The Immorality Of Eating Meat When There Are Vegi Alternatives Do People Care?

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

sure it does.

is it moral to feed unnatural "food" to your children? Do we know the long term health effects on all body types from eating so much soy? What about the problems it creates with hormones? What about my youngest son, who cannot eat soy? Would he be immoral for having a different body chemistry?

What about all the wheat gluten....know anyone with celiac disease? Wheat gluten can kill them.

No, technology does not provide alternatives. And given our track record with technological solutions and their health impact....ill abstain. Because as it stands, it is also considered "nutritious" to eat McDonalds.

RE: a place in a discussion on morals and ethics....you cannot gauge the morality of a being behaving like beings on that planet behave. As said earlier, if its illegal for me to eat an animal, it is immoral for an animal to eat an animal. Its not like we are outsiders here on this planet. We are part of it.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

also

EGG WHITES, COOKED BROWN RICE

Since when is Egg vegan? Now not only is he killing an animal hes killing baby animals for every one of his "veggie" patties.......

Oh the laughable hypocrisy

originally posted by: Krakatoa
a reply to: akushla99

What are these facts you speak of? (citations needed for it to be a real fact)

Found anything about methane production and greenhouse gases in relation to the OP?

If you have, please share it...

I found 10 in 15 seconds...

Å99

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: Krakatoa
a reply to: akushla99

What are these facts you speak of? (citations needed for it to be a real fact)

Found anything about methane production and greenhouse gases in relation to the OP?

If you have, please share it...

I found 10 in 15 seconds...

Å99

and...who cares? This has been going on since time immortal. Can you actually point out a report that has actual scientific proof that mankind in a mere two hundred years has had a significant impact on the environment compared to millennium of the same crap happening regardless of mankind?

Go hide in the closet for all the good it'll do ya!

a reply to: TDawgRex

Dont you know man?

The dinosaurs didnt die from a meteor.......it was Methane from the dinosaur farts......

originally posted by: pheonix358
I wish the OP would answer the question, where is the line he wants to draw.



We could all switch our protein intake to insects, but then, is that wrong too.



In other countries, insects are a major source of protein and they are yummy, apparently!



I get the feeling he doesn't want us to eat cows, sheep and pigs.



Are lizards and snakes OK?



Where oh where is the mystical line where morality takes a jump to the left.



Sadly though, the OP remains silent on this issue.



P

To be honest I wish you would post on topic to morality and ethics of eating meat when there are alternatives which is the OP of this thread.

As human beings we consider ourselves to have morals and ethics to our actions and deem some actions to morally justified while other actions to be denied and we consider them unjustified.
But the moral line is where we make it as individuals, everyones moral line is different, we have different thoughts on what is right and what is wrong.

If you have an alternative created within your society which doesnt cause suffering and you feel its a more moral choice its up to you to choose that alternative or not.

I am not drawing any lines for anyone but myself but I am provoking a moral based discussion based on the ethics of is it right or wrong to slaughter animals if we dont need to.

There is the golden rule I think of in morality do unto other as you would have others do onto you, and makes me think if we encountered a more advanced group of humans or ETs that wanted to eat us because they could and we taste like bacon how immoral some of us might feel about that, I consider it similar to an animals point of view at our mercy.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

yeah, i missed that.

I think the crux of the question is: should we destroy that which lives so that we may live, if we have a viable option otherwise.

Because plant life is life. Eggs are life. Fish are life. Plankton is life. Eating a fruit is the same as eating an egg, if we put aside the ego induced belief that plant life is less valuable than animal life.

and we still have the problem with insects, which the OP dodged. Is it immoral to eat an insect? Is that the same as eating regular meat, or is "animal" only relating to the taxonomy and not the reality?

For that matter, can we even define what life is so that we may determine if our sustenance is ending a life? Is the Earth alive? In some theories of what life is, Earth is itself alive. Is it immoral to damage the Earth with the damming of rivers?

There is a lot that we could theoretically discuss. But there is nothing definitve to make of it. It is all going to boil down to personal choice. Same as whether or not you want biscuits or yeast rolls. Or a piece of bacon instead.

originally posted by: TDawgRex

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: Krakatoa
a reply to: akushla99

What are these facts you speak of? (citations needed for it to be a real fact)

Found anything about methane production and greenhouse gases in relation to the OP?

If you have, please share it...

I found 10 in 15 seconds...

Å99

and...who cares? This has been going on since time immortal. Can you actually point out a report that has actual scientific proof that mankind in a mere two hundred years has had a significant impact on the environment compared to millennium of the same crap happening regardless of mankind.

Go hide in the closet for all the good it'll do ya!

Perhaps you'd like to take the smart mouth up with government bodies (science based) that report these 'facts'...

Is it immoral to deplete the atmosphere with the gases emitted out of the butts of animals, that to all intents and purposes, do not need to be killed for protein? (Choice & preference aside)...it contributes a greater impact than the silliness in this thread would give it credit...the name calling, the baiting, the inferences...are they worth the legacy you are leaving to your children, and your childrens children?

In my opinion, this is a greater challenge - how to feed the world with meat (coz everyone loves it) while making sure the emissions do not cause a third of the damage it does...

Å99

a reply to: Bedlam

Very good question. Meat's meat. A man's (or bear's) got to eat (Motel Hell) . I think it would be interesting eating something that could eat me. I've tried bear and gator. Both are good.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: FormOfTheLord
sure it does.
is it moral to feed unnatural "food" to your children? Do we know the long term health effects on all body types from eating so much soy? What about the problems it creates with hormones? What about my youngest son, who cannot eat soy? Would he be immoral for having a different body chemistry?

What about all the wheat gluten....know anyone with celiac disease? Wheat gluten can kill them.

No, technology does not provide alternatives. And given our track record with technological solutions and their health impact....ill abstain. Because as it stands, it is also considered "nutritious" to eat McDonalds.

RE: a place in a discussion on morals and ethics....you cannot gauge the morality of a being behaving like beings on that planet behave. As said earlier, if its illegal for me to eat an animal, it is immoral for an animal to eat an animal. Its not like we are outsiders here on this planet. We are part of it.

I have eaten soy my entire life as has the rest of my family no negative health effects at all. Perhaps its the GMO pesticideds which are damageing people, I doubt organic soy has negative health effects, it may but who knows its off topic. There are various negative health effects to meat as well, but thats not the topic of this thread.

As to your son he being allergic to soy based products that would be a nono, as I said earlier follow your bliss, do what feels best for you and your family.

I am not selling my lifestyle choices this is simply a discussion on morality and ethics or the lack of it.

Were not talking about animals in the wild eating other animals, disease, hormones, here on this thread we are talking about the ethics and morality of killing animals for food when we dont need to because of our advances in technology.

a reply to: akushla99

.........if you buy the animal farts being an issue with global warming and actually believe the government then i have to say the argument is already lost........

Id also add, if you think the emissions expended in harvesting veggies to feed the world an all veggie diet wouldnt be higher then you have no idea how farming actually works........

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan
I said the same thing and the OP totally ignored me. I would really like the Op to address different dietary needs, since they claim to be living proof that it their way is the only way.

Low carb high protein is what is best for me. I am living proof it works for SOME people, not all.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: akushla99

.........if you buy the animal farts being an issue with global warming and actually believe the government then i have to say the argument is already lost........

Id also add, if you think the emissions expended in harvesting veggies to feed the world an all veggie diet wouldnt be higher then you have no idea how farming actually works........

This discussion would probably be best served by doing the research...I am not personally saying anything outside of what 9 out of 10 studies ARE saying...my advice to you is the same as to the quoted poster.

Å99

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

It is my moral and ethical duty to survive and propagate my species. And as a species we are omnivores, regardless of your unhealthy views. And I wish that my species not only survives, but thrives. As far as I am concerned, your offshoot species can wither and die on the vine...which it will.

Does that count?

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: akushla99

.........if you buy the animal farts being an issue with global warming and actually believe the government then i have to say the argument is already lost........

Id also add, if you think the emissions expended in harvesting veggies to feed the world an all veggie diet wouldnt be higher then you have no idea how farming actually works........

This discussion would probably be best served by doing the research...I am not personally saying anything outside of what 9 out of 10 studies ARE saying...my advice to you is the same as to the quoted poster.

Å99

And even more studies say that those gov studies are full of crap, what do you say to those studies......

Thats like having an investigator that works for a company, investigate the company thats paying him.....seriously? you trust those studies? come on man...

Again, and you push an idea of all vegan diets for the world to stop those emissions....

But yet fail to account for the machinery involved and emissions there from, to harvest ALL of that.....

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: nenothtu

my thoughts:

it is ego that drives the conversation to begin with. First, you have the basic human ego where we declare supremacy over the planet. "Man eaters" are reviled and hunted down. We do not allow beasts that tend to prey on humans to exist. We will hunt tigers and lions across continents, or sharks across oceans, to make sure that we kill a man eater. We do not recognize that, despite our hubris, we are part of the food chain on planet Earth. We are a source of protein, like any other animal. We are prey and predator, like so mny other animals.

Exactly. Thinking we have supremacy over this planet is ludicrous - this planet will EAT you, not even have the decency to belch, and then pick it's teeth with your bones while it searches out it's next meal. that will be the end of every one of us - this planet is going to EAT us and try to recycle us, every one. That informs me as to where the supremacy really lies. Earth does not care if it eats us young and tender or old tough and stringy - the end result is always the same.

We are a part of this planet, a part of the complex mechanism that gives it life - no more, no less. We have to do our part in that for what time we are here. Anything else would be "immoral" to me, a failure to do our part in the cycle. It's hubris, pure and simple, to think that we know better than nature itself how to run nature, or to think that we are at all capable of "destroying" it. This is a BIG planet - a lot bigger than people evidently think, and much less forgiving of hubris than they seem to believe.

Beyond that, the ego of believing that ones own way of doing something is the right way, discrediting the way others live as immoral. To claim there are "alternatives". Because yeah..."alternatives" sound like a real quality of life builder when it comes to food. But going that one step further, and claiming that my behavior is immoral because it is different....that is pure ego.

Their Way is the right Way for them, just as mine is the right Way for me. There is no "one size fits all" Way. They may eat veggies and avoid stepping on bugs all they like, and more power to them - I will stay on MY way, eating until I finally AM eaten. In the end, we will both go the same way out, and no harm done.

Which really follows the stereotype for vegans. Like that joke, "A vegan, an atheist, and a crossfitter walk into a bar. I know because they told everyone within the first 30 seconds".

Now look what you've done! I have to go look up "crossfitter", so that I know what they are, and how to avoid them!

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan


also

EGG WHITES, COOKED BROWN RICE

Since when is Egg vegan? Now not only is he killing an animal hes killing baby animals for every one of his "veggie" patties.......


Oh the laughable hypocrisy

Whats laughable is your inability to discuss the OP of the thread which is to discuss the morality or immorality of killing animals for meat when there are vegi alternatives without some sort of useless insult.

So your talking about eggs? Really?
You think eggs are little babies?
Eggs arent fertalized, female birds will lay eggs even when there is no male bird around. The egg contains all of the ingrediants needed to make a chick, except it will never become a chick if it is unfertile.
The egg is made up of the yolk, which is the food supply intended for the developing chick, and the white (or albumen) which is the water supply.
If there is a male chicken in the same pen as the females, he will mate with them. The females store his sperm inside their bodies and use it to fertilise the yolks. Then the albumen and shell are made around the fertile egg yolk.
Then the egg is laid, and the chick exists as a minute group of cells attatched to the egg yolk by an umbilical cord.
Gradually the chick grows inside the shell and as it does it absorbs the yolk and the white.

If there is no male around the hens will lay one egg each day, but those eggs will never develop into a chick. They are sterile.
A fertile egg has a clear white spiral shaped lump attatched to the yolk, like a thick bit of egg white.
The spot of blood you sometimes find on egg yolks is a disease called coccidiosis, and is harmless. You can pick the spot off and cook and eat the egg.

It sometimes happens that a male gets missed and is put in with the females, but he'd be spotted eventually and removed. So you might find the odd fertile egg.
I know someone who cracked an egg into a pan and found a chick, but there's no way it could have got through the system by itself. The eggs are removed every day, they are not kept at the right temperature or humidity that they need to develop, and chicks take several weeks to grow. So if you've ever found one you can thank the wag who works at the factory for putting it there as ajoke

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: akushla99

.........if you buy the animal farts being an issue with global warming and actually believe the government then i have to say the argument is already lost........

Id also add, if you think the emissions expended in harvesting veggies to feed the world an all veggie diet wouldnt be higher then you have no idea how farming actually works........

This discussion would probably be best served by doing the research...I am not personally saying anything outside of what 9 out of 10 studies ARE saying...my advice to you is the same as to the quoted poster.

Å99

And even more studies say that those gov studies are full of crap, what do you say to those studies......

Again, and you push an idea of all vegan diets for the world to stop those emissions....

But yet fail to account for the machinery involved and emissions there from, to harvest ALL of that.....

Nowhere in my replies have I pushed for anyone to go vegan. To state that is a lie. I have however, responded with what appears to be a case where once the documentation has been mentioned...all sorts of excuses are being raised to discredit worldwide bodies that have produced the documentation...as already stated, if you do not beleive it, I could care less...

Å99

originally posted by: Skid Mark
I live in the mountains and there are bears around here. Now, if a bear came charging at me would it be immoral if I shot it and then ate it?

I live in the mountains, too, and yes there ARE bears around here. A few days ago, my wife and I went for a walk up into the hills, and I took along my trusty boar spear. My missus looked at it and said "what's that for?" and I replied "in case we run into a bear". She looked at me for a beat and says "you think that's going to help against a bear?" and my response was "it ain't a fair fight if I don't give the bear a sportin' chance".

I never claimed to be entirely sane, but fair IS fair!

Yes, if I kill a bear, I'll eat it. Wouldn't the bear do the same for me?

ETA: Forgot to add the rationale - the bear is unlikely to let ME go to waste if IT wins, so neither would I let the bear go to waste. I'm at least as moral as a bear.