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Forcing perfectly healthy people to take medical treatments at the point of a gun.

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posted on Jan, 29 2015 @ 02:12 PM
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There is a major conspiracy happening right now and it leads to a profoundly scary place.

What kind of a person would advocate taking a perfectly healthy human with no signs of illness and force them to take a medical treatment that, statistically speaking, may injure or kill them? Volunteer? OK sure. Parents consent for children? At least that resembles free will. Take recreational drugs? That's definitely free will.

But....

How could a coherent set of personal morals lead to this type of "medical" intervention by coercion and/or force?
How could a person possessing any sense of human rights or natural law, participate or stand silent while it happens?
How could Doctors sworn to "do no harm" even consider it?

If you are one of these people, don't be offended. I'm not judging you --but you have to understand how subversive and dangerous you really are. You are putting yourself in some scary company. Nazis were one famous example. Experimentation on slaves and prisoners, experimentation on people without their knowledge. Never mind these were some of the very same pharma enterprises we are still dealing with today. These are whole classes of behaviors that are generally considered to be barbaric.

If you still stand by your beliefs, you have to ask yourself; How far would you go?

What if there was a vaccine that a profit machine told you could prevent mental illness? What if there was a vaccine or a treatment to make people want to take all available vaccines? Would you force people? Would you steal their children like Nazis? There could come a day when you are asked to endorse these Orwellian measures in return for some small reward. I see this day coming.

I implore you think beyond the programming and consider the value of natural law in this confused world we live in. Resist the profit machines and their programming. Seek power not authority and persuade others to do the same. Do it now before it's to late.



+43 more 
posted on Jan, 29 2015 @ 02:16 PM
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Good luck man. My sister is a nurse and swears by the flu vacc. Gets one every year, and every year gets sicker than a dog. I've not gotten any shots since I was young, and I never get sick for years at a time and I work with the public. It's programming at its finest.



posted on Jan, 29 2015 @ 02:18 PM
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The only time I care about whether or not you choose to vaccinate is when I am thinking about a set of parents with their precious baby who is too young to be vaccinated ... and your decision to not vaccinate winds up putting that child in the ground because you took your chances, got sick and then gave that child a disease that ended up either killing or crippling them.

At that point, your choice killed someone whose parents didn't make the choice to take the risk. They couldn't choose yet. They were powerless, so you basically chose for them, and your choice killed their kid.

When we find a way to avoid that. You can definitely do with yourself as you please.
edit on 29-1-2015 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 29 2015 @ 02:19 PM
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a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

So that's what happened to Renee Zellweger.

Kind of lost me though. Are you talking about vaccinations? For adults or childen? There are medical procedures which are mandatory in some cities, the addition of fluoride to the water could be easily defined as a medical procedure (less cavities for the kiddies is often cited as a reason for its addition). Thanks for the topic and the passion you bring to it, but maybe define what you mean a bit more so we can all respond well.



posted on Jan, 29 2015 @ 02:30 PM
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a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

Thanks for this thread, Inverse. Dutifully bumped.

Last time I checked, and could be wrong the last flu vacc
had a 30% success rate. That was just for the flu.

I wonder with all the variants out there floating around
that were once ebola, and now getting doctored into brand
new strains by the Centers for Disease Creation..... how
can one expect success at all in stopping it with a needle?



posted on Jan, 29 2015 @ 02:56 PM
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I am glad you brought this up. Let me ask you, as I am a little confused with some of the materials I have read on this.

1. Do mothers that breast feed pass natural defenses onto babies when they breastfeed?
2. Do mothers pass on inoculations in the same manner?
3. Are they (the naturally passed on defenses) really destroyed quicker?


If it is true that a child would gain the defenses from a natural source such as breast milk, why chance killing them or causing mental defect? If they can come after people for not inoculating, like they do, shouldn't they go after the people who don't breastfeed? I have been wondering this myself for some time.


+4 more 
posted on Jan, 29 2015 @ 03:24 PM
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Anyone not vaccinating their child is an idiot and should be charged with criminal negligence and child abuse.

I appreciate everyone's right to hold on to whatever ridiculous views,secular or religious, they cling to but, this doesn't extend to the harming of others through action or inaction.

Advocates of Christian Science will straight up let their children die because of their ridiculous notions and this new anti-vaccination stance is like bringing back blood letting.

Ever hear of polio?

The real problem is anti-vacc idiots are going to lead to the resurgence of a lot of diseases we almost eraicated.

Like measles at Disneyland.

Your right to be an idiot does not trump the safety of others.


...and an hour later this is the new episode of NLBS.
edit on 29-1-2015 by abe froman because: last line


+17 more 
posted on Jan, 29 2015 @ 04:24 PM
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originally posted by: abe froman
Anyone not vaccinating their child is an idiot and should be charged with criminal negligence and child abuse.


I disagree.

The worse you can say about an "anti-vacc idiot" is that they are wrong. At least they made an effort to inform themselves about something, they didn't blindly trust what pharmaceutical companies or government told them, and they made a decision that they believed was in the best interest of their children based on the information they had available and their ability to process that information [level of education].

Even if they are wrong, they tried to do what they thought was right.

One could just as easily say that it's neglect to allow your children to be pumped full of chemicals, when all you know about said chemicals is what the company that sold them tells you.

Save the abuse and neglect charges for the parents that let their children become gang-bangers, or prostitutes.



posted on Jan, 29 2015 @ 04:28 PM
link   

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
There is a major conspiracy happening right now and it leads to a profoundly scary place.

What kind of a person would advocate taking a perfectly healthy human with no signs of illness and force them to take a medical treatment that, statistically speaking, may injure or kill them? Volunteer? OK sure. Parents consent for children? At least that resembles free will. Take recreational drugs? That's definitely free will.

But....

How could a coherent set of personal morals lead to this type of "medical" intervention by coercion and/or force?
How could a person possessing any sense of human rights or natural law, participate or stand silent while it happens?
How could Doctors sworn to "do no harm" even consider it?

If you are one of these people, don't be offended. I'm not judging you --but you have to understand how subversive and dangerous you really are. You are putting yourself in some scary company. Nazis were one famous example. Experimentation on slaves and prisoners, experimentation on people without their knowledge. Never mind these were some of the very same pharma enterprises we are still dealing with today. These are whole classes of behaviors that are generally considered to be barbaric.

If you still stand by your beliefs, you have to ask yourself; How far would you go?

What if there was a vaccine that a profit machine told you could prevent mental illness? What if there was a vaccine or a treatment to make people want to take all available vaccines? Would you force people? Would you steal their children like Nazis? There could come a day when you are asked to endorse these Orwellian measures in return for some small reward. I see this day coming.

I implore you think beyond the programming and consider the value of natural law in this confused world we live in. Resist the profit machines and their programming. Seek power not authority and persuade others to do the same. Do it now before it's to late.


Hyperbole definition.
en.m.wikipedia.org...

Godwin's Law.
en.m.wikipedia.org...

You used them both.
Your argument is therefore invalid.



posted on Jan, 29 2015 @ 04:33 PM
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originally posted by: VictorVonDoom

originally posted by: abe froman
Anyone not vaccinating their child is an idiot and should be charged with criminal negligence and child abuse.


I disagree.

The worse you can say about an "anti-vacc idiot" is that they are wrong. At least they made an effort to inform themselves about something, they didn't blindly trust what pharmaceutical companies or government told them, and they made a decision that they believed was in the best interest of their children based on the information they had available and their ability to process that information [level of education].

Even if they are wrong, they tried to do what they thought was right.

One could just as easily say that it's neglect to allow your children to be pumped full of chemicals, when all you know about said chemicals is what the company that sold them tells you.

Save the abuse and neglect charges for the parents that let their children become gang-bangers, or prostitutes.


Wrong.
Anti-vaxxers, the majority anyway, subscribe to a belief and irrespective of the science, facts and evidence presented to them refuse to change that belief.
Those who properly research and ask those who comprehend more than they do tend to stop being anti-vax.
Thankfully the vast majority of rational, sane adults are like this.
But as they say, one bad apple...


+2 more 
posted on Jan, 29 2015 @ 04:52 PM
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originally posted by: abe froman
Anyone not vaccinating their child is an idiot and should be charged with criminal negligence and child abuse.

I appreciate everyone's right to hold on to whatever ridiculous views,secular or religious, they cling to but, this doesn't extend to the harming of others through action or inaction.



While I understand your point, it is not as if vaccines are 100% safe. Anyone getting a vaccination is, statistically speaking, taking a chance. So what would you say to those people who, pushed into getting vaccinated, ended up with some debilitating illness? Too bad for you? It would be one thing if it were 100% safe, but this is not the case. There have been people who had horrible reactions. There would not be many scientists willing to even attempt to prove that there was a correlation between vaccinations and adverse health effects. I don't know how much literature is available on such reactions, but one would be hard-pressed to prove that negative reactions did not occur based upon the medical literature alone...because the medical literature does not represent the pinnacle of medical knowledge. It is a fluid and ever-increasing record.

Anyway, my main point was that should people be forced to vaccinate when there is a chance for serious problems? And I know what some will say, so let me ask this: what odds are acceptable. If there were a 50/50 chance that a person would have some horrible reaction, of course people wouldn't push for a certain vaccination. If there is a 1% chance, is this an acceptable risk? Should this be up to the person getting vaccinated, since they are the ones who have to live with the negative aspects, if they arise? But then you mentioned that other people would have to suffer for some people not vaccinating, but why would other people suffer if they got vaccinations? They shouldn't get sick in the first place.



posted on Jan, 29 2015 @ 04:56 PM
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a reply to: JiggyPotamus

This is correct and why I say something needs to be done to keep people who don't vaccinate from endangering those who would but can't because the child is too young.

To me, if we take the libertarian position of "your rights end where mine begin," then there exists a need to recognize that your right not to vaccinate should not give you the right to endanger someone who would be vaccinated given time.

This latest measles kerfuffle shows the unraveling of the vaccination umbrella of herd immunity.


edit on 29-1-2015 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 29 2015 @ 04:59 PM
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Not just the Nazi's .... en.wikipedia.org...

However, it's good to dislike vaccinations when you live in a society where major diseases have been conquered, or are kept at bay by (er) vaccines. I say to people who don't like vaccinations that they should go and do some travelling, perhaps take in some poor counties where preventable diseases are rife. Luckily, chances are you would have been vaccinated, so you can just watch and learn.

In the developed world, the anti-vaccine crowd can hide behind "herd immunity" which probably gives a sense of security.

Best test, is to make sure your kids are not vaccinated then give one tetanus. That'll make you laugh with joy, while you blame everyone but yourself.

Regards



posted on Jan, 29 2015 @ 04:59 PM
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a reply to: JiggyPotamus


Anyone getting a vaccination is, statistically speaking, taking a chance.


MMR:


Severe Problems (Very Rare)
Serious allergic reaction (less than 1 out of a million doses)
Several other severe problems have been reported after a child gets MMR vaccine, including:
Deafness
Long-term seizures, coma, or lowered consciousness
Permanent brain damage
These are so rare that it is hard to tell whether they are caused by the vaccine.


1 in a million is a VERY small chance.

Now for measles:


Severe Complications

Some people may suffer from severe complications, such as pneumonia (infection of the lungs) and encephalitis (swelling of the brain). They may need to be hospitalized and could die.

As many as one out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, the most common cause of death from measles in young children.
About one child out of every 1,000 who get measles will develop encephalitis (swelling of the brain) that can lead to convulsions and can leave the child deaf or mentally retarded.
For every 1,000 children who get measles, one or two will die from it.
Measles may cause pregnant woman to give birth prematurely, or have a low-birth-weight baby.


The benefits of the MMR vaccine FAR outway the risks.



posted on Jan, 29 2015 @ 06:09 PM
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originally posted by: Pardon?

Wrong.
Anti-vaxxers, the majority anyway, subscribe to a belief and irrespective of the science, facts and evidence presented to them refuse to change that belief.
Those who properly research and ask those who comprehend more than they do tend to stop being anti-vax.
Thankfully the vast majority of rational, sane adults are like this.
But as they say, one bad apple...



Even if all that is true, all you can really say is that they are wrong, unless you believe that the parents are refusing vaccines in the hopes that it will bring harm to their children.

I'm not a parent, but I can see where parents have to make thousands of decisions that may help or harm their children.

Should I let my teenage son drive? He may cripple or kill himself or others.

Should I let my daughter hang out with her friends? Parents watching all those crime shows on TV might think it's not a good idea. Parents watching Disney shows might think there is nothing to worry about. Who is right? Both? Neither? Who knows? The point is, we assume the parents make the decision that they believe is in the best interests of their children.

Now, I realize there are just some people that hate the idea that some people might have the freedom to make choices for themselves and their children. The freedom-hater movement in America seems to be spreading faster than any virus. But when I was a kid, I had measles, mumps, and chickenpox, and I survived all three just fine. Knowing what I know now, I would gladly take a week or two of discomfort over a small chance of a lifetime disability.

It seems to me that if the vaccines are so safe and effective, parents that have their children vaccinated shouldn't have to worry about kids that aren't.



posted on Jan, 29 2015 @ 06:24 PM
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a reply to: VictorVonDoom

sigh


Some people in the community rely on herd immunity to protect them. These groups are particularly vulnerable to disease, but often cannot safely receive vaccines:
People without a fully-working immune system, including those without a working spleen
People on chemotherapy treatment whose immune system is weakened
People with HIV
Newborn babies who are too young to be vaccinated
Elderly people
Many of those who are very ill in hospital
For these people, herd immunity is a vital way of protecting them against life-threatening disease.



posted on Jan, 29 2015 @ 06:39 PM
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Yeah and your response here was enlightening and full of intelligence...a reply to: abe froman




posted on Jan, 29 2015 @ 07:06 PM
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I will defend myself and family with my life by any means necessary from any form of abuse, including any unlawful rogue arrests of any kind which I would treat as Jack The Ripper attempting to kidnap a victim. I don't stand under anyone on this planet, only my conscience.

And that is period, underscored to infinity and beyond.

Anyone who allows this for anyone else will not make it to higher realms, they'll spend some time after they pass away in the NAZI realms since they think that way.



posted on Jan, 29 2015 @ 07:15 PM
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originally posted by: abe froman
Anyone not vaccinating their child is an idiot and should be charged with criminal negligence and child abuse.


I'm sure we could write a list of what we could force on people.
Is not breastfeeding child abuse?
Is eating at McD's child abuse?
Is closing children from God child abuse?
Is forcing children to God child abuse?

The only abuse is FORCING unto others what they DON'T WANT. End of story.

I know how you feel, but this reasoning saves your freedom in other aspects too.
edit on 29-1-2015 by theMediator because: s



posted on Jan, 29 2015 @ 07:15 PM
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Double post.
edit on 29-1-2015 by theMediator because: (no reason given)



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