The Immorality Of Eating Meat When There Are Vegi Alternatives Do People Care?

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I didn't say cheaper for you. I said environmentally friendly. There are a lot of things that are "green" that are more expensive to the individual than other ways of doing things.

If you wanna talk "greener". Cattle raising is one of the largest contributers to greenhouse gasses than many other things. Methane produced via either a cow's natural digestive processes, and the management of a cow's manure contributes much more to global warming than irrigation and farming crops.

It's a good thing we saved the world from all those buffalo farts them ...

I sense your sarcasm. Back when the buffalo was hunted to near extinction, there wasn't the world-wide cattle industry that we see today. Cattle today is an industry much like any other manufactured good. They are packed as many as can fit into a feed yard without it being deemed "inhumane" and they are raised and slaughtered by billions. There are more cattle on earth today by a large magnitude than there were in the times of the Buffalo.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: akushla99

It's really not that simple. Human instinct is to eat meat along with vegetables. We are omnivorous by nature. Some humans are able to overcome those instincts and eat only vegetables, which is fine. I certainly won't belittle vegetarians or vegans for their lifestyle, but I do see an increasing trend of vegans belittle meat eaters for their lifestyle.

Sorry, if you're a vegetarian/vegan that does not make you better than anyone else. It makes you a person who made a choice, and nothing more.

No. It's not that simple.

We have not developed to the point where killing an animal to live is necessary. Every other point relates to a craving addiction.

Waaay back on page (somewhere near the beginning of the thread) I posted something that was summarily ignored. I have no 'beef' with meat eaters, except when the reason for their choice is a null point, and related to an addiction of sorts. Then, the same excuses come out...

Å99

I take issue with you calling it an addiction, is my point. It's not an addiction. It's instinct.

Take whatever 'issue' you want. Can you give it up?

Many people do not have the 'instinct'...

Å99

Yeah, I can give it up. I choose not to. It's personal choice, not an addiction. I enjoy Sushi. I enjoy a nice steak. I also enjoy the varied and wonderful veggies that make up the Japanese diet. I'm fond of food of all sorts. Am I addicted to veggies because I eat them alongside meat? Do I call your choice to eat only vegetables an addiction? No. I call it what it is, a choice.

I'm not asking you to give up meat

...i'm asking you to give me a reason beyond 'I like it'...

Å99

Well, one reason humans used to consume meat was because it was packed with energy and protein to support our highly advanced brains. When humanity was a hunter/gather civilization before the advent of agriculture, meat was a necessity because it allowed us to maintain our super-brains and ALLOW the mental capacity to learn to farm land. Now in the modern world it is largely a choice, but it is only a choice NOW because we had those advanced brains that ran on meat protein to allow us to rise above it.

Is that enough of a reason for you? Without meat we'd be pretty dumb creatures.

Kind of a leading question. Are vegetarians dumb?

Å99

You asked for a reason. I gave you one. I neither insinuated nor implied that vegetarians are dumb, you seem to be manufacturing attacks that aren't there to justify something.

You might wanna reread some of your posts...

For what? You simply got the definition of an addict incorrect. Addicts need their fix daily. That's what makes them an addict. You'll never meet a heroin junkie that says "Ah I can go a day or two without it."

Not all gamblers gamble every day...

'Attacks'?...really?
The majority of the posts from pro-meaters has ONLY been attacks...

Å99

I see you make the gambling addiction comparison again. Gambling is a behavioral addiction, like sex addiction or gaming addiction. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed to me that you compared eating meat to a DRUG addiction, which is a CHEMICAL addiction in addition to a behavioral addiction. It is patently unfair to compare eating meat to a chemical addiction. Can the case be made for a behavioral addiction? Sure. Some people are habitual carnivores. My brother in law hates veggies. He's certainly addicted to meat, but it's behavioral, not chemical as you seem to have asserted.

Regarding attacks, I have not attacked you once. Rather, I have simply supplied counter-points to your assertions. Have others been less than diplomatic in this thread? Certainly, but then again, the OP of the thread could also be viewed as an attack on meat eaters, so I certainly won't take omnivores to task for responding in kind.

I'll grant it...the OP question/statement was not gracious...but I didn't author it...I don't intrinsically agree with it, and said so on a much earlier page.

As far as I have seen, the ONLY counterpoint has been 'because I lurvv it'...if you, or anyone sees this as an attack, you're being waaay sensitive.

I haven't seen ONE valid reason why animals should be killed for protein (discounting the preference)...issues of land use, methane production, ozone depletion have been glossed over...

The link with addiction is a valid one, regardless of the definition twisting...

Å99

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: akushla99

It's really not that simple. Human instinct is to eat meat along with vegetables. We are omnivorous by nature. Some humans are able to overcome those instincts and eat only vegetables, which is fine. I certainly won't belittle vegetarians or vegans for their lifestyle, but I do see an increasing trend of vegans belittle meat eaters for their lifestyle.

Sorry, if you're a vegetarian/vegan that does not make you better than anyone else. It makes you a person who made a choice, and nothing more.

No. It's not that simple.

We have not developed to the point where killing an animal to live is necessary. Every other point relates to a craving addiction.

Waaay back on page (somewhere near the beginning of the thread) I posted something that was summarily ignored. I have no 'beef' with meat eaters, except when the reason for their choice is a null point, and related to an addiction of sorts. Then, the same excuses come out...

Å99

I take issue with you calling it an addiction, is my point. It's not an addiction. It's instinct.

Take whatever 'issue' you want. Can you give it up?

Many people do not have the 'instinct'...

Å99

Yeah, I can give it up. I choose not to. It's personal choice, not an addiction. I enjoy Sushi. I enjoy a nice steak. I also enjoy the varied and wonderful veggies that make up the Japanese diet. I'm fond of food of all sorts. Am I addicted to veggies because I eat them alongside meat? Do I call your choice to eat only vegetables an addiction? No. I call it what it is, a choice.

I'm not asking you to give up meat

...i'm asking you to give me a reason beyond 'I like it'...

Å99

Well, one reason humans used to consume meat was because it was packed with energy and protein to support our highly advanced brains. When humanity was a hunter/gather civilization before the advent of agriculture, meat was a necessity because it allowed us to maintain our super-brains and ALLOW the mental capacity to learn to farm land. Now in the modern world it is largely a choice, but it is only a choice NOW because we had those advanced brains that ran on meat protein to allow us to rise above it.

Is that enough of a reason for you? Without meat we'd be pretty dumb creatures.

Kind of a leading question. Are vegetarians dumb?

Å99

You asked for a reason. I gave you one. I neither insinuated nor implied that vegetarians are dumb, you seem to be manufacturing attacks that aren't there to justify something.

You might wanna reread some of your posts...

For what? You simply got the definition of an addict incorrect. Addicts need their fix daily. That's what makes them an addict. You'll never meet a heroin junkie that says "Ah I can go a day or two without it."

Not all gamblers gamble every day...

'Attacks'?...really?
The majority of the posts from pro-meaters has ONLY been attacks...

Å99

I see you make the gambling addiction comparison again. Gambling is a behavioral addiction, like sex addiction or gaming addiction. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed to me that you compared eating meat to a DRUG addiction, which is a CHEMICAL addiction in addition to a behavioral addiction. It is patently unfair to compare eating meat to a chemical addiction. Can the case be made for a behavioral addiction? Sure. Some people are habitual carnivores. My brother in law hates veggies. He's certainly addicted to meat, but it's behavioral, not chemical as you seem to have asserted.

Regarding attacks, I have not attacked you once. Rather, I have simply supplied counter-points to your assertions. Have others been less than diplomatic in this thread? Certainly, but then again, the OP of the thread could also be viewed as an attack on meat eaters, so I certainly won't take omnivores to task for responding in kind.

I'll grant it...the OP question/statement was not gracious...but I didn't author it...I don't intrinsically agree with it, and said so on a much earlier page.

As far as I have seen, the ONLY counterpoint has been 'because I lurvv it'...if you, or anyone sees this as an attack, you're being waaay sensitive.

I haven't seen ONE valid reason why animals should be killed for protein (discounting the preference)...issues of land use, methane production, ozone depletion have been glossed over...

The link with addiction is a valid one, regardless of the definition twisting...

Å99

I gave you a reason. It was needed in the past for our advanced brains. Today, not so much, and it is largely a choice, but the urge (instinct) to eat meat remains, and the structure of our mouths and digestive tracts remains a clear indication that our bodies were evolved to eat and process meat as an energy source. And to be clear, "I lurvv it" can be seen as a sarcastic jab at people who eat meat. You might want to rethink how you interact if you plan on not offending. I have also spoken quite often on the issues of land use and methane production. I hardly think I've "glossed over it" as I'm currently having an ongoing verbal spar with Ketsuko over that very subject.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: akushla99

It's really not that simple. Human instinct is to eat meat along with vegetables. We are omnivorous by nature. Some humans are able to overcome those instincts and eat only vegetables, which is fine. I certainly won't belittle vegetarians or vegans for their lifestyle, but I do see an increasing trend of vegans belittle meat eaters for their lifestyle.

Sorry, if you're a vegetarian/vegan that does not make you better than anyone else. It makes you a person who made a choice, and nothing more.

No. It's not that simple.

We have not developed to the point where killing an animal to live is necessary. Every other point relates to a craving addiction.

Waaay back on page (somewhere near the beginning of the thread) I posted something that was summarily ignored. I have no 'beef' with meat eaters, except when the reason for their choice is a null point, and related to an addiction of sorts. Then, the same excuses come out...

Å99

I take issue with you calling it an addiction, is my point. It's not an addiction. It's instinct.

Take whatever 'issue' you want. Can you give it up?

Many people do not have the 'instinct'...

Å99

Yeah, I can give it up. I choose not to. It's personal choice, not an addiction. I enjoy Sushi. I enjoy a nice steak. I also enjoy the varied and wonderful veggies that make up the Japanese diet. I'm fond of food of all sorts. Am I addicted to veggies because I eat them alongside meat? Do I call your choice to eat only vegetables an addiction? No. I call it what it is, a choice.

I'm not asking you to give up meat

...i'm asking you to give me a reason beyond 'I like it'...

Å99

Well, one reason humans used to consume meat was because it was packed with energy and protein to support our highly advanced brains. When humanity was a hunter/gather civilization before the advent of agriculture, meat was a necessity because it allowed us to maintain our super-brains and ALLOW the mental capacity to learn to farm land. Now in the modern world it is largely a choice, but it is only a choice NOW because we had those advanced brains that ran on meat protein to allow us to rise above it.

Is that enough of a reason for you? Without meat we'd be pretty dumb creatures.

Kind of a leading question. Are vegetarians dumb?

Å99

You asked for a reason. I gave you one. I neither insinuated nor implied that vegetarians are dumb, you seem to be manufacturing attacks that aren't there to justify something.

You might wanna reread some of your posts...

For what? You simply got the definition of an addict incorrect. Addicts need their fix daily. That's what makes them an addict. You'll never meet a heroin junkie that says "Ah I can go a day or two without it."

Not all gamblers gamble every day...

'Attacks'?...really?
The majority of the posts from pro-meaters has ONLY been attacks...

Å99

I see you make the gambling addiction comparison again. Gambling is a behavioral addiction, like sex addiction or gaming addiction. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed to me that you compared eating meat to a DRUG addiction, which is a CHEMICAL addiction in addition to a behavioral addiction. It is patently unfair to compare eating meat to a chemical addiction. Can the case be made for a behavioral addiction? Sure. Some people are habitual carnivores. My brother in law hates veggies. He's certainly addicted to meat, but it's behavioral, not chemical as you seem to have asserted.

Regarding attacks, I have not attacked you once. Rather, I have simply supplied counter-points to your assertions. Have others been less than diplomatic in this thread? Certainly, but then again, the OP of the thread could also be viewed as an attack on meat eaters, so I certainly won't take omnivores to task for responding in kind.

I'll grant it...the OP question/statement was not gracious...but I didn't author it...I don't intrinsically agree with it, and said so on a much earlier page.

As far as I have seen, the ONLY counterpoint has been 'because I lurvv it'...if you, or anyone sees this as an attack, you're being waaay sensitive.

I haven't seen ONE valid reason why animals should be killed for protein (discounting the preference)...issues of land use, methane production, ozone depletion have been glossed over...

The link with addiction is a valid one, regardless of the definition twisting...

Å99

I gave you a reason. It was needed in the past for our advanced brains. Today, not so much, and it is largely a choice, but the urge (instinct) to eat meat remains, and the structure of our mouths and digestive tracts remains a clear indication that our bodies were evolved to eat and process meat as an energy source. And to be clear, "I lurvv it" can be seen as a sarcastic jab at people who eat meat. You might want to rethink how you interact if you plan on not offending. I have also spoken quite often on the issues of land use and methane production. I hardly think I've "glossed over it" as I'm currently having an ongoing verbal spar with Ketsuko over that very subject.

Good on you!

'Sarcastic jabs'?...mine would be DWARFED by those from meat eaters on this thread alone...please, make me laugh a little more...

Å99

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: akushla99

It's really not that simple. Human instinct is to eat meat along with vegetables. We are omnivorous by nature. Some humans are able to overcome those instincts and eat only vegetables, which is fine. I certainly won't belittle vegetarians or vegans for their lifestyle, but I do see an increasing trend of vegans belittle meat eaters for their lifestyle.

Sorry, if you're a vegetarian/vegan that does not make you better than anyone else. It makes you a person who made a choice, and nothing more.

No. It's not that simple.

We have not developed to the point where killing an animal to live is necessary. Every other point relates to a craving addiction.

Waaay back on page (somewhere near the beginning of the thread) I posted something that was summarily ignored. I have no 'beef' with meat eaters, except when the reason for their choice is a null point, and related to an addiction of sorts. Then, the same excuses come out...

Å99

I take issue with you calling it an addiction, is my point. It's not an addiction. It's instinct.

Take whatever 'issue' you want. Can you give it up?

Many people do not have the 'instinct'...

Å99

Yeah, I can give it up. I choose not to. It's personal choice, not an addiction. I enjoy Sushi. I enjoy a nice steak. I also enjoy the varied and wonderful veggies that make up the Japanese diet. I'm fond of food of all sorts. Am I addicted to veggies because I eat them alongside meat? Do I call your choice to eat only vegetables an addiction? No. I call it what it is, a choice.

I'm not asking you to give up meat

...i'm asking you to give me a reason beyond 'I like it'...

Å99

Well, one reason humans used to consume meat was because it was packed with energy and protein to support our highly advanced brains. When humanity was a hunter/gather civilization before the advent of agriculture, meat was a necessity because it allowed us to maintain our super-brains and ALLOW the mental capacity to learn to farm land. Now in the modern world it is largely a choice, but it is only a choice NOW because we had those advanced brains that ran on meat protein to allow us to rise above it.

Is that enough of a reason for you? Without meat we'd be pretty dumb creatures.

Kind of a leading question. Are vegetarians dumb?

Å99

You asked for a reason. I gave you one. I neither insinuated nor implied that vegetarians are dumb, you seem to be manufacturing attacks that aren't there to justify something.

You might wanna reread some of your posts...

For what? You simply got the definition of an addict incorrect. Addicts need their fix daily. That's what makes them an addict. You'll never meet a heroin junkie that says "Ah I can go a day or two without it."

Not all gamblers gamble every day...

'Attacks'?...really?
The majority of the posts from pro-meaters has ONLY been attacks...

Å99

I see you make the gambling addiction comparison again. Gambling is a behavioral addiction, like sex addiction or gaming addiction. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed to me that you compared eating meat to a DRUG addiction, which is a CHEMICAL addiction in addition to a behavioral addiction. It is patently unfair to compare eating meat to a chemical addiction. Can the case be made for a behavioral addiction? Sure. Some people are habitual carnivores. My brother in law hates veggies. He's certainly addicted to meat, but it's behavioral, not chemical as you seem to have asserted.

Regarding attacks, I have not attacked you once. Rather, I have simply supplied counter-points to your assertions. Have others been less than diplomatic in this thread? Certainly, but then again, the OP of the thread could also be viewed as an attack on meat eaters, so I certainly won't take omnivores to task for responding in kind.

I'll grant it...the OP question/statement was not gracious...but I didn't author it...I don't intrinsically agree with it, and said so on a much earlier page.

As far as I have seen, the ONLY counterpoint has been 'because I lurvv it'...if you, or anyone sees this as an attack, you're being waaay sensitive.

I haven't seen ONE valid reason why animals should be killed for protein (discounting the preference)...issues of land use, methane production, ozone depletion have been glossed over...

The link with addiction is a valid one, regardless of the definition twisting...

Å99

I gave you a reason. It was needed in the past for our advanced brains. Today, not so much, and it is largely a choice, but the urge (instinct) to eat meat remains, and the structure of our mouths and digestive tracts remains a clear indication that our bodies were evolved to eat and process meat as an energy source. And to be clear, "I lurvv it" can be seen as a sarcastic jab at people who eat meat. You might want to rethink how you interact if you plan on not offending. I have also spoken quite often on the issues of land use and methane production. I hardly think I've "glossed over it" as I'm currently having an ongoing verbal spar with Ketsuko over that very subject.

Good on you!

'Sarcastic jabs'?...mine would be DWARFED by those from meat eaters on this thread alone...please, make me laugh a little more...

Å99

I'm sorry, but I keep getting this air of superiority from you in a debate where I have been nothing if not forthright and honest. Do you feel persecuted by meat eaters? I can certainly understand if you do. People often deride what they don't understand. But that does not mean that you should respond in kind. Answering hostility with hostility only conflates the issues. Why not try some understanding of your own? Some people just enjoy eating meat. It does not make them "below" you. I sense you're using the "addict" analogy as a means of vindication somehow, that putting meat-eaters in that category means you're better by virtue of not giving in to "addiction".

Not all gamblers gamble every day...

Your equating 'drug addicts' to 'gamblers' suggests that you equate people who use drugs with drug addicts...which is ignorant...

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: akushla99

It's really not that simple. Human instinct is to eat meat along with vegetables. We are omnivorous by nature. Some humans are able to overcome those instincts and eat only vegetables, which is fine. I certainly won't belittle vegetarians or vegans for their lifestyle, but I do see an increasing trend of vegans belittle meat eaters for their lifestyle.

Sorry, if you're a vegetarian/vegan that does not make you better than anyone else. It makes you a person who made a choice, and nothing more.

No. It's not that simple.

We have not developed to the point where killing an animal to live is necessary. Every other point relates to a craving addiction.

Waaay back on page (somewhere near the beginning of the thread) I posted something that was summarily ignored. I have no 'beef' with meat eaters, except when the reason for their choice is a null point, and related to an addiction of sorts. Then, the same excuses come out...

Å99

I take issue with you calling it an addiction, is my point. It's not an addiction. It's instinct.

Take whatever 'issue' you want. Can you give it up?

Many people do not have the 'instinct'...

Å99

Yeah, I can give it up. I choose not to. It's personal choice, not an addiction. I enjoy Sushi. I enjoy a nice steak. I also enjoy the varied and wonderful veggies that make up the Japanese diet. I'm fond of food of all sorts. Am I addicted to veggies because I eat them alongside meat? Do I call your choice to eat only vegetables an addiction? No. I call it what it is, a choice.

I'm not asking you to give up meat

...i'm asking you to give me a reason beyond 'I like it'...

Å99

Well, one reason humans used to consume meat was because it was packed with energy and protein to support our highly advanced brains. When humanity was a hunter/gather civilization before the advent of agriculture, meat was a necessity because it allowed us to maintain our super-brains and ALLOW the mental capacity to learn to farm land. Now in the modern world it is largely a choice, but it is only a choice NOW because we had those advanced brains that ran on meat protein to allow us to rise above it.

Is that enough of a reason for you? Without meat we'd be pretty dumb creatures.

Kind of a leading question. Are vegetarians dumb?

Å99

You asked for a reason. I gave you one. I neither insinuated nor implied that vegetarians are dumb, you seem to be manufacturing attacks that aren't there to justify something.

You might wanna reread some of your posts...

For what? You simply got the definition of an addict incorrect. Addicts need their fix daily. That's what makes them an addict. You'll never meet a heroin junkie that says "Ah I can go a day or two without it."

Not all gamblers gamble every day...

'Attacks'?...really?
The majority of the posts from pro-meaters has ONLY been attacks...

Å99

I see you make the gambling addiction comparison again. Gambling is a behavioral addiction, like sex addiction or gaming addiction. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed to me that you compared eating meat to a DRUG addiction, which is a CHEMICAL addiction in addition to a behavioral addiction. It is patently unfair to compare eating meat to a chemical addiction. Can the case be made for a behavioral addiction? Sure. Some people are habitual carnivores. My brother in law hates veggies. He's certainly addicted to meat, but it's behavioral, not chemical as you seem to have asserted.

Regarding attacks, I have not attacked you once. Rather, I have simply supplied counter-points to your assertions. Have others been less than diplomatic in this thread? Certainly, but then again, the OP of the thread could also be viewed as an attack on meat eaters, so I certainly won't take omnivores to task for responding in kind.

I'll grant it...the OP question/statement was not gracious...but I didn't author it...I don't intrinsically agree with it, and said so on a much earlier page.

As far as I have seen, the ONLY counterpoint has been 'because I lurvv it'...if you, or anyone sees this as an attack, you're being waaay sensitive.

I haven't seen ONE valid reason why animals should be killed for protein (discounting the preference)...issues of land use, methane production, ozone depletion have been glossed over...

The link with addiction is a valid one, regardless of the definition twisting...

Å99

I gave you a reason. It was needed in the past for our advanced brains. Today, not so much, and it is largely a choice, but the urge (instinct) to eat meat remains, and the structure of our mouths and digestive tracts remains a clear indication that our bodies were evolved to eat and process meat as an energy source. And to be clear, "I lurvv it" can be seen as a sarcastic jab at people who eat meat. You might want to rethink how you interact if you plan on not offending. I have also spoken quite often on the issues of land use and methane production. I hardly think I've "glossed over it" as I'm currently having an ongoing verbal spar with Ketsuko over that very subject.

Good on you!

'Sarcastic jabs'?...mine would be DWARFED by those from meat eaters on this thread alone...please, make me laugh a little more...

Å99

I'm sorry, but I keep getting this air of superiority from you in a debate where I have been nothing if not forthright and honest. Do you feel persecuted by meat eaters? I can certainly understand if you do. People often deride what they don't understand. But that does not mean that you should respond in kind. Answering hostility with hostility only conflates the issues. Why not try some understanding of your own? Some people just enjoy eating meat. It does not make them "below" you. I sense you're using the "addict" analogy as a means of vindication somehow, that putting meat-eaters in that category means you're better by virtue of not giving in to "addiction".

I have no 'moral high ground'. I was, though, brought up on the finest lambs brains, horse meat and pate de foi...until I realised what damage, all over, this 'preference' has...

Keep eating it...I really don't care, but in the spirit of denying ignorance, I contribute...

Cheers

Å99

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: akushla99

It's really not that simple. Human instinct is to eat meat along with vegetables. We are omnivorous by nature. Some humans are able to overcome those instincts and eat only vegetables, which is fine. I certainly won't belittle vegetarians or vegans for their lifestyle, but I do see an increasing trend of vegans belittle meat eaters for their lifestyle.

Sorry, if you're a vegetarian/vegan that does not make you better than anyone else. It makes you a person who made a choice, and nothing more.

No. It's not that simple.

We have not developed to the point where killing an animal to live is necessary. Every other point relates to a craving addiction.

Waaay back on page (somewhere near the beginning of the thread) I posted something that was summarily ignored. I have no 'beef' with meat eaters, except when the reason for their choice is a null point, and related to an addiction of sorts. Then, the same excuses come out...

Å99

I take issue with you calling it an addiction, is my point. It's not an addiction. It's instinct.

Take whatever 'issue' you want. Can you give it up?

Many people do not have the 'instinct'...

Å99

Yeah, I can give it up. I choose not to. It's personal choice, not an addiction. I enjoy Sushi. I enjoy a nice steak. I also enjoy the varied and wonderful veggies that make up the Japanese diet. I'm fond of food of all sorts. Am I addicted to veggies because I eat them alongside meat? Do I call your choice to eat only vegetables an addiction? No. I call it what it is, a choice.

I'm not asking you to give up meat

...i'm asking you to give me a reason beyond 'I like it'...

Å99

Well, one reason humans used to consume meat was because it was packed with energy and protein to support our highly advanced brains. When humanity was a hunter/gather civilization before the advent of agriculture, meat was a necessity because it allowed us to maintain our super-brains and ALLOW the mental capacity to learn to farm land. Now in the modern world it is largely a choice, but it is only a choice NOW because we had those advanced brains that ran on meat protein to allow us to rise above it.

Is that enough of a reason for you? Without meat we'd be pretty dumb creatures.

Kind of a leading question. Are vegetarians dumb?

Å99

You asked for a reason. I gave you one. I neither insinuated nor implied that vegetarians are dumb, you seem to be manufacturing attacks that aren't there to justify something.

You might wanna reread some of your posts...

For what? You simply got the definition of an addict incorrect. Addicts need their fix daily. That's what makes them an addict. You'll never meet a heroin junkie that says "Ah I can go a day or two without it."

Not all gamblers gamble every day...

'Attacks'?...really?
The majority of the posts from pro-meaters has ONLY been attacks...

Å99

I see you make the gambling addiction comparison again. Gambling is a behavioral addiction, like sex addiction or gaming addiction. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed to me that you compared eating meat to a DRUG addiction, which is a CHEMICAL addiction in addition to a behavioral addiction. It is patently unfair to compare eating meat to a chemical addiction. Can the case be made for a behavioral addiction? Sure. Some people are habitual carnivores. My brother in law hates veggies. He's certainly addicted to meat, but it's behavioral, not chemical as you seem to have asserted.

Regarding attacks, I have not attacked you once. Rather, I have simply supplied counter-points to your assertions. Have others been less than diplomatic in this thread? Certainly, but then again, the OP of the thread could also be viewed as an attack on meat eaters, so I certainly won't take omnivores to task for responding in kind.

I'll grant it...the OP question/statement was not gracious...but I didn't author it...I don't intrinsically agree with it, and said so on a much earlier page.

As far as I have seen, the ONLY counterpoint has been 'because I lurvv it'...if you, or anyone sees this as an attack, you're being waaay sensitive.

I haven't seen ONE valid reason why animals should be killed for protein (discounting the preference)...issues of land use, methane production, ozone depletion have been glossed over...

The link with addiction is a valid one, regardless of the definition twisting...

Å99

I gave you a reason. It was needed in the past for our advanced brains. Today, not so much, and it is largely a choice, but the urge (instinct) to eat meat remains, and the structure of our mouths and digestive tracts remains a clear indication that our bodies were evolved to eat and process meat as an energy source. And to be clear, "I lurvv it" can be seen as a sarcastic jab at people who eat meat. You might want to rethink how you interact if you plan on not offending. I have also spoken quite often on the issues of land use and methane production. I hardly think I've "glossed over it" as I'm currently having an ongoing verbal spar with Ketsuko over that very subject.

Good on you!

'Sarcastic jabs'?...mine would be DWARFED by those from meat eaters on this thread alone...please, make me laugh a little more...

Å99

I'm sorry, but I keep getting this air of superiority from you in a debate where I have been nothing if not forthright and honest. Do you feel persecuted by meat eaters? I can certainly understand if you do. People often deride what they don't understand. But that does not mean that you should respond in kind. Answering hostility with hostility only conflates the issues. Why not try some understanding of your own? Some people just enjoy eating meat. It does not make them "below" you. I sense you're using the "addict" analogy as a means of vindication somehow, that putting meat-eaters in that category means you're better by virtue of not giving in to "addiction".

I have no 'moral high ground'. I was, though, brought up on the finest lambs brains, horse meat and pate de foi...until I realised what damage, all over, this 'preference' has...

Keep eating it...I really don't care, but in the spirit of denying ignorance, I contribute...

Cheers

Å99

So in your mind, it is ignorant to consume meat?

a reply to: ScientificRailgun


In my mind, it is silly to ignore the impact that a meat-eating diet has on the individual and the globe as a whole...and when I see the reason (not 'reasons') why people would want to continue to do it...i would say it is ignoring the facts...from there, anyone can twist whatever (i say) to suit their own personal preference...

Å99

a reply to: akushla99

What are these facts you speak of? (citations needed for it to be a real fact)

originally posted by: Krakatoa
a reply to: akushla99

What are these facts you speak of? (citations needed for it to be a real fact)

Look 'em up.

What is contributing to 1/3 depletion of the ozone?

Do humans need to kill animals to get protein?

Å99

originally posted by: akushla99
a reply to: ScientificRailgun


In my mind, it is silly to ignore the impact that a meat-eating diet has on the individual and the globe as a whole...and when I see the reason (not 'reasons') why people would want to continue to do it...i would say it is ignoring the facts...from there, anyone can twist whatever (i say) to suit their own personal preference...

Å99

Yet you claim not to have "The Moral Highground" in the post right before this one? How is that possible?

MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION!


The back and forth nonsense will stop. The issue being discussed (get the hint??) is:


The Immorality Of Eating Meat When There Are Vegi Alternatives Do People Care?


Discuss that without resorting to attacks on fellow members.

a reply to: akushla99

The burden is not upon me, sir, to provide YOUR facts. Please, either produce citations for the facts you are speaking of, or retract your statement regarding these so called "facts". That is what honorable and respectful people do here...

a reply to: Eunuchorn

I didn't recall vegetarianism being a race. I thought it was a dietary choice.

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

There is some synthetic meat out there now thats affordable as well would you be willing to eat that over animals?

No.

There is no such thing as "meatless meat" - not any more than there is any such thing as "sexless sex" or "airless air".

Consider for a moment that there may be no real need to actually eat real animals, so is it moral to still eat them?

There is always need to eat animals - for those who intend to remain healthy, that is. An all veggie diet is not less damaging than an all meat diet to a human being, which is an omnivore. Folks who claim to have been vegetarians all their lives and still be "healthy" can only make such claims because, never having been healthy to begin with, they don't know what "healthy" feels like.

originally posted by: akushla99
Exchange 'bacon' for illegal addictive drug, and see how that sentence sounds...

Å99

Or "soybean".

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
There are more cattle on earth today by a large magnitude than there were in the times of the Buffalo.

Besides which, buffalo poots were Earth friendly, filled only with the scent of flowers and soybeans.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Because humans have evolved to eat meat. The very nature of our growth mostly that of our brains require meat to grow expand thus keeping us mentally and psychically healthy. You may not see huge changes in how you live off plants to that of a meat eater but its fact that you cannot get the natural nutrients from plants and the fact, there is a difference. If you was to run tests on your body and that of a meat eater, you would see you lack many natural nutrients and growth advances.

Here are 5 nutrients that are very important for the brain and only found in animal foods.

authoritynutrition.com...

Also the fact that we have developed as humans in the way we have due to the meat we eat, to stop that now would be like taking a shark out of water. It'll not function the same.

"I know this will sound awful to vegetarians, but meat made us human,"

www.livescience.com...

The fact is, we are who we are because we ate what we ate. The modern day man/woman tries to deny this connection. Why? Is beyond me.

I love it when she compared how people blame Asians for eating dogs. Anyways, we have carnivores for a reason. They are meant to eat the herbivores like hogs, and rabbits because they breed more than us per baby. It is part of the planet natural cycle.

Humans of course, us suppose to balance the carnivores out, so we should be eating dogs, cats, and bears like our ancestors. But, we got so intelligent and abusive that we are making the planet unbalance. We are the intelligent beings on this planet.