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Canadians are discussing mission creep in Iraq theater. What is really going on?

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posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 01:56 PM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: whatisurproblem

FYI, the first SF is acknowledged in the U.S. community as being a joint U.S.-Canadian unit popularized by the movie "Devil's Brigade". I believe filmed in 1969. It used active P.P.C.L.I. forces in the filming as well.

It is generally conceded it was the Canadian members of that force which trained the U.S. members to that level.

The first SF EVER...




I'm not sure who it is that concedes that. The training was conducted by Canadians, Americans, Norwegians and Brits. And an ex cop from Shanghai. The idea was conceived by a Brit, and then they turned it over to the U.S. British Commandos and SAS were both formed before the Devil's Brigade was, as well.

It was a joint effort. Let's leave it there




posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 02:04 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

"If I had Canadian Soldiers, American technology, and British officers, I would rule the world." - Winston Churchill



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 02:08 PM
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"Mission creep" is a frequent issue with any operation and organization, military and civilian. You start out with one goal in mind and gradually, as things come up, stray off that goal. Sometimes it is necessary and helpful and evolving the mission to fit the situation is beneficial and sometimes it gets you so off mission or off task that it negates the task in the first place.

It is definatley something that leadership must be aware of and address.



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 02:08 PM
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a reply to: DeadSeraph

Since were doing Churchill qoutes, I like this one,


Lady Astor: "Winston, if you were my husband I would flavour your coffee with poison" Churchill: "Madam, if I were your husband, I should drink it"



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 02:17 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

Hmm, you may be correct. It was called '1st Special forces' and is credited as such by the Special Forces Association.

Either way, Canada has a rich SF tradition that dates amongst the first.

That better?



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 02:29 PM
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a reply to: NavyDoc

Thank you for that. Harper and the others are now in pre-election mode too, so while he is really playing the tough on crime ticket, we know that his regime has been anything but transparent. I'm guessing all the discussions that are going on about mission creep could reflect our collective fear of being drawn into a war without our knowledge or consent. If the mission changes though, are citizens not entitled to be told?



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 02:42 PM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Shamrock6

Hmm, you may be correct. It was called '1st Special forces' and is credited as such by the Special Forces Association.

Either way, Canada has a rich SF tradition that dates amongst the first.

That better?



Absolutely agree with you! I have love for the JTF2 boys. Truly professional bunch of dudes. I just like historical accuracy too
wasn't taking anything away from them, just don't want anything taken away from anybody else either. They were definitely the first U.S. foray into special operations, just not the first in the world is all.

And while everybody is throwing out military quotes: “If I had one more division like this First Marine Division I could win this war.”
General of the Armies Douglas McArthur in Korea




posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 02:57 PM
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I think the problem is that the people they are training don`t have what it takes to be warriors no matter how much training they are giving them.
The advisers and trainers have to go to the front lines with the people they are training to make sure they don`t get stomped by isis.
When the advisers and trainers are there in the front lines they pretty much have to fight or they`ll get killed.



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:05 PM
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originally posted by: intunewithmyself
I think that by posting this type of information online you are participating in aiding an enemy.
Any force can access and read your messages that canadian forces are being front loaded in an iraq combat zone.
If enemies know this there could be some serious casualties.
OPSEC= Operations Security. Do NOT let the terrorists win.
you're talking about opsec when he has posted a news article that has already released the information.

The only reason these stories make the light of day is because of the world media and the governments of the west think it's clever to announce such things. It's not.



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:05 PM
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a reply to: Tardacus

Well I wouldn't know about the Iraqis being warrior or not, but what can umpteen years of watching your homeland turn into a battlefield not do to them? Even I with my limited abilities and zilch knowledge of warfare would take up arms to defend me and mine with ardour and enthusiasm.



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:08 PM
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Canadians would love to believe what mass media says.
There are cross evidence between what pips like me think and what our conservative government tries you to believe.
But we all have sane brain, don't we?
Things will change soon.


edit on 28-1-2015 by darkorange because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:11 PM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: whatisurproblem

FYI, the first SF is acknowledged in the U.S. community as being a joint U.S.-Canadian unit popularized by the movie "Devil's Brigade". I believe filmed in 1969. It used active P.P.C.L.I. forces in the filming as well.

It is generally conceded it was the Canadian members of that force which trained the U.S. members to that level.

The first SF EVER...


ever?

Google David Stirling mate.



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:14 PM
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originally posted by: SkippyBalls
Oh look some American keyboard warriors are disrespecting their brothers in arms.

Just fyi, the rest of the western world's militairy would rather fight alongside those guys than those Marcus Lutrell gung ho bunch of # ups.
those guys shot over a no fire line at men wearing IR Strobes and ignored check fires over the net. They are #.

I know who the better of the two are and who I'd rather work alongside.



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:15 PM
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originally posted by: aboutface
a reply to: NavyDoc

Thank you for that. Harper and the others are now in pre-election mode too, so while he is really playing the tough on crime ticket, we know that his regime has been anything but transparent. I'm guessing all the discussions that are going on about mission creep could reflect our collective fear of being drawn into a war without our knowledge or consent. If the mission changes though, are citizens not entitled to be told?



Certainly the citizens should be informed of their government's decisions--with the caveat that such release of information does not jeopardize the lives of the soldiers or their mission. For example, the US was told of D-Day after it was done, not before, for reasons I would hope would be obvious.



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:24 PM
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a reply to: sg1642

I stand corrected, sir.



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:28 PM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: sg1642

I stand corrected, sir.

not really bro special forces can be traced back as far as ancient times in one form or another so I'm not exactly correct either



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:29 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc
"Mission creep" is a frequent issue with any operation and organization, military and civilian. You start out with one goal in mind and gradually, as things come up, stray off that goal. Sometimes it is necessary and helpful and evolving the mission to fit the situation is beneficial and sometimes it gets you so off mission or off task that it negates the task in the first place.

It is definatley something that leadership must be aware of and address.



Mission creep is what got the US into # in vietnam.

Lot of Americans lost thefe lifes needlessly cause some monkeys in suites back home did not know when to say stop.

If they had just kept at military advisors and low level support it would likely be all but forgotton.


I see the UK doing it in Iraq.

Months ago a MP in our MOD was sent on TV and promised no mission creep, only recon drones were to be used.
Now we are actively bombing targets in Iraq and our SF are delployed.

I have no issue in bombing ISIS but it pisses me off when our politicians lie about it,
edit on 28-1-2015 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-1-2015 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:33 PM
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a reply to: crazyewok

Good analogy on Vietnam!



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:34 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: aboutface
a reply to: NavyDoc

Thank you for that. Harper and the others are now in pre-election mode too, so while he is really playing the tough on crime ticket, we know that his regime has been anything but transparent. I'm guessing all the discussions that are going on about mission creep could reflect our collective fear of being drawn into a war without our knowledge or consent. If the mission changes though, are citizens not entitled to be told?



Certainly the citizens should be informed of their government's decisions--with the caveat that such release of information does not jeopardize the lives of the soldiers or their mission. For example, the US was told of D-Day after it was done, not before, for reasons I would hope would be obvious.


Well eveyone new a large scale landing was going to happen.
Just not exactly when or were.

Everyone knew Americans, brits and canadians were actively training and gearing for a big landing that year. Just not the fine details.



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:37 PM
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a reply to: crazyewok

You make a good point. I remember when the French military advisors left Vietnam and the US went in. What a nightmare to have watched that napalm and its effects on the population. There's no doubt in my mind that the war machine want things to escalate.




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