NLBS #35: The Anti-Vaccination Movement and the Measles Outbreak

a reply to: primus2012

Well, I did realize the error of my statement later on.



You are right, if you don't vaccinate your kids, you are only putting yours at risk, not mine.

So how about a bit of perspective here...

The stereotype in the top of the photo causes or is implicated with a measles outbreak of roughly 100 people, no deaths.

The stereotype in the bottom of the photo causes or is implicated with roughly 100,000 deaths, and 2 million serious injuries per year through the drugs they administer.

Not so cute. More like an outrage.

a reply to: AutumnWitch657

"Didn't we used to just call these kids shy? Kids who hid behind their mothers legs and peeked around them are now autistic. It's social conditioning. "

Um. Ok. Wow.

My son isn't "shy." He is non-verbal at age 13. He has aggressive behaviors, impulse control issues, sensory issues, etc. "Autism" is an umbrella diagnosis for a spectrum disorder. There are some kids who are higher functioning and others who are even more severe than my son, with debilitating seizures or head trauma from self inflicted injuries. Please don't think kids with autism are simply being diagnosed because they are shy. For the majority in the spectrum, it's is a serious medical issue. Brains of autistic individuals show an over abundance of neural paths, and there are numerous genetic differences that have been isolated too.

Ok. Sorry to interrupt the conversation on vaccines...

a reply to: UnderGetty

The stereotype in the bottom of the photo causes or is implicated with roughly 100,000 deaths, and 2 million serious injuries per year through the drugs they administer.

Of course you have links corroborating that claim.

a reply to: johnnyBgood

A scientist with an agenda would not be a scientist. That's the entire point of the scientific method man, removing bias. Just like journalists with an agenda aren't ethical journalists, they're spreading propaganda.

And you've done your research? Hubris. Blind faith in the face of facts available to you. I find your lack of science disturbing.

You're right, the vaccine isn't good enough. Infants are still at risk and there are still allergic reactions, not to mention the small population that can still get measles when vaccinated, and it's reliance on strength in numbers. This just means we should be working to improve it, not reject it in the name of paranoia. Trust me, if vaccinating ourselves meant we were safe nobody would care if folks vaccinated or not.

But... It is... It does matter. Children can die or be permanently injured. And there just isn't enough evidence that the vaccine is dangerous enough to warrant risking the public health. Unfortunately there's so much ignorance about this subject even with the information accessible that I'm concerned on how it will reflect other public health issues.

Also, I'm paraphrasing a sentiment here.

The government shouldn't make food service employees wash their hands after using the bathroom! It's their body they know best!

This is a case where what you do to your body affects other people.

The dark ages are coming back.What next i wonder...0

I have a dumb question. If someone's kid isn't vaccinated, but all the other kids are, then why the fear they'll catch measles? Isn't that the purpose of a vaccination, to be immunized? The only other kids whom would be at risk are the ones who didn't get vaccinated either.

So who's angry about the 'outbreak' ? The parents with vaccinated kids or the parents whom aren't?

a reply to: FlySolo

This was my first post in the thread where someone asked almost the exact same thing so I am just copy and pasting it here to answer your question.

I read your question and then the rest of the thread and didn't see where anyone answered you. Joe did a great job with the video but didn't go into detail explaining heard immunity and explaining just how contagious measles is.

First Measles is a highly contagious virus that lives in the nose and throat mucus of an infected person. It can spread to others through coughing and sneezing. Also, measles virus can live for up to two hours on a surface or in an airspace where the infected person coughed or sneezed. If other people breathe the contaminated air or touch the infected surface, then touch their eyes, noses, or mouths, they can become infected. Measles is so contagious that if one person has it, 90% of the people close to that person who are not immune will also become infected.

Infected people can spread measles to others from four days before to four days after the rash appears. An immune person who has touched an infected surface can carry the disease for up to 2 hours.

Some people are not eligible for the vaccines—such as infants, pregnant women, or immunocompromised individuals those people depend on herd immunity to protect them from the virus. Also, no vaccine is 100% effective, a small percentage of people are not protected after vaccination and for others the protection may wane over time. About 96% of the people immunized from measles have a life-long immunity to it.

So right off the bat 4 out of every 100 people that have been immunized depend on the other 96 that are to not spread the disease to them then you add the infants, pregnant women, or immunocompromised individuals they all depend on those who are immunized.

Here is one singular example how one contagious person not showing signs yet can spread the virus.

Imagine a person infected goes to the grocery store at some point coughs covering their mouth. At the checkout they punch in their pin number for a check card. That surface will be contagious for up to 2 hours and in that time every person who uses it has become an infected surface and if any of those people are unvaccinated they have a 90% chance of contracting the disease and spreading it even further. If any of those people have unvaccinated children that they come into contact within that 2-hour frame they have a 90% chance of infection.

If the rest of the people for the next 2 hours are immunized as well as those they come into contact with then the spread of the virus will be halted.


That is just one specific example I am sure you can imagine others or worse yet if they had coughed or sneezed at checkout without covering their mouth.

The "antivaxxers" movement is likely just a pumped up attempt to manipulate voters against candidates incorrectly aligned to the "movement." It will be used against strong candidates to open the playing field for Bush and Hillary (because it will take some real bipartisan hate and fear mongering to get one of these two families in office again) Click these words to visit my ATS thread on the subject.

I am pro MMR vaccinations. Had one myself along with everyone in my family and at my school. That said, it doesn't mean people shouldn't be allowed the right to choose. I expect this will be used against Rand Paul because they know his honesty will eventually lead him to say "ive been immunized and so have my children, but I believe it's a parents right to choose whether or not to vaccinate." Then of course they will say he's with the "antivaxxers" who they are making up as we type.

There is no growing movement, at least there wasn't, it was a media fabrication in preparation for use in the next election cycle, but like most media perpetuation's it may end up a real (albeit never what the claim) movement out of self fulfilling prophecy. The number of cases has remained steady at about 100 a year (out of 300 plus million) except last year when an Amish missionary brought back measles from the Phillippines and infected over 300 (something the media and perhaps NLBS will try to blame on an "antivaxxer" movement). The outbreak this year happened in Disneyland (a melting pot of foreigners from everywhere) and so could be from anywhere or very possibly from Mexico. Again, NLBS and other media are trying to blame a fictional organized group of "antivaxxers."

This is GogoVicMorrow, bringing you the MUEHW or Most Upper Echelon Hog-Wash. Thank you.

originally posted by: openlab
The problem is peoples immune systems are weak. Most eat processed foods, and do not get enough exercise. Thus the need for vaccines and other pharmaceuticals. Dr Russell Blaylock Neurosurgeon is strongly against vaccines and has never vaccinated his children. They eat healthy and juice regularly and NEVER have been sick. I will never allow a corporation to dictate what is injected into my body. For those who are pro vaccine, please go ahead, and reduce the surplus population. We are such a primitive species. Blindly following instead of being critically aware. You can call Dr Blaylock a bad parent, but be aware his IQ is over 160 so your primitive rebuttal will be irrelevant and insignificant.

"Dr" Blaylock is a retired neurosurgeon (nothing to do with vaccines. It's like saying a civil engineer is the same as a computer engineer) and he believes in chemtrails.
Yes, chemtrails.
QED.

originally posted by: aorAki

originally posted by: deadeyedick
Your biggest clue that they are jacking with us about the need for vaccines is them using the term "HERD" to describe all of us. nwo at its peak.

Good lord, you're insane

You insulted his intelligence so you must the one who is sane and correct.

originally posted by: UxoriousMagnus

450 a year used to die from measles before the vax......out of a country of almost 200 million at the time (that is .000237%). the measles were almost eradicated before the vax was developed. The measles went down to zero even though everyone wasn't getting the vax.

if you want to get the vax....go right ahead....then you will be safe from all of us crazy anti-vaxxers......right?

No...no...I know "heard immunity"....even though heard immunity wasn't accomplished back in the 1960's and measles went to zero.

And why can women have the right to choose if they abort a baby or not because we have no right to tell her what to do with her body but I can't choose to have something injected into my body or not?......oh, right because me catching a non-killing virus like measles might also make you catch it even though you got your vaccine for it and abortion doesn't affect anyone but the baby.......got it.......

the vaccine gives people measles and the vaccine kills more people than contracting measles does......

Why do people post mortality charts when they're trying to prove how the INCIDENCE of measles reduced without vaccines.
It's ludicrous!
Here's one that shows incidence of disease.


Medical advances coupled with slightly better living conditions (the conditions haven't improved significantly over the past 50 years, really) have reduced mortality from measles.
However it was only when the vaccine was introduced that the incidence (the number of cases for the hard of learning) reduced.
As you can see from this relatively recent outbreak in France, as the incidence rises so will morbidity (serious illness) and mortality (death).
ieet.org...
2 deaths per 1000 cases.
It's dishonest of you to show the numbers of deaths from measles from the whole population as the whole population will not have had measles. Why didn't you reference it against the incidence of measles?
Disingenuous much?
Even if you use the non-confirmed and vastly inflated numbers anti-vaxxers use for MMR related deaths (anything from 60 to 109 depending upon which anti-vax site you use. I mean, if the numbers are different which do you believe...?) when you put them next to the number of vaccinations which have been given, which have been in the tens of millions over the years, they are far less by several orders of magnitude.

Oh and it's HERD not heard.

originally posted by: satellite1
It's amazing how the perception of things varies from what country you're in.

The wonders of propaganda.

originally posted by: research100
a reply to: thebtheb

interesting...but...you do know that if a pregnant lady gets the measles, it can harm the baby..this happened to my father, his mom got the measles when she was pregnant with him...then,.when he was in his twenties, he had to have MAJOR surgery on his heart, he had a valve that was mostly blocked.....caused when his mom had the measles

Life isn't safe. You don't have a "right" to mandate risks to others so you can "feel" safer.

originally posted by: hearows

TL;DR
Learn to science.

Perhaps before telling people to "learn to science" you could teach yourself proper grammar. After that perhaps you could learn to think critically instead of acting as the mouthpiece of a corrupt state.

originally posted by: 0001391

originally posted by: hearows

TL;DR
Learn to science.

Perhaps before telling people to "learn to science" you could teach yourself proper grammar. After that perhaps you could learn to think critically instead of acting as the mouthpiece of a corrupt state.

Ah right.
So it's the corrupt state.
I fully understand where you are coming from now.

a reply to: Pardon?

Pardon by the way The Merck vaccine fraud lawsuit is going forward. A judge signed the motion in September.Just thought I would let you know.

www.rescuepost.com...

originally posted by: Aquariusdude
a reply to: Pardon?

Pardon by the way The Merck vaccine fraud lawsuit is going forward. A judge signed the motion in September.Just thought I would let you know.

www.rescuepost.com...

Yes, it's going forward, which means what exactly?
Has there been a decision yet?
No.

Are anti-vaxxers treating it like it's already been decided?
Yes.

Why?


All this means is that the court hasn't found a reason to dismiss the case, not that the people bringing it are in the right.
Dismissing a case is a big deal and isn't done lightly and if it was no doubt there would be cries of a cover-up by those of a conspiracy nature...

a reply to: Pardon?

You asked if it was going forward...The judge ruled there is enough evidence in the case to proceed..Even if the whistleblowers win the case. I doubt it will be enough for you..