To all the naysayers of Egyptian capablity

To all the naysayers who claim the egyptian weren't capable of building the pyramids, here is a link to how, who, what, and why the pyramids were built. I think it is necesary to post this in a separate topic than in each topic asserting the notion the egyptians did not or could not build the pyramids, and that it is simply my duty as an ATS member to 'deny ignorance'.

www.cdli.ca...

They've recreated this many times on smaller scales (so with less people) also. I've often wondered why many insist on not giving ancient man the credit he's due...

The quarry sites are still there, there are art examples showing the methods. There is just to much pointing to them doing so using intelligent methods, to believe that aliens helped them, or mental powers moved the stones, etc.

I find it funny that half the people on these boards think that ancient civilisation could do nothing for them selves and the other half think they were super advanced (more so than us).

I know I hate all these people that preach how Aliens are the only explaination to Giza. And the fact that we can't do it today is bs, its just that no one WANTS to do it today there isno will behind it. Cause now we have cars, and computer, and ATS.

I have to agree. The latest documentary I saw about the pyramids made it very clear that they were indeed built by those who lived there at the time & they were not built by aliens or slaves as some have suggested. They were buiit by the working class and they know this now because they have since dug up the workers temporary camps. From the way they ate, slept & were buried they have determined they were not slaves, but teams of workers with leaders and the teams competed against each other to complete projects for higher compensation.


[edit on 15-12-2004 by outsider]

Originally posted by outsider
From the way they ate, slept & were buried they have determined they were not slaves, but teams of workers with leaders and the teams competed against each other to complete projects for higher compensation. [edit on 15-12-2004 by outsider]

Amen man, I wounder why were are not being screamed at by the UFO/GIZA fans???

How do you explain how the oldest pyramids in Egypt are built perfectly and is so well preserved, yet pyramids built at later periods were built with less precision and less care, and most are now in very bad shape ? This would point to an ancient knowledge being passed down by a more advanced people to the earliest Egyptians, and subsenquently being forgotten by later generations of Egyptians. I would not believe that aliens built the pyramids, but do firmly believe in an advanced civilisation spreading their knowledge throughout the known world in ancient times.

Originally posted by outsider
I have to agree. The latest documentary I saw about the pyramids made it very clear that they were indeed built by those who lived there at the time & they were not built by aliens or slaves as some have suggested. They were buiit by the working class and they know this now because they have since dug up the workers temporary camps. From the way they ate, slept & were buried they have determined they were not slaves, but teams of workers with leaders and the teams competed against each other to complete projects for higher compensation.


[edit on 15-12-2004 by outsider]

Egyptian propaganda, Dr (if you could call him that) Zahi Hawass will not even listen to any other theory except the one that fits with what he believes.
There are lots of things to be taken with a grain of salt, and he is one of them.

Originally posted by celticniall
How do you explain how the oldest pyramids in Egypt are built perfectly and is so well preserved, yet pyramids built at later periods were built with less precision and less care, and most are now in very bad shape ?

Care to cite examples?

The Giza pyramids (which are among the last pyramids built) are in MUCH better shape than some of the older pyramids. Some of the oldest ones are basically a pile of rubble... as you can see if you read through the links at the beginning of this article.

And yes, we do know how to date them from the writings and from the lists of kings found in and around the pyramids.

Egyptian propaganda, Dr (if you could call him that) Zahi Hawass will not even listen to any other theory except the one that fits with what he believes.
There are lots of things to be taken with a grain of salt, and he is one of them.

It sounds like you're not very familiar with his career and his writings? If so, I think reading some of the things he wrote and seeing how his understanding of the ancient Egyptians has changed over the decades might be interesting to you.

I've discovered that a lot of sites that claim they "have problems" with Hawass' interpretations are generally sites from people who actually don't know a Middle Kingdom scarab from a Ptolomaic scarab (Hawass would) and can't tell a Bast amulet from Bubastis from any other workshop in Egypt (actually, I can do this, and I'm sure Hawass can as well.)

His deepest critics are those who don't know ancient Egyptian history and technology and who can't (unlike Hawass) read the hieroglyphics and have never read the texts for themselves (I can read them, but only a little bit.)

So what kinds of things do you "have problems with" in respect to Hawass? How familiar are you with him?

[edit on 16-12-2004 by Byrd]

"And yes, we do know how to date them from the writings and from the lists of kings found in and around the pyramids."



[edit on 16-12-2004 by Byrd]

I am fascinated by ancient civilisations, especially the Egyptians, and can tell you that the writings on the pyramids do not tell us anything, they only tell us that the pyramids were in use during that period. This, in my opinion, is not proof of their age.

Take the Sphinx for example, just because there is the "dream stone"? I think it is, with part of a name inscribed on it, doesn't mean it was built by that person. People point to the weathering on the Sphinx and the fact that the head is very disproportionate to its body as proof that it was built when Egypt had a tropical climate in 10,000-12,000BC. I just think that it points to a deeper mystery on who was behind the structures in Egypt. I believe that the Giza pyramids were not build by Khufu or any others around that time.

I don't know who built these structures, and don't claim to be correct in anything I say, but I believe that the Egyptians were not entirely responsible themselves for the Pyramids, Sphinx. etc. Yes, the Egyptian's used them and may even re-shaped and repaired, for example, the Sphinx, but I can see no proof that the Egyptians were responsible.
There is more evidence for the structures being older !

Apologies, I have not time to trawl through websites quoting passages for my arguement, but watch most documentaries on Nat. Geographic, Discovery, and Discovery Civilisations, and also read many Ancient Civ. books from the likes of Graham Hancock, Robert Bauval, etc.

I found an interesting website with a couple of different views on the age of the pyramids and the Sphinx.
www.world-mysteries.com...


[edit on 16-12-2004 by celticniall]

The link proves nothing. It is the same imformation that has been around for years. It like other sites suggest that the Pyramids were tombs. I would agree with that except in the case of the Great Pyramid of Giza. There is no evidence whatsoever that indicates that anyone was ever burried in it, and it is foolish to suggest that they went through all the trouble to build the Great Pyramid and not Bury anyone in it. It does not add up.

Further, only the Great Pyramid has the mathematical information of the earth encoded in it's demensions. Only the corners of the Great Pyramid are set at north, south, east and west. It is the only the Great Pyramid that sits in the exact center of the landmass of the earth. I don't care how advanced you would consider the Egyptians to have been, there is "NO WAY" they could have known where the center of landmass of the earth was located, neither could they have known the diameter of the earth, that information had to be "REVEALED" to them, and it could have only come from two sources,
Aliens or GOD.

"Further, only the Great Pyramid has the mathematical information of the earth encoded in it's demensions."

What on Earth are you talking about? Are you saying that the Great Pyramid has certain dimensions which are an exact proportion to the size of the Earth? If so, what is it? Is there any correlation between any of the pyramid's dimensions and "mathematical information of the earth"? And if so, how is it "encoded"? I have never heard anything like that at all.

"It is the only the Great Pyramid that sits in the exact center of the landmass of the earth."

How do you define the "exact center of the landmass of the earth", since there are more than one land mass? It's certainly not in the center of Africa, and it's not even in any other land mass. Tell me how you derive that information, please.

"I don't care how advanced you would consider the Egyptians to have been, there is "NO WAY" they could have known where the center of landmass of the earth was located, neither could they have known the diameter of the earth."

And how do you know that the pyramid is in the 'center of the landmass'?

What on Earth are you talking about? Are you saying that the Great Pyramid has certain dimensions which are an exact proportion to the size of the Earth? If so, what is it? Is there any correlation between any of the pyramid's dimensions and "mathematical information of the earth"? And if so, how is it "encoded"? I have never heard anything like that at all."


I have also heard this stated many times. If anyone can post any websites with this info, it would be very interesting to have a look.



[edit on 16-12-2004 by celticniall]

This link will provide you the answers to most of the questions you asked, there is another I will find shortly that shows the Great Pyramid sits in the center of the landmass of the earth, I have hundreds of files to look through.

Once you look through this information you too will conclude that "NO MAN" could possess this much knowledge about the universe. We are just begining to be able to determine these distances and diameters today.

www.crystalinks.com...

[edit on 16-12-2004 by Lastday Prophet]

Lastday prophet, that link you gave me not only contradicts you; it contradicts itself!

For example, it says:

"The Great Pyramid is the most accurately aligned structure in existence and faces true north with only 3/60th of a degree of error."

3 arc-minutes of accuracy, by modern standards, is a disaster. Most bridges, including highway overpasses, have to be aligned within three arc-seconds.

"The position of the North Pole moves over time and the pyramid was probably exactly aligned at one time."

"Probably"? There are several astronomy freeware and shareware programs out there that can tell you the exact location of Polaris, Vega, and all other stars near the pole, and this bozo doesn't even research that? Sloppy scholarship, lastday prophet. This site doesn't seem to be very serious about real reasearch.

Furthermore, it says:

"The average temperature of Egypt equals the average temperature of earth = avg. temperature of Queen's Chamber = 68 degrees Fahrenheit."

So what's surprising about that? Any large mass, whether above or below ground, is going to settle at the average temperature. It might take a hundred years to reach equilibrium, but it will, sooner or later. Big deal.

Finally, it says:

"The Great Pyramid is located at the center of the land mass of the earth. The east/west parallel that crosses the most land and the north/south meridian that crosses the most land intersect in two places on the earth, one in the ocean and the other at the Great Pyramid.'

Rubbish.

If you look at a map, the east-west parallel that crosses the most unbroken land is from near the Kamchatka peninsular to northwestern France, about fifteen hundred miles north of Egypt. The north-south meridian that crosses the most unbroken land stretches from the southern tip of India to Siberia, about three or four thousand miles east of Egypt.

Now lastday prophet, I don't want to whizz in your wheaties, but if you're going to get a bunch of stuff off a website and quote it as the gospel truth, you might want to do just about three or four minutes of basic research first; your credibility will go way up if you do.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
neither could they have known the diameter of the earth, that information had to be "REVEALED" to them, and it could have only come from two sources,
Aliens or GOD.

So, you're suggesting that Eratosthenes was told to do his experiment by either Aliens or GOD?

Eratosthenes made a surprisingly accurate measurement of the circumference of the Earth. Details were given in his treatise On the measurement of the Earth which is now lost. However, some details of these calculations appear in works by other authors such as Cleomedes, Theon of Smyrna and Strabo. Eratosthenes compared the noon shadow at midsummer between Syene (now Aswan on the Nile in Egypt) and Alexandria. He assumed that the sun was so far away that its rays were essentially parallel, and then with a knowledge of the distance between Syene and Alexandria, he gave the length of the circumference of the Earth as 250,000 stadia.

That means he had it accurate to within a few kilometers, using basic geometry that was well known at the time.

Granted, Eratosthenes lived long after the pyramids were built at Giza, but to suggest that it's impossible to figure out the circumference (and therefore, the diameter) of the Earth without satellites or other modern technology is a bit disingenuous.

No, Whiskey Jack, I think what he is getting at is the fact that the only way the egyptians could have know the diameter was to have known about pi, which didn't come about until Archimedes.

The last video documentaries I've seen showed several flaws in the pyramids and how changes were made during the construction to compensate for those mistakes in design or construction - much like we see in buildings today.

Why does everyone assume that people back then were incapable of building such great structures? I have yet to see something built over there that we couldn't do today - if we had the incentive. Why does it always have to be some outside race that built them, because mankind (or egyptians) was too inept back the to achieve great things?




[edit on 17-12-2004 by outsider]

I did a reasearch paper on the demensions and possible theorys as to how the pyramids were designed and built about two years ago. I don't remember most of the details, I have a horribe memory when it comes to statistical facts, I do remember how impressed I was with what I was reading. The pyramids position and how they are aligned astronomicly is very interesting.

Originally posted by Frosty
No, Whiskey Jack, I think what he is getting at is the fact that the only way the egyptians could have know the diameter was to have known about pi, which didn't come about until Archimedes.

The Egyptians did have a basic idea of pi, as did the Babylonians and the ancient Chinese (that we know about). Theirs was also the most accurate of the three, with (16/9)^2 recorded on the Rhind Papyrus. In fact, that's also more accurate than the version of pi recorded over a thousand years later in the book of Kings!

Even if they hadn't known pi, there's plenty of ways to arrive at pi accidentally. Measuring a distance by counting the revolutions of a drum is probably the simplest.