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ABUSE CRISIS: Details of Marine torture of Iraqis revealed

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posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 12:59 PM
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It appears that the pictures we all saw of marines torturing Iraqi prisoners were mild in comparison to some of the acts committed by our troops. The ACLU has documented evidence of Marines using the same torture techniques that Sadam did (electrocution, burning, ect) and has found that about three dozen prisoners died while being held by the US. Psychological torture, such as mock executions, were also readily employed.
 



www.latimes.com
WASHINGTON Marines in Iraq conducted mock executions of juvenile prisoners last year, burned and tortured other detainees with electrical shocks, and warned a Navy corpsman they would kill him if he treated any injured Iraqis, according to military documents made public Tuesday.

In the case that drew the stiffest punishment, a one-year prison sentence for the Marine, a detainee at Mahmoudiya was shocked with an electric transformer. Wires were held against his shoulders, and "the detainee danced as he was shocked," the documents state.

The new records which blacked out the names of soldiers also show that a Marine was convicted of ordering four juvenile Iraqi looters to kneel down beside two shallow holes in Diwaniya. Then, "a pistol was discharged to conduct a mock execution." The Marine was sentenced to 30 days imprisonment with hard labor.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


It seems that the more our presence in Iraq is reviewed, the more parallels are discovered between our policies and that of Sadam. The only difference seems to be in how wide-spread the toruture techniques are utilized - and to be fair - we have no way of knowing how many victims there are.

Is it possible that these reports of abuse are mearly the tip of the iceberg, and that the only reason these specific occurances have been documented was due to the marines taking photographs? could this actually be standard investigation and detainment protocol for US troops when dealing with Iraqis?


[edit on 21-12-2004 by Banshee]




posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 01:18 PM
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Its only a matter of time before our people get brought up on war crimes charges. There have been far too many abuses for it to not happen.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 01:35 PM
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Well if I am honest, those punishments given to the Marines were not good enough. Disgraceful behaviour. We have ousted a man responsible for this kind of treatment of others, only to emulate his methods ourselves. Sickening.

[edit on 15-12-2004 by Kriz_4]



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 01:47 PM
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It should come as no shock since we helped but Saddam in to power in the first place.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 01:53 PM
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granted, we helped put Saddam in power to begin with
(I actually heard that we used to tell our foreign diplomats that Saddam was an ideal role-model)

the thing is though, we went to this war claiming it was to take out weapons of mass destruction...which we did not find. then we claimed that we were removing an evil man from power. have we actually gotten rid of the tactics that Saddam used agianst his people, or have we simply taken over for him? I relieze that in a militarized zone, our troops have to use a certain amount of fear to keep people in line, but the reports comming in about our tactics are just unreasonable.

The media coverage concerning everyone in the chain of command knowing about this abuse has been virutally silenced - are we letting the government cover this situation up and throw all the blame on private soliders? that would be similar to forgiving Saddam for gasing the Kurds and instead, just blaming the troops that were assigned to carry out the orders. - just a thought.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 01:56 PM
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Well the ACLU they are a unbaised group
I see they got tired of attacking the boyscouts nice to see they are taking on someone alittle stronger this time.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 02:23 PM
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Yeah, mate, it is institutional. Also see the thread "Nazi America" in my signature.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 03:08 PM
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Personally, I think a special prosecutor should be appointed to pursue those in the Bush Adminsitration who are responsible for this state of affairs. The damage to the US is incalculable. The Clinton affair is trivial to the point of not worth even lip service in comparison to this. What a monstrous administration we have installed for the next four years!!! Frankly, I think that Bush, his entire cabinet, and everyone associated with them ought to do the honorable thing and resign from office. Instead, it won't be long before you see Dubya handing out pardons like Halloween candy.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 03:09 PM
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This is just what America needs to win the 'War 4 Democracy'...
Way to go marines.. (Some) are freaks..and others are pure geeks...
God bless US and meantime damn the rest of us.....


Some woud dare say this is an unreliable source...thank Alla ;this site did'nt have the name of Islam online....maybe some fools can NoW get the whole picture....

And Yes I Have Iraqi blood in me....and I'm proud.......and Egyptian too for that mattar ..
So call me Baist..if you will../\..

[edit on 15-12-2004 by Horus_Re]



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 03:12 PM
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Lets not forget how the Iraqi's treated our POW's in the first gulf war.

They beat the # out of our guys.

Dont forget the British Torrnado flyer who was shot down and the Iraqi's posted him on video, his face was black and blue and swollen from abuse.

Lets also not forget these prisoners are the ones responsible for the beheadings, roadside bombs and car bombs that the terrorists run into police stations and markets around Iraq.

Terrorists are not covered under the Geneva Convention, So its off to Cuber and GITMO or some 3rd party ship in international water for the really bad guys where there is no law for further interrogation or a neighboring country that has no ACLU.

I am sure if they were honest and truthfull with the Marines they would not have been mistreated.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 03:14 PM
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You can't judge the military as a whole based on the actions of a few.




[edit on 15-12-2004 by Dr. Know]



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by SIRR1
Lets not forget how the Iraqi's treated our POW's in the first gulf war.

They beat the # out of our guys.

Dont forget the British Torrnado flyer who was shot down and the Iraqi's posted him on video, his face was black and blue and swollen from abuse.

Lets also not forget these prisoners are the ones responsible for the beheadings, roadside bombs and car bombs that the terrorists run into police stations and markets around Iraq.

Terrorists are not covered under the Geneva Convention, So its off to Cuber and GITMO or some 3rd party ship in international water for the really bad guys where there is no law for further interrogation or a neighboring country that has no ACLU.

I am sure if they were honest and truthfull with the Marines they would not have been mistreated.
t


Now this is a sensitive area for me as I am also a British citizen,and I have great respect for the Great nation.However cruel that was and don't get me wronge. I deplore such attrocities straight out.!!

But 'What were they doing there in the first place'?...you might say and will,like many others; 'Kuwait'. I say take a look at this theory...and these are 'terrorists' you're talking about and not the rest of Iraq..surely???...

www.emperors-clothes.com...

Bush, the elder, did everything he could to make sure that Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1991. This produced the conditions necessary to launch a punishing attack against Iraq known as the first Gulf War in such a way that the true objective of the war - protecting the Ayatollah Khomeinis fundamentalist revolution in Iran - was not apparent.

1. Helping the Iranian Fundamentalists!?
2. Iraq was an obstacle to the US's pro-Islamist policy
3. The official story: It's all about oil!
4. The US ordered Kuwait to provoke Iraq

......


[edit on 15-12-2004 by Horus_Re]



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 04:43 PM
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Why is the ACLU involved in this?


The ACLU's Mission is to ensure that The Bill of Rights are preserved for each new generation. The ACLU is our nation's guardian of liberty, working daily in courts, legislatures and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties guaranteed to all people in the country by the Constitution and laws of the United States.


Don't they have enough Boy Scouts or Nativity scenes to harass?




posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 04:49 PM
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Hallo...I thought this was an anti' conspiracy'site..yet there's still no reply..OR should I bring the 'Aleins' in the picture..


I'm tempted to quote a peace of the site I added Here above...Ehmm..

Politics makes strange bedfellows, and it also makes bedfellows that just pretend to be estranged.

Let us begin at the beginning. Shia fundamentalism came to power in Iran with the Ayatollah Khomeini. Everybody remembers that Khomeini immediately denounced the US as "Great Satan," and then there was the storming of the US embassy, and so forth. It all made Khomeini look very credible as an 'enemy' of the US. And the US reciprocated with counter-denunciations of the Iranians, calling them "extremists" and "terrorists," etc. Why should we not take such mutually denunciatory statements at face value?

Because (covert) actions speak louder than (public) words.

The story of what Ayatollah Khomeini did immediately after he took over Iran's revolution of 1979 with an Islamist coup d tat, shows why he had to be an American agent from the beginning. You see, once in power, Khomeini immediately began provocations against Iraq that led to the Iran-Iraq war. Khomeini's Shia fundamentalists armed separatist Kurds in northern Iraq and encouraged fundamentalist Shiites in southern Iraq to rebel against Saddam Husseins government. This despite the fact that Hussein had received the new government in Iran with friendly overtures.[......'Is there anybody out there'???......



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 04:52 PM
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1984 May be moved from fiction to reference section



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 04:58 PM
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Unnecessary and unwarrented, but simply the facts of war. Abuses will happen.
I found this (below linked) article of interest:
Pentagon: 130 Troops Punished for Abuse




seekerof



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Unnecessary and unwarrented, but simply the facts of war. Abuses will happen.


Losses will happen. Why give your fighting men armor when they'll die anyways?

Murders will happen. So why employ police?

Once again, another inspiring act of hypocracy by American forces. All the claims of 'justice for Saddam' seem sort vaguely...pointless when American troops run around commiting atrocities of their own. The best part is...they get a slap on the wrist for it. I am filled with renewed vigor. Let us all go about defending liberty by torturing people we think are terrorists!

Oh, and before you go about stating how the Geneva Conventions don't apply, I know that. They don't. But everyone has human rights. It's part of being a human being.

DE



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 08:29 PM
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Of course, there is no excuse for their behavior, but I find it disgusting that they are scapegoating the soldiers. This goes way up. Yes, I'm looking at you Rummy. Dubya, don't look at the ceiling, I'm talking about you too.

What about the private contractors who committed abuse, or directed our soldiers to commit abuse? Does big business get a free pass?



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 09:20 PM
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Is it any coincidence that the previous governor with the record for the most murders by capital punishment is in charge of this fiasco?


It is sickeningly apparent that the U.S. is becoming that which it says it is fighting. By pointing the finger at the past for "atrocities" against the U.S. and justifying these actions in some way, the U.S. is running down the road that the Palestinians and the Israelis have been down for generations.

We must ALL start living/loving in the present. Forgive the past for it is done.
If we do not learn to do this, hope is lost.

Peace to you all.

~Jammer+



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 07:12 AM
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Originally posted by DeusEx
Losses will happen. Why give your fighting men
armor when they'll die anyways?


www.newsmax.com...

You are right. It's completely criminal that Bill Clinton
wiped out our military readiness and that his 8 years
of anti-military spending cutbacks are now bearing rotten
fruits - dead Americans.

8 years of Clinton will take a decade to repair... and in
the mean time our soldiers are suffering for it.

Rumsfield quote - January 2002
"Meet the Press" - Newsmax.com
December 16, 2004

The military had deteriorated so badly during the Clinton administration that it might take a decade to rebuild.

"It takes time to run down a great military," Rumsfeld observed. "And it takes time to build one back up. ...

"During a president's term of office, what he does with the military has very little effect during that period of time," he explained, adding, "Each president inherits what was done in preceding periods."

What had happened during the "preceding period" before he took over?

"The infrastructure had decayed and it is still decayed," the defense chief said bluntly. "And it will take now probably six, eight, 10 years to get it back to the place that it ought to be."





[edit on 12/16/2004 by FlyersFan]



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