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Forcing perfectly healthy people to take medical treatments at the point of a gun.

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posted on Jan, 30 2015 @ 09:25 PM
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originally posted by: rebelv
The measles vaccination, and actually its an inoculation not
a vaccination because they actually inject live measles into you
which causes about one out of three persons who receive the inoculation
to actually come down with measles.

Really? There are about four million births in the US each year. About 90% of them receive MMR. People also get MMR when matriculating in college in some states, and military inductees get it. So there are maybe five or six million persons getting vaccinated each year, meaning almost 2 million measles cases, right?

Where are they?




posted on Jan, 30 2015 @ 10:17 PM
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originally posted by: abe froman
Anyone not vaccinating their child is an idiot and should be charged with criminal negligence and child abuse.

I appreciate everyone's right to hold on to whatever ridiculous views,secular or religious, they cling to but, this doesn't extend to the harming of others through action or inaction.

Advocates of Christian Science will straight up let their children die because of their ridiculous notions and this new anti-vaccination stance is like bringing back blood letting.

Ever hear of polio?

The real problem is anti-vacc idiots are going to lead to the resurgence of a lot of diseases we almost eraicated.

Like measles at Disneyland.

Your right to be an idiot does not trump the safety of others.


...and an hour later this is the new episode of NLBS.


I could not agree more. If people want to risk their child getting sick, that is their right, until it starts to cause an increase in the risk of MY child getting sick. Then your rights end, as far as I am concerned.



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 12:14 AM
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I think it's every individual's responsibility to learn all they can about vaccines.

My story is this: My children are completely vaccinated, but only after I studied, researched, and weighed my options. I was very hesitant on the chicken pox vaccine. I was fully vaccinated as well, thought I had all the medical records to show for it but for whatever reason when I went into the medical field and had my blood-work taken the MMR was absent from these tests. Apparently they vaccinated the serum in separate stages when I was younger coming out with the combination later. I had to take the MMR again but once again researched what this would do to me. I asked questions. I didn't take answers at face value. I proceeded to get the MMR again.

One vaccine I never will take again is the flu vaccine. I took it for three years. (I have never had my children take the flu vaccine.) And I never will again. This was the exception to my research ironically enough. I didn't bother reading about it, or researching it. But every year I took this vaccine I got sick within one week of the shot (2 hypodermic needle, one nasal), and once ended up in the hospital with fevers so high they caused hallucinations. I thought it was safe and effective. That is what the media touts. Perhaps it was coincidence, but I have never taken the flu shot since, and also have never gotten the flu again.

My refusal is not because I am anti-vaccination, but now because I understand the unstable nature of the virus. While the flu can kill (and does each year), and 'the science is in' that it is safe - I just don't buy it. Not with my experience and the testimonials I have read and heard first-hand of perfectly healthy people being hospitalized after receiving it.

Were my children prone to illness, I might reconsider revisiting the subject. Were there great advances made in this vaccine I would revisit it, but the pharm. companies are using the same methods for the flu vaccine they've used since it's inception - which is a string of 'best guesses'. When my children are of age, I will let them do their own research and opt in or out of the flu vaccine. As I said. I think it's an individual choice.



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 03:39 AM
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originally posted by: undo

originally posted by: Pardon?

originally posted by: undo

originally posted by: Pardon?

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Pardon?

you haven't ruined the view i have of him, because i'm actually a survivor of a botched vaccine that killed alot of people, not just vets but family members and friends, as well. don't get all uppity-up with me.


I don't get "uppity-up" (whatever that means) with anyone.
As long as they don't put words into my mouth anyway.



so you wanna explain how i got "Via the air" brainstem encephalitis in a geographical place where the odds of getting it were 1,000,000 to 1, and without any known cause of said infection? start whenever you're ready.


Not really no, as I'm not your physician.
And it's nothing to do with what I was saying about Nicolson.



if you can't explain it, and dr. nicolson can, i think that means you don't know what you're talking about. ya see, i actually lived it. you didn't. and he actually studied it, you didn't. i know what my doctors said at the time. you don't.



No, it doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about, it means I don't know or want to know, about your specific case.
I've shown you where he's wrong and in my experience if someone's very wrong in one area it's unlikely that they're correct in another.
You're not the sharpest knife in the drawer are you?



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 03:42 AM
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originally posted by: undo
is it possible they only recently started requiring testing for mycoplasms in vaccines? in that event, that would make new vaccines at least that much safer, but still would suggest that people currently suffering with nerve related degradation, may be suffering from mycoplasmic infections that were present in vaccines they received in the past, before the vaccines were tested for mycoplasms.


No, tests were put in place in the 1960's.
www.americanpharmaceuticalreview.com...

For someone who's "done a lot of research" you don't seem to have "done a lot of research".



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 03:52 AM
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I know more people that got sick from the Swine flu vaccine than people that actually got the Swine flu. I know nobody that actually got the Swine flu.



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 06:25 AM
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a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

Who programmed your thought process? That is the important issue you need to answer for yourself. Your thinking fits neatly into a trope and follows a very distinct lineage, so do not mistake other people's thought process as manipulated but yours as pure.

Only one of those is supported by science. The other most definitely is not.
edit on 31-1-2015 by Leonidas because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 06:40 AM
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a reply to: Flesh699

I've had one flu vaccine in my life and was sicker than spit.. ill never get another flu shot AGAIN...my girl gets it every year and ends up sick..



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 12:37 PM
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a reply to: Pardon?

from your link

Although mycoplasma contamination of biological products has been recognized for many years, there still is no global consensus regarding the most appropriate test methods for all products, as evidenced by the variations in the regulatory and compendial requirements and guidance recommendations. It may not be possible to put forth a “one size fits all” test procedure due to the diversity of the potential mycoplasma contaminants and differences in the products that need to be evaluated.


as i mentioned earlier, i'm not sure they even knew the stuff was in the vaccine. various strains means mycoplasms are mutating, just like everything else with dna in it, does.


Thus, those fastidious strains could escape detection using the broth and agar culture procedures required in 21 CFR 610.30. As a result of these findings, the mycoplasma laboratory headed by Dr. M.F. Barile at FDA worked out conditions for an “indicator cell” assay to detect those strains of mycoplasma that do not grow using the broth and agar culture procedures [2].


pretty good example, that while they may have been trying, they didn't recognize some strains were even there because they "escaped detection" using the normal methods


While EP 2.6.7 provided a section (for information) on the validation of nucleic acid amplification techniques (NAT) for the detection of mycoplasmas, USP states only that alternative methods must be suitably validated but does not address validation requirements for alternate methods.


if no validation requirements are present for alternate methods, what are the odds some labs just see that as a loophole, and don't use any alternate methods?



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 01:55 PM
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originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Pardon?

from your link

Although mycoplasma contamination of biological products has been recognized for many years, there still is no global consensus regarding the most appropriate test methods for all products, as evidenced by the variations in the regulatory and compendial requirements and guidance recommendations. It may not be possible to put forth a “one size fits all” test procedure due to the diversity of the potential mycoplasma contaminants and differences in the products that need to be evaluated.


as i mentioned earlier, i'm not sure they even knew the stuff was in the vaccine. various strains means mycoplasms are mutating, just like everything else with dna in it, does.


Thus, those fastidious strains could escape detection using the broth and agar culture procedures required in 21 CFR 610.30. As a result of these findings, the mycoplasma laboratory headed by Dr. M.F. Barile at FDA worked out conditions for an “indicator cell” assay to detect those strains of mycoplasma that do not grow using the broth and agar culture procedures [2].


pretty good example, that while they may have been trying, they didn't recognize some strains were even there because they "escaped detection" using the normal methods


While EP 2.6.7 provided a section (for information) on the validation of nucleic acid amplification techniques (NAT) for the detection of mycoplasmas, USP states only that alternative methods must be suitably validated but does not address validation requirements for alternate methods.


if no validation requirements are present for alternate methods, what are the odds some labs just see that as a loophole, and don't use any alternate methods?


It's all very well getting embroiled in the minutiae and I'm sure you believe this is pertinent to you as an individual.

However, this all becomes insignificant when applied to the publically available vaccines which are out now.
These have been continuously proven to be safe over a number of years and in some cases decades so the question of whether specific types, strains or whatever of mycoplasma are present as they've escaped detection is moot.
As if there are, they don't cause any issues.

This seems a very similar argument to mercury and other adjuvants being present in vaccines.
Pointless when compared to the end result.



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 02:09 PM
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a reply to: Pardon?

one of the strains is spiroplasm. that has an interesting write up (insect based/ mosquitoes, ticks, etc). the issue is, if they can't guarantee and have not been able to guarantee in the past, that vaccines were/were not infected with mycoplasms they had yet to discover a suitable test for, i think the point IS relevant. forcing people to take vaccines/inoculations for something that may or may not contain yet other undiscovered strains of infectious agents, is not logical. it's playing russian roulette with the populace.

while i agree that polio vaccines and similarly amazing vaccines, have done great things, it doesn't help the situation to solve one problem while introducing another. because mycoplasms are slow growing and can "disguise" themselves, related infections can grow unchecked over long periods of time, doing massive cellular damage.

mycoplasm fermentans is also known as mycoplasm pneumoniae, which has the potential to end up in flu vaccines as well. what a mess. there must be a safer and more reliable method.



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 02:57 PM
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I'll tell them the real deal. You either pull the trigger or get away from me now. I'd rather go fast than slow. I'll take the beating but I will not consent to a vaccine. I am healthy. I never been in a clinic or hospital in 30+ years. I never get the flu and a cold every other year or so. A day or two with the sniffles at most. It seems to me that my genetics and immune system has it all covered. Why would I want to change that? I'm not going to do so.

I had the measles as a child and again in my early adult years. I can probably chalk that up to the vaccine. I don't know for sure. How many pharmaceuticals are now being seen as what they are? Side effects that outweigh what it was originally intended to help with. Some of the side effects are mental conditions where a person kills their whole family. You are asking me to take something without a long trial run that you don't even know how it'll affect my chemistry or mind. No thank you.

I wonder if it's like this. I am getting funding for some research into a disease. I have to show progress or they pull that funding. I make something up or go with what works at the moment without the trials. Humans can be wrong.

You don't fix it if it's not broke. Just my two cents on the subject. I'm sure someone with a medical background can school me on that paragraph above this one.



posted on Jan, 31 2015 @ 04:37 PM
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originally posted by: FurvusRexCaeli

originally posted by: rebelv
The measles vaccination, and actually its an inoculation not
a vaccination because they actually inject live measles into you
which causes about one out of three persons who receive the inoculation
to actually come down with measles.

Really? There are about four million births in the US each year. About 90% of them receive MMR. People also get MMR when matriculating in college in some states, and military inductees get it. So there are maybe five or six million persons getting vaccinated each year, meaning almost 2 million measles cases, right?

Where are they?


Maybe the measles inoculation has evolved and
become better than when I was a kid 40 years ago
when I got it.

Also, the odds might have been greater for me, because
about two weeks earlier I received a mandatory multi-
vaccination. The list my parents were given that was in
the injection was for diphtheria, scarlet fever, polio, small
pox and it also included measles but the school neglected to
print that on the list, so when some kids came down with measles
at the school they recommended I get a measles vaccination when
I had already received one a couple weeks earlier.

That's what they told my parents, that there was a risk if coming
down with measles, and If my memory serves me right they said
it was about a 33% chance BUT they said if I did come down with it
it would be a milder case.

Anyway, I actually agree that measles should be added to the
required list, but only measles, and only for kids, not for the govt to jump
on the bandwagon and give themselves the authority to start injecting
people with whatever they want.

Rebel 5



posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 09:07 AM
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originally posted by: Pardon?

originally posted by: Hecate666

originally posted by: abe froman
Anyone not vaccinating their child is an idiot and should be charged with criminal negligence and child abuse.

I appreciate everyone's right to hold on to whatever ridiculous views,secular or religious, they cling to but, this doesn't extend to the harming of others through action or inaction.

Ever hear of polio?

The real problem is anti-vacc idiots are going to lead to the resurgence of a lot of diseases we almost eraicated.

Your right to be an idiot does not trump the safety of others.


...and an hour later this is the new episode of NLBS.


As someone who has developed M.E and has lost a professional career, plus a normal social life, plus a lot of pain and exhaustion every day, YOU make me angry.

Here is just ONE of many accounts that link M.E. to your precious polio vaccine:
www.whale.to...

There are more but you can look them up yourself.

I should be a healthy individual, living my life but thanks to the polio vaccine I received in the 60s I have a 'milder form' of polio from a vaccine that should have protected me.

The truth is that we just don't know the real consequences of a vaccine.
I mean Heroin was once hailed as the safest and best medicine you could get. We are not gods and we do not understand how intertwined nature is. Nothing is 100% safe.

Now I hear you say that the risk of a vaccine is worth not catching polio, as you can see above, I disagree. I would happily take my chance with polio about but I didn't have a say as a baby, nor did anyone know about the consequences then.

I am also one of those people who only had the real flu [not a cold] twice in my life. The first when I was 9yrs old and the second a day after getting an anti flu shot. I felt so bad, I will never have one again.
Why should I? These anti flu vaccines could kill an elderly person who may have never got the flu in the first place.

Then we talk about nurses. They should be at home when ill, and not prance around vulnerable people.
Because when they are vaccined, they personally may not get ill but they sure as hell can still be carriers. Only, nobody would know that they are. I rather have them stay away.

I also totally despise the way that people who LOVE vaccines think they have a right to call others names. Who do you think you are? We find out more and more about the bad side of vaccines but you are so brainwashed by propaganda that you have lost the ability to inform yourself and then form an updated opinion. Why on earth should I be insulted by a person like that, when I sit here 'enjoying' the side effects of my vaccine?



When did you get your vaccine and how long after did you develop ME?

Certainly current theories suggest that ME is more likely initiated after a viral infection.
If that is the case then it would rule vaccines out.

Certainly an unsubstantiated article from the infamous Whale doesn't lend any credence to your belief.
Although it's perfectly natural to look for blame, I think you're looking in the wrong place.



I actually NEED to answer that.
First of all, I have read so much about this but just typed M.E and polio into google and chose the first one that came up. If it is from a nefarious website, there are many many more, which I will list in a moment even though nobody will actually read through them.

Before that I'd like to answer when I got the polio vaccine and how long it took to have symptoms.
I received the vaccine on 1967. I had very mild CFS symptoms all my life but they were in no way strong enough to think that there was something out of the ordinary. It all went gradually worse. I knew something was really wrong about 10 years ago, I was 37 then. With each year it is getting worse.
Make of that whatever you wish.

Her are different sources for myclaim about CFS/M.E and a polio link. Mind you, there won't ever be 'official' sources because that will never happen whilst these vaccines are pushed. It is logic really, so don't blame me if I don't have a FDA report.

www.sciencedirect.com...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

www.vaccinationcouncil.org...

www.investinme.org...

therefusers.com...

www.anapsid.org...

barbfeick.com...

factslides.com


And more...

Choose which scientific papers, anecdotal evidence, studies etc you find more reliable than my original link. And remember some of these studies have been going on since the 30's. They have always suspected a link. Closing your ears and shouting "all references are crap" won't make this go away for me or other people who have contracted this illness since vaccines were administered without knowing the side effects.



posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 09:10 AM
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a reply to: abe froman

I have never had a vaccine, also i have never ever been sick! I am 42 ys old.



posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 12:20 PM
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originally posted by: Hecate666

originally posted by: Pardon?

originally posted by: Hecate666

originally posted by: abe froman
Anyone not vaccinating their child is an idiot and should be charged with criminal negligence and child abuse.

I appreciate everyone's right to hold on to whatever ridiculous views,secular or religious, they cling to but, this doesn't extend to the harming of others through action or inaction.

Ever hear of polio?

The real problem is anti-vacc idiots are going to lead to the resurgence of a lot of diseases we almost eraicated.

Your right to be an idiot does not trump the safety of others.


...and an hour later this is the new episode of NLBS.


As someone who has developed M.E and has lost a professional career, plus a normal social life, plus a lot of pain and exhaustion every day, YOU make me angry.

Here is just ONE of many accounts that link M.E. to your precious polio vaccine:
www.whale.to...

There are more but you can look them up yourself.

I should be a healthy individual, living my life but thanks to the polio vaccine I received in the 60s I have a 'milder form' of polio from a vaccine that should have protected me.

The truth is that we just don't know the real consequences of a vaccine.
I mean Heroin was once hailed as the safest and best medicine you could get. We are not gods and we do not understand how intertwined nature is. Nothing is 100% safe.

Now I hear you say that the risk of a vaccine is worth not catching polio, as you can see above, I disagree. I would happily take my chance with polio about but I didn't have a say as a baby, nor did anyone know about the consequences then.

I am also one of those people who only had the real flu [not a cold] twice in my life. The first when I was 9yrs old and the second a day after getting an anti flu shot. I felt so bad, I will never have one again.
Why should I? These anti flu vaccines could kill an elderly person who may have never got the flu in the first place.

Then we talk about nurses. They should be at home when ill, and not prance around vulnerable people.
Because when they are vaccined, they personally may not get ill but they sure as hell can still be carriers. Only, nobody would know that they are. I rather have them stay away.

I also totally despise the way that people who LOVE vaccines think they have a right to call others names. Who do you think you are? We find out more and more about the bad side of vaccines but you are so brainwashed by propaganda that you have lost the ability to inform yourself and then form an updated opinion. Why on earth should I be insulted by a person like that, when I sit here 'enjoying' the side effects of my vaccine?



When did you get your vaccine and how long after did you develop ME?

Certainly current theories suggest that ME is more likely initiated after a viral infection.
If that is the case then it would rule vaccines out.

Certainly an unsubstantiated article from the infamous Whale doesn't lend any credence to your belief.
Although it's perfectly natural to look for blame, I think you're looking in the wrong place.



I actually NEED to answer that.
First of all, I have read so much about this but just typed M.E and polio into google and chose the first one that came up. If it is from a nefarious website, there are many many more, which I will list in a moment even though nobody will actually read through them.

Before that I'd like to answer when I got the polio vaccine and how long it took to have symptoms.
I received the vaccine on 1967. I had very mild CFS symptoms all my life but they were in no way strong enough to think that there was something out of the ordinary. It all went gradually worse. I knew something was really wrong about 10 years ago, I was 37 then. With each year it is getting worse.
Make of that whatever you wish.

Her are different sources for myclaim about CFS/M.E and a polio link. Mind you, there won't ever be 'official' sources because that will never happen whilst these vaccines are pushed. It is logic really, so don't blame me if I don't have a FDA report.

www.sciencedirect.com...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

www.vaccinationcouncil.org...

www.investinme.org...

therefusers.com...

www.anapsid.org...

barbfeick.com...

factslides.com


And more...

Choose which scientific papers, anecdotal evidence, studies etc you find more reliable than my original link. And remember some of these studies have been going on since the 30's. They have always suspected a link. Closing your ears and shouting "all references are crap" won't make this go away for me or other people who have contracted this illness since vaccines were administered without knowing the side effects.





I've looked through all of them.
The first one just describes what CFS is and suggests that viral infections have a part to play in it starting.
It doesn't mention vaccines at all.

The NCBI link is just an abstract, essentially someone's opinion (aside from the fact that the author is a known anti-vaxxer who has even invented a new syndrome, ASIA syndrome to fit in with his "research").

The third is an article which references several other articles, none of which show a causal link.

The fourth is a collation of articles by a yoga teacher, again none of which show a causal link to the polio vaccine.

The fifth shows a court judgement, not medical research.
That's like asking a paediatrician to be your lawyer.

The sixth is just a rehash of the yoga teacher's article.

The seventh references link number two.

The eighth link doesn't work.
I expect that one was the definitive study into it eh?



So lots of links but no evidence, just opinion.



posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 12:50 PM
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originally posted by: bubbabuddha
If one can argue for vaccination by force through a "Vaccine Czar", then the same for "Climate Czars", "Internet Czars", "Ebola Czars" etc. Why not forced sterilization? Why let people have kids then? If kids are the problem then just stop having them. I'll let you force vaccinate me when I can force sterilize your kids....deal? Maybe we could make a law that if one needs a vaccine to survive than they should be marked for sterilization, so the genes don't continue. Only genes that can survive and withstand natures most virulent bugs should be allowed to reproduce. And then we are done with vaccines. Same with allergies right? But since the environment maybe so polluted no genes will ever be able to keep up with all the changes. If people are too weak to survive now, then maybe we need to bring back things like DDT? Most of the rest of the world didn't get sprayed with DDT like we did, we effectively eradicated most of these diseases spread by bugs. But in the 70s a progressive showed that DDT causes cancer and it was banned and Africa never was able to take advantage of it. Same with sanitation for Africa, billions for vaccines but nothing with regard to sanitation or pollution. these places with all these diseases are pollutant dumping grounds....disease need more than just viruses to kill us, they need weakened systems, pollution, etc. People with vested interests, desire a carbon tax, they desire legal immunity for vaccine damages, and drugs as well. These are investments, 401ks, industry and workers employed by these businesses. People also own stocks, what would be better than a forced purchase for a stock portfolio? People like to say it's for the kids and that the kids are rarely harmed by them, but what happens when you or your kid end up with a auto immune disorder of "unknown origin/cause"? And your doctor tells you that, "well, you can take these steroids for the rest of your life" as the "solution"? When I hear that come out of the mouth of a health professional, I actually desire that they could be sterilized, I think to myself, if you can force vaccines, I can legislate and force your kids to be sterilized to make the planet "green" for the Climate "Czars" that everyone agrees with in science. See how in Climate and medical drugs the science maybe all in, no need for you to investigate the history of these "scientists" since they are all in agreement now, nevermind the past, and nevermind that there are skeptics in all of these fields and honest people that will not lie to get a nice check in the mail from the largest industry in the world "chemicals". Also when you look into NGO's....there are billions to be made "promoting" so called "global warming" and "man made climate change"....apparently people can only imagine that oil companies would ever conspire or just the Koch Brothers...forget about the hundreds of billions that flow out of Tides, Ford and Rockefeller and Gates Foundations.


^I see impenetrable wall of words. Must.. not... get... lost in wall of letters. Please, Oh please, Paragraph Gods, save me from this wall of words!



posted on Feb, 1 2015 @ 02:12 PM
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a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

Links? Articles? Pictures? I am sorry sir but i need to know what we are talking about instead of "They". This is concerning issue you are talking about i agree, but i need a little bit more information.



posted on Feb, 2 2015 @ 06:46 AM
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Umm
we have lived in the rural area for most of my daughters life and used a well.

No fluoride treatment at all and her teeth are great no cavities in 9 years.

So we need fluoride why?



posted on Feb, 2 2015 @ 07:00 AM
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originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

Imagine you are stranded on an island with 100 people. And you are in charge.

Imagine that some bird brought a bird flu onto your island and people are getting sick.

It hasn't spread to all the population yet.

One of the people on the island figures out a way to make a vaccine that can keep everyone from getting sick.

But some people don't want to risk taking the vaccine because the way it was made wasn't 100% free of contaminants.

The disease is slowly spreading........

Do you force them to take the vaccine? Or let them risk infection and passing the disease to others?

tick tock.


Let them choose. ether way in the end the ones that survive will have built up a resistance. And the one's that survive will be "selective" ether by being smart and taking the shot or being naturally healthy. Ether case passes along good genes



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