having done a good deed. Killing anything is considered an evil, but it is an evil that must be done out of need, thats where the morality comes in, if we dont need to do it.
originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: FormOfTheLord
Ah, but any discussion regarding morality immediately does become about the participants in the discussion once thresholds are crossed and an opening statement which portrays any action as being amoral, or setting the table for as much, is made. You are making a contention that the morality of eating meat is connected to the presence of "reasonable" (to you) alternatives. THAT made you a topical point of discussion here.
I'm saying the theory of the OP is woefully flawed from the get-go.
1. Consuming meat is not immoral per the voices of the majority. Anyone who goes against the majority in regards to morals is waving a dangerous banner. Consider this: what if someone made an OP which stated marrying your own sister was moral? How do you debate that when it is a subjective declaration of fringe morality concepts?
2. These alternatives may taste very good and be perfectly acceptable to you... that does not mean someone else is going to enjoy them or find them acceptable. And yes, many people will absolutely be able to tell the difference. Using myself as an example, I grew up in a ranching and hunting family... I go through long stretches where I won't eat it unless I killed it, butchered it, and processed it myself. Think somebody who has spent their entire life elbow deep in blood, steaks, fillets, and home ground meats isn't going to immediately know when a burger is made from black beans and tofu? I'm not even going to wander down the "that stuff tastes like ass" road... because it honestly doesn't. It's tasty, sure, but it is not meat! I buy the habanero black bean burgers at CostCo every now and again and I will throw one of the patties onto a bun with a slab of grilled halibut or a grilled caribou patty because the two go well together.
3. This:
Doing bad things to animals like killing them is considered wrong by many, for example you dont just go around murdering animals because it would be immoral to do so, why because they have a right to life just like everyone else. If you killed someones pet you may face jail time because its wrong to kill that animal, if you were nice to someones pet you would be praised by thier owners as having done a good deed. Killing anything is considered an evil, but it is an evil that must be done out of need, thats where the morality comes in, if we dont need to do it.
leaves a lot to be desired...
a. "Murder" involves the death of a HUMAN BEING. It is patently disingenuous to use it when discussing killing, slaughtering, or otherwise physically incapacitating an animal.
b. I don't go around randomly killing animals unless I am also processing them for meat and/or hides because it is wastefull and UNETHICAL. Morals have no play here aside from it being morally wrong to waste food.
c. It is illegal to kill someone's pets because it is destruction of their property, not because it is an animal involved... at least that is the historical context of the law in regards to killing animals which do not belong to you.
d. Killing isn't evil in and of itself, and that includes killing another human being. It is all about the why, not about the what. If a woman kills a man attempting to rape her, she has certainly not committed an evil act. If a man kills a deer to feed his family, he has committed no evil.
e. Again, YOU are making this about YOU with statements such as "if we don't need it." YOU don't need to kill animals, WONDERFUL! Walk the Earth with your personal morality code fulfilled and happy, but don't lump others in with you. While YOU may very well not need to eat the flesh of an animal, there are scores of people across even America who look to meat for dietary requirements, religious requirements/practices, cultural norms, economic opportunities, and just plain old personal tastes.
originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
its wrong to kill animals period.
originally posted by: hellobruce
originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
its wrong to kill animals period.
No it is not, what is wrong is killing poor innocent plants....
originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
Its an evil we allow to our corporations and hunters to continue on the pastime of eating meat and hunting animals for sport.
originally posted by: burdman30ott6
originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
Its an evil we allow to our corporations and hunters to continue on the pastime of eating meat and hunting animals for sport.
I'm tired of playing "I'm not touching you!" "Mom, she's touching me!" with you, so I'm not going to both with re-rebutting your first three scratched vynyl comments. Been there, done that...
To the sentence I quoted above, however... We are guided by largely secular laws and cultural norms, 'evil' is a religious concept, totally misplaced in any discussion related to anyone not directly referring to them self. Apply it to others and it is prostyletizing nonsense. If we lose this secular structure we become freaking ISIS... And nobody wants that.
Oh, and hunters evil? OK, Hail Satan!
originally posted by: saadad
OP says he gains weight like everyone else. Mate ur wrong. U will never be fat ill like those animal eaters.
If lion can survive only on grass he would never eat meat. That why you don't see cows eating meat.
And it is proven humans can survive on plants only based food.
If you don't care about ethics. Care about your health. Meat in my country is 100 times healthier than in USA, yet I stop eating it and it changed my life. But that just me, I m on the higher road.
One guy in topic see satisfaction in eating bacon, I see satisfaction at not eating anything for 24h . it is obvious we are not the same person. He would never be me anh he will never know me, but I was him and I know that person.
originally posted by: boymonkey74
I wish the op would comment on what I havevasked him twice now.
Of we all stopped eating meat would this be good for cows pigs etc? They are doing well as a species at the moment. Do you not understand if we stopped we would not keep the millions of them around would we.
You would only see them in zoos eventually.
originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: FormOfTheLord
Dodge the question then.
I think it is moral to help the species continue to thrive.
If we all stopped eating meat tmr there would not be many of them in a year or two.
Why would we continue wasting valuable resources on the millions of animals we just wouldn't need?.