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The Immorality Of Eating Meat When There Are Vegi Alternatives Do People Care?

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posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 12:04 PM
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a reply to: Bedlam

No lol, that's my whole day's food. Smoothie is only ~800 calories. But there's coconut cream in there for sure, hence the fat.

Who says veggies can't get ya plump?




posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 12:06 PM
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originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
There is no reason to not respect anothers right to life, especially if its just because you want to eat them for protien, go get some kale add a bit of olive oil add a oinch of salt and bake it till its crispy and youve got some kale chips full of protien lol.


Now you're dragging around that kale on your karmatic chain. And the olives. At 2.9g per cup, you are going to need a lot of kale chips. Eat up.



Bedlams point is animals eat other animals so that makes eating anything just fine even if you have an alternative, which makes no sense in a moral arena of need vs want.


You're taking up a lot of territory that animals could live on. You are fostering behaviors that are destroying animal habitat with your computer and your vehicles and your houses, your fresh water, your sanitation. All of it takes away from animals and makes them suffer. There is but one solution. Remove yourself. It's the only way.



Now to pants yes I think a way should be made that we dont need to kill them as well either, 3d print our food at an atomic level and this would no longer be a problem.


That day will not arrive.



As to karma I think we have infinate lives, animal lives too, and it would be a special kind of tortuous hell to be born as an animal and eaten by our society, but the wheel of birth and death must turn I wouldnt be suprised if that karma came back on each and every one of us in some form or another.


Ah. So it's a special kind of tortuous hell if you're eaten by a human - not if you're eaten by a cat or Fido? Interesting.



I think of it as this way, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction at some point in time and space. So who knows we may be feasting on our other lives corpses in various forms. . . .


Physics doesn't apply to woo, so this doesn't really matter.



I could only hope that in heaven and I do believe in heaven there will be no animals slaughter for people as a food source, no more pointless suffering for anything.


I have it on good authority that I'll be dining at the endless feast in Valhalla, so there will be lots of meat and ale. Such as you won't even be fit as a turnspit dog, but they might find use for you washing tureens out back.



posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 12:08 PM
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originally posted by: framedragged

Who says veggies can't get ya plump?


I cook with a bit of coconut oil, if the food will go with the taste.



posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 12:12 PM
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Everybody hates everybody else's morality when it means they have to change their own preferred way of life to live that way.

A common refrain is "stop shoving your morality down my throat." I believe that applies here. I'm glad you think you have now found "the way, the truth, and the light" but you are evangelizing and position as obnoxiously as any Evangelical Christian ever has. You might as well be telling those of us who don't agree with you that we are going straight to hell. It doesn't tend to work for Evangelicals although they honestly don't care much of the time. So why do you expect it to work here?



posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 12:17 PM
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a reply to: Aleister


It takes only a moment in a lifetime to realize that other animals are alive as you are. That's a turning point, that touch of empathy, and then the next step is realizing that "Ah, people? There's a corpse on my plate. Can anyone come and take it away please, and put some food on there instead." That takes awhile longer. Those who get there are, imnho, very lucky indeed.

You sound a lot like me. I was definitely a meat eater - and I would be still if it wasn't for one story that I saw on the news

I saw everything differently after I realized the role that I played in that particular story

I think what a lot of people don't understand is that while eating meat may be natural, the way we produce meat these days is anything but

I hate these threads - I really do. They bring out the worst in people. Meanwhile the abuse continues



posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 12:28 PM
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a reply to: tothetenthpower


But I buy from people who treat animals the same way our ancestors did. With respect.


This is the wave of the future - going back to our past

Supporting cruelty free alternatives is the only way. These smaller farms are a wonderful thing - time we give them a shot at coming back. We can't always change the enormous money making machines by talking ethics. We can change a lot of things with how we choose spend our money



posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 12:28 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Frankly I think the biggest issue is that most people are completely disconnected from where their food comes from. People don't know that butter is made from milk or that eggs come from chickenslink . I know that this is a story about British teenagers, but I can assure you that most people really don't have a grasp on what qualifies as dairy or meat. Endlessly, "Can you eat butter? What about eggs? Are fish ok?"

It's not that I get offended or something, it's just weird to me. I imagine that if a lot of people had to perform their own animal husbandry they'd be a lot less gun ho about meat. Obviously not everyone, but I think there's a reason that many people shutdown and enter "# you" mode when you bring up animal slaughter videos. Not even the super duper secret spy ones. Just the ones that show day to day normal operations.

But hey, at least rendering plants really nailed that Native American sentiment of use the whole animal lol.
edit on 1-2-2015 by framedragged because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 12:34 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

It's not the same as preaching a faith though

I think the OP has taken a lot of abuse for how he chose to present his views - he or she might have gone about it a little differently. I understand his feelings though - and the fervor - and the attempt at appealing to people's emotions and sense of right and wrong. There's really nowhere else to go with this kind of thing

When you consider what the OP actually about, you can see it's not about forcing a faith - it's about stopping actual cruelty in real life

Just sayin'

It's interesting how this subject (like many others) turns into a contest of wills. Most people love animals. Most people would object to seeing an animal abused, much less participating in that abuse. But - if you make this about right and wrong and threaten a supply of something people feel entitled to - all that goes out the window

Morality, ethics - philosophy - all of it is flexible and conditional
edit on 2/1/2015 by Spiramirabilis because: always - words...



posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 12:35 PM
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a reply to: Bedlam

Mix in some peanut oil and tongue burning spices and bring Southeast Asia right into your kitchen lol.



posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 12:42 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Ah so when they stampeded entire herds off of cliffs, that was ethical slaughter practice and treating them with respect?



posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 12:45 PM
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a reply to: framedragged

My dad was a naturalist - and he grew up hunting. Everything about my childhood revolved around nature and reality

I saw first hand where meat comes from and had no problem with any of that. Still don't

Many who take a position against the animal rights crowd want to make a nature is cruel argument. Those are just words. Nature is brutal - but not cruel. Nature does what's necessary. Survival is what determines any of that and we are as natural as any other creature

Except - that we have taken up morality. How huge a discussion is that then? We are animals, but we want to play around with the idea of right and wrong. We are very interesting creatures we humans

And - since we do think about things, and wonder about right and wrong - we can be cruel


Obviously not everyone, but I think there's a reason that many people shutdown and enter "# you" mode when you bring up animal slaughter videos. Not even the super duper secret spy ones. Just the ones that show day to day normal operations.


Denial is what the industry is counting on. Many people think animal rights activists are crazy. If they actually saw how we make bacon - from birth to slaughter - there would be a revolt


edit on 2/1/2015 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 12:45 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

It is when you start making it a position of "my way is the only moral way" which is how the op presented it. It is every bit as irritating as the evangelical of any position who tells you that his or her way is the only real way to do something and you better do it that way or you are damned and a horrible, terrible person who eats babies, kicks small puppies and any other terrible thing you can imagine.

This is how it has been presented. And let's not present the endless, circular kafkatrap about how we only eat meat because we icky meat addicts. Do you not see how any hope you have to present any kind of argument in your favor is forever tainted by that kind of behavior?

But what am I saying? I am going to meat-eater hell ... this vegetarians on this thread have already spoken. Thus, I am no longer really listening.



posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 12:49 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko


Ah so when they stampeded entire herds off of cliffs, that was ethical slaughter practice and treating them with respect?

They? What does that statement have to do - with anything?

So, you're going to attack Native Americans in an effort to prove - what? That it's OK for us to abuse our food animals because, hey guess what - Indians were mean?

I'm trying to have a genuine conversation here ketsuko. With you - if you're up for it

That was both childish - and nonsensical



posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 12:52 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko



This is how it has been presented. And let's not present the endless, circular kafkatrap about how we only eat meat because we icky meat addicts. Do you not see how any hope you have to present any kind of argument in your favor is forever tainted by that kind of behavior?

You want to be angry at me - but you're not replying to what I've been saying. You should vent at the OP I think


But what am I saying? I am going to meat-eater hell ... this vegetarians on this thread have already spoken. Thus, I am no longer really listening.


The OP presented it one way - this is true. I said I understand his position - and I do. I wouldn't have made the argument the same way, but it doesn't require much of an effort to see what he's trying to do here

You disagree - well, OK then

You kind of make my point for me ketsuko - I made what I thought was a thoughtful reply. This is not one of those subjects where people can step back and have a meaningful conversation I guess

At least - not all of us


edit on 2/1/2015 by Spiramirabilis because: context...



posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 01:17 PM
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originally posted by: framedragged
I imagine that if a lot of people had to perform their own animal husbandry they'd be a lot less gun ho about meat. Obviously not everyone...


Heh.



...but I think there's a reason that many people shutdown and enter "# you" mode when you bring up animal slaughter videos. Not even the super duper secret spy ones. Just the ones that show day to day normal operations.


You have to be in a weird frame of mind to watch them with proper appreciation. Mind you, I think you could butcher animals with a bit more kindness than generally happens,but for the sort I could convert to food around the farm, I tried never to let them know it was coming until they woke up on the Rainbow Bridge, if you know what I mean. The factory line butchering doesn't work that way.

You can't do cows yourself unless you've put a lot of money into butchering the occasional cow. I can do up to a big deer here, and we never had pigs. But the guy that did our cows would get ours ready to go, calm them down, a bit of patting and bam! shot to the head. They didn't have time to know they were about to buy it, and he never let them see, smell or hear the one that went before so they weren't worked up or afraid prior.

Two small heifers or one grass fed cow would do us the year, if hunting was good. Fish, chickens, eggs, the odd bit of venison and a couple of veggie days a week and it's all you need. The goats were for milk or pets.



But hey, at least rendering plants really nailed that Native American sentiment of use the whole animal lol.


Well, you see, that's pink meat right there. You've a moral obligation to eat that McD's if you're going to use the whole animal.

I'm a bit ambivalent on that. I don't believe in wasting any of it you can use, we even used to tan deerhide if you got a good one, and that's a miserable chore. But for battery hens, those things ate recycled/rendered chickens all their lives. Now, you input some pesticides and herbicides into that loop, the chickens eat it and store it plus god knows what in terms of heavy metals in their fat, livers and feathers, then you render the fat, skin and feathers back into chicken feed, so it loops back over and over.

I'm actually surprised they don't glow in the dark without any genetic mods.

Ours foraged two to three seasons a year, we had a small millet field they would rummage in along with the guineas and quail, and they helped keep the gardens and yard free of bugs, and the scuppernongs and muscadine vines cleared as far as they (and the dogs, oddly) could reach. So they were what I would guess passes for organic except for their oyster shell and scratch feed they got for treats.

It's the only chickens I'd eat the livers of. Can you imagine what's in battery chicken livers?


edit on 1-2-2015 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 01:22 PM
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originally posted by: framedragged
a reply to: Bedlam

Mix in some peanut oil and tongue burning spices and bring Southeast Asia right into your kitchen lol.


I do...along with some nice chicken and fish. Haven't worked up to making my own Thai fish sauce. The old lady says she can't imagine how I eat that as is, it smells good to me but she says it smells like cat food and pepper.



posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 02:20 PM
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It's only immoral to eat meat if you didn't kill it yourself.



posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 02:21 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis




If we agree that eating meat is not immoral, do you think we might finally be able to discuss how abusing animals is immoral?


I addressed that in my previous comment. But I will reiterate:

The abusive practices involving animals in slaughter houses is immoral. This is why I do not purchase meat from corporate supermarkets and only go the organic route or eat only what I kill myself. The latter is an activity I usually employ when travelling to second world nations where options are limited. There is a limit to how much sustenance a mango can provide to remain healthy. Again, if people had to kill; skin; gut; etc. there own meat; most people will be planting more gardens instead.




When people make comments like this they kind of give their hand away


I spend a lot of time in parts of the world where the food choices are not as abundant as they are in first world nations, therefore, due to my innate will to survive and remain healthy in order to fulfill what I am there for, I will eat what best serves my body at the time. Some days, I am stuck eating strictly vegetarian in those parts of the world.

I am more concerned with human lives and human suffering than I am about animal rights. As someone mentioned earlier in this post: This vegetarianism debate is petty rich nation's problems. Go visit some of these second and third world countries for yourself. Go look these people in eye and preach your gospel about only eating vegetables.

Did I just give my hand away again? Or are you just trying to get my goat?



posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 02:43 PM
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a reply to: Involutionist


The abusive practices involving animals in slaughter houses is immoral. This is why I do not purchase meat from corporate supermarkets and only go the organic route or eat only what I kill myself.


That's all I'm saying

the rest - is just all of us having a pissing contest


I am more concerned with human lives and human suffering than I am about animal rights. As someone mentioned earlier in this post: This vegetarianism debate is petty rich nation's problems. Go visit some of these second and third world countries for yourself. Go look these people in eye and preach your gospel about only eating vegetables.


Compassion is compassion. Right and wrong are for you conditional - and on a sliding scale. You'll do the right thing - but only if you can also dismiss the people who agree with you as some kind of imposition

Interesting - and political



posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 03:01 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis




Compassion is compassion. Right and wrong are for you conditional - and on a sliding scale. You'll do the right thing - but only if you can also dismiss the people who agree with you as some kind of imposition

Interesting - and political


Of course it is, but you are speaking to someone who has not only witnessed cows being slaughtered with my own eyes, but also people as well. Anybody can go on the internet and see what a man's face looks like after taking a bullet right in the middle of the face, but I can tell you what that smells like...unfortunately.

Right and wrong for me is indeed conditional. It is for most of us who have seen s*** with our very own eyes and breathed some of it in.

Very interesting and political indeed....on your part.

Must be nice to judge from the safety or your own home; yeah?

I just left my door open...come kick it down so I can really tie this conversation up. Go on...poke me one more time.



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