NLBS #35: The Anti-Vaccination Movement and the Measles Outbreak

originally posted by: theMediator

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
I wish I could trust vaccinations and to some degree I do. What I do not trust is the entire western for-profit medical industry.

I feel exactly the same way...
This whole world is sick from the eternal pursue of profits and I don't know who to really trust anymore!

I had the 3 vaccines that compose MMR when I was just a baby but I didn't get them at the same time. I think I had 2 months in between if I remember well. Maybe 3 is just too much for some and more problems can occur than from one at a time?

Many sources out there claim that the MMR vaccine is a factor in autism, I mostly believe those claims even though I think GMO's, pesticides and insecticides are more to blame.

I hope we still have the possibility of getting each vaccines separately.

On a similar note...2 years ago, my gf got an update for tetanus which is normal. As she was getting the shot, the women there told her : "Oh and you just got the newest flu vaccine along!" She was pissed and rightfully so. She got sick 3 times in the next 6 months.

Wait! Your GF was given a flue vaccine without giving consent? That is messed up. I would be in jail right now if that happened to me. I'm serious.

a reply to: deadeyedick

you posted only people who don't get vaccinated will catch the disease and others don't have to worry

tell that to the parents of 6 infants "too young" to get the vaccine who now have the measles.....

babies that are too young to get the shots, people who are allergic to something in the shots, people with compromised immune systems....they cannot get immunizatoins and they are the ones AT RISK when parents refuse to get their children vaccinated.

think before you post.

originally posted by: research100
take a good look at the amount of mercury in that shot...that amount is the same amount a baby gets EVERY DAY from breast milk...EVERY DAY>...get a clue

Look...I'll put down the Tuna but don't even try to turn me off Breast Milk!!!

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

i think it depends on the state. for example, i homeschooled my children thru a christian school. they required that i get my kids vaccinated and prove it had been done, because the state told them they had to prove their students were being vaccinated.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
well it does say greater than 25 mcg so that leaves much wiggle room

The symbol used is a less-than symbol.

Here's an interesting analysis, that contradicts the op. link I know the source isn't well liked here, but I chalk that up to the nature of this site.

As you may already be aware, many previous measles outbreaks have occurred among mostly vaccinated populations, for which health officials have no explanation other than to, again, blame the unvaccinated (which makes no sense). Many measles-vaccinated individuals have also come down with what's known as "atypical" measles infection later in life, the direct result of having gotten vaccinated.

I have a quick question, what exactly do you think they do with all of the biological warfare that for some reason exists in the top levels of military/pharmaceutical science?

Is it possible that they create diseases that mimic lets say measles and can therefore say that the latest resurgence of said disease is due to people not getting their shot?

On that note I have a recommendation for a show, it is called LYMES disease and it is an epidemic that for some reason is not acknowledged by the CDC/WHO/NIH or any of those who you consistently cite in your "research"

Those creating the vaccines have, through their historic behavior proven not to be reliable or trustworthy.

For christs sake Bayer was a staple of the nazi regime the ever infamous IG Farben, but hey they have proven scientific studies that verifies the safety of their vaccines, how dare I or anyone else question it!

Ah Maintaining the statist demands upon children and the continued promotion of the church of scientism!!

Well I should have suspected that the name of the show was foreshadowing!

NLBS to the extreme!

In regards to the MMR vaccine, I am a part of a facebook breastfeeding support group with about 1700 moms. There are about 100 regular commenters. Just this past week, about 8 moms whose children just turned 1 recently and received the vaccine were calling out for advice. Each of them said the exact same thing.

Their child had a fever above 102 for 1-3 weeks
All the children had the same rash as compared in pictures
Each had gone to the doctor several times (obviously different doctors...unrelated)
Each doctor diagnosed their child with roseola or an ear infection or both or blamed laundry detergent
Each doctor said the shot had nothing to do with the symptoms
All of the children were not getting better, constant crying

Either they all have the measles or the vaccine is wacked. Of all the moms who got their kids the MMR shot over the last two weeks, almost all had measles like rashes! And having a fever for 2-3 weeks isn't normal!

These are real people. Not some statistic on some news channel.

I call BS on this episode #35.

You only focus on the "autism" angle. What about the rest of the known side effects? Here is an official list of known side effects for most vaccines:

www.cdc.gov...

There are some very bad side effects listed... For the case of this discussion here are the 'serious' MMR side effects:

www.cdc.gov...

Serious allergic reaction (less than 1 out of a million doses)
Deafness
Long-term seizures, coma, or lowered consciousness
Permanent brain damage

Of course, they have a disclaimer for the serious side effects:

These are so rare that it is hard to tell whether they are caused by the vaccine. The risk of MMR vaccine causing serious harm, or death, is extremely small.

Hard to tell? That means they have no idea what caused the side effect, or what the drug does to your entire body. They don't know why most of these side effects happen because 'modern' medicine isn't as advanced as you are lead to believe. That is why most smart people are anti-drug in general, not just anti-vaccine.

These are just known side effects that got reported or noted during trials, and most of them are the short term side effects that are detectable. There are always unknown side effects they have no idea how to detect, and or long term side effects that usually are blamed on something else because they happen long after the fact.

Have you ever seen a medication advertisement that didn't have a huge list of side effects? No you haven't.

Have you ever seen a new medication advertised, then years later you see an advertisement for a class action lawsuit about said medication causing all types of diseases? I'm sure you have.

This is because 'modern' medicine is all about trial and error, and you are the lab rats. They create medications that target a specific ailment, and sure it usually works, but it does other things to your body that they don't know how to track or study, usually bad things. As long as the drug does what it says, and side effects don't kill everyone (killing a few is ok in their books), the drug gets approved. They don't even have to worry about the side effects or what causes them.

Sure the ingredients for a specific drug alone may be safe, but we are all living different lifestyles, live in different environments, and take different medications, and eat different foods and drinks. Its the combination of different things that usually causes the issues, and they are not often studied or mentioned by drug companies.

With that said, I don't trust 'modern medicine' or at least 'modern drugs'. You can always argue that its more risky to not take a drug than it is to take it, but that can be argued for quite a while with no end.

---

I want to make one thing clear... You can stop claiming that anti-vaccers put other people at risk, because the exact opposite is true. You must understand how some vaccines work... They actually inject you with the virus you are trying to prevent. Of course the virus is modified to be less active, or not active, but you still get the virus so your body can learn how to defend against it. Most vaccines actually cause exactly what you are trying to fight against! For instance the MMR vaccine actually causes a mild form of measels, and or a mild form of mumps, in 1 out of 50 injections. Those infected people then put non-vaccinated at risk!!!

a reply to: research100

originally posted by: research100
take a good look at the amount of mercury in that shot...that amount is the same amount a baby gets EVERY DAY from breast milk...EVERY DAY>...get a clue

So your logic is to give the baby MORE mercury via vaccines??? Are you crazy?

Clearly, babies get mercury on a daily basis, which is bad no matter how you look at it. If we could prevent it, we would. But your logic is to willingly inject a baby with MORE mercury on top of what the baby already receives?

Wow..... get a clue. Mercury is cumulative.

NLBS...Where mainstream science trumps all, and there is no conspiracy.

a reply to: fictitious

i believe you. i'm on the fence about the whole thing. i'm not pro or anti but i do think that many vaccines aren't as effective as we are told they are. new batches are made and i don't trust standards anymore. it wouldn't surprise me ONE BIT if the MMR vaccine was recently a bad batch and is partially to blame for some of the outbreaks.

a reply to: pasiphae

So far I haven't vaccinated my child. She is 8 months now, breastfed, and stays at home with me. She's never been sick a day in her life. I will eventually get a few vaccines. Certainly not pointless ones like chickenpox.

When it comes to doing the MMR since it's bad rep, I've done a lot of research about catch up vaccines and delaying them. So far there isn't any evidence that points to there being any harm in delaying a bit. I just can't see how it's okay to shoot up a baby with so many chemicals so often.

Also, to point out, my husband suddenly demanded to get our daughter's MMR shot immediately because of the Disney land outbreak. He didn't even realize she's still too young. He did absolutely no research. The media is doing a good job at fear mongering.

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord

originally posted by: FyreByrd
What about individual 'freedom'?

What about it?

What about my freedom to be able to send my children to school and group events with the assurance that no other kids might be carrying preventable diseases?

Freedoms are good, but so is acceptance of responsibility. If you don't want to vaccinate your children, you should be prepared to accept reasonable consequences of your children being exempt from group situations.

People freaked out over Ebola, and part of that was rather intense frustration over a lack of an effective vaccine. Measles is exponentially more contagious, kills, and has a long list of potential debilitating outcomes for survivors.

If your kids are vaccinated, then what do you have to worry about? If your kids had the MMR, then why should you be worried? Shouldn't only the people who didn't vaccinate be worried about catching measles?

If you have 100 kids in a school and 5 of them didn't vaccinate, aren't they the only ones who can catch the disease? Isn't that the whole purpose of injecting this disease directly into your children, so they build up immunity to it? Or am I wrong on this?

Freedom is about our right not to inject toxins into our children. You are free to inject into your child and then "supposedly" you should be able to rest easy knowing your child is safe, but all of a sudden...there's an outbreak among those vaccinated. Makes no sense because once you've been vaccinated, you should be immune. But, that's not the case and then officials try to say more need to be vaccinated but maybe it was all a farce in the first place and the vaccine didn't work to begin with. In the old days, back in the 70's when this vaccine was first taking off, measles was already on the decline. Prior to that, kids got sick with the measles and it came and went, only 1 in 1000 cases died from the disease prior to 1960. Once you had it back then, you were immune and didn't get sick. The disease was on the decline prior to the vaccine and that was because most of the populous had already had the disease.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

It is my understanding that measles is one of the most, if not THE most contagious virus known. The virus can survive on aerosols in the air for many hours.

Let me tell you this: My kids had all their vaccinations that were required. I used to trust the process. Not anymore. You focus on the MMR vaccination with out addressing others. Your segment is focused and limited. I went in and signed a waiver for my high schooler to be disallowed from the "new" whooping cough vaccination. I WILL NOT inject anything else into my body, and I will advise my children who are of age to do the same.

I notice you didn't address the Gardisil vaccination, or the flu vaccination, or the newly touted "Shingles" vaccination or those, "birth control vaccinations".

Do NOT discredit anti-vaxxers based on the MMR vaccine.

I don't trust our government, the FDA. or the CDC.

How about all those vaccinations that are given freely to the African population courtesy of the Gates Foundation.

Really disappointed with how you handled this. There are far more reasons to oppose these "new" vaccines.

On edit: You did not even address the law that was passed by Congress a couple of years ago that shields pharma from vaccine lawsuits.

Shame

originally posted by: Rezlooper
If your kids are vaccinated, then what do you have to worry about? If your kids had the MMR, then why should you be worried? Shouldn't only the people who didn't vaccinate be worried about catching measles?

As has been previously indicated in this thread, the MMR vaccine (as are most vaccines) are not 100% effective. The more people who are vaccinated, the more the entire population is protected.

The woman who brought measles to Arizona from California was vaccinated.

Six children who caught measles here in Arizona from the resulting exposure, were vaccinated.

At least two (known) pre-vaccinated children (too young) have caught the measles.


It's an exceptionally serious issue.

originally posted by: PrinceRupertsDog
It is my understanding that measles is one of the most, if not THE most contagious virus known. The virus can survive on aerosols in the air for many hours.

Indeed.

Also, those infected with measles are contagious for as many as three days before symptoms show. It's as scary as diseases get.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord
If it was 100% effective, I might take the risk. No thanks, too much of a gamble of having complications and negative reactions, only to have the chance of catching it anyway. Then again, I also choose to live in the country, not in the city packed like a sardine, so it's way less of an issue for me to catch germs of any kind to begin with I guess.

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord

originally posted by: Rezlooper
If your kids are vaccinated, then what do you have to worry about? If your kids had the MMR, then why should you be worried? Shouldn't only the people who didn't vaccinate be worried about catching measles?

As has been previously indicated in this thread, the MMR vaccine (as are most vaccines) are not 100% effective. The more people who are vaccinated, the more the entire population is protected.

The woman who brought measles to Arizona from California was vaccinated.

Six children who caught measles here in Arizona from the resulting exposure, were vaccinated.

At least two (known) pre-vaccinated children (too young) have caught the measles.


It's an exceptionally serious issue.

So why such a high number of vaccinated children are getting sick? Sounds like it's about 10%. And why now, why this outbreak? If it's "not quite" 100% effective, should there still be such a high number of vaccinated children getting sick right now?