Thugged Out And The Asian Influence:

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

The tradition of flyting/rap was exported to the US by Scottish slave owners, where the practice was adopted and developed among the slave population. Various slaves picked it up from the Scottish slave owners, has no orgins in African Americans at all

The Scots may have their own tradition of verbal exchanges,but despite what your professor said he maybe off the mark.
Africans did not came into the "so-called" new world culturally empty handed,there are a bunch of African cultures that have their own verbal exchanges sometime with rhythmic hand clapping.

The Dozens is a game of spoken words between two contestants, common in Black communities of the United States, where participants insult each other until one gives up. It is customary for the Dozens to be played in front of an audience of bystanders, who encourage the participants to reply with more egregious insults to heighten the tension and consequently, to be more interesting to watch. Among African-Americans it is also known as "sounding", "joning", "woofing", "wolfing", "sigging", or "signifying",[1][2] while the insults themselves are known as "snaps".[3][4]

Comments in the game focus on the opposite player's intelligence, appearance, competency, social status, financial situation, and disparaging remarks about the other player's family members—mothers in particular ("yo′ mama...")—are common. Commentary is often related to sexual issues, where the game is then referred to as the "Dirty Dozens

Amuzie Chimezie, writing in the Journal of Black Studies in 1976, connects the Dozens to a Nigerian game called Ikocha Nkocha, literally translated as "making disparaging remarks". This form of the game is played by children and adolescents, and it takes place in the evening, in the presence of parents and siblings. Commentary among the Igbo is more restrained: remarks about family members are rare, and are based more in fanciful imaginings than participants' actual traits. In contrast, the game in Ghana, which is also commonly played in the evenings, insults are frequently directed at family members.[5] Amiri Baraka independently concluded that the dozens originated in Africa and states that they are a surviving adaptation of "African songs of recrimination.
The dozens

In addition there is a long list of words that survived the middle passage that is connected to music,such as Jive..ie trash talking or BS, Juke to misbehave or live a loose life..hence "Juke box." okay, western Africa meaning yes or alright ,phoney; Mandingo fani, foni (to be) false, valueless; to tell a lie.
The list is long a good recommendation of Africanism in the new world and the USA in particular, is Flash Of The Spirit,By Robert Ferris Thompson.

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

The tradition of flyting/rap was exported to the US by Scottish slave owners, where the practice was adopted and developed among the slave population. Various slaves picked it up from the Scottish slave owners, has no orgins in African Americans at all

The Scots may have their own tradition of verbal exchanges,but despite what your professor said he maybe off the mark.

Africans did not came into the "so-called" new world culturally empty handed,there are a bunch of African cultures that have their own verbal exchanges sometime with rhythmic hand clapping.

The Dozens is a game of spoken words between two contestants, common in Black communities of the United States, where participants insult each other until one gives up. It is customary for the Dozens to be played in front of an audience of bystanders, who encourage the participants to reply with more egregious insults to heighten the tension and consequently, to be more interesting to watch. Among African-Americans it is also known as "sounding", "joning", "woofing", "wolfing", "sigging", or "signifying",[1][2] while the insults themselves are known as "snaps".[3][4]



Comments in the game focus on the opposite player's intelligence, appearance, competency, social status, financial situation, and disparaging remarks about the other player's family members—mothers in particular ("yo′ mama...")—are common. Commentary is often related to sexual issues, where the game is then referred to as the "Dirty Dozens

Amuzie Chimezie, writing in the Journal of Black Studies in 1976, connects the Dozens to a Nigerian game called Ikocha Nkocha, literally translated as "making disparaging remarks". This form of the game is played by children and adolescents, and it takes place in the evening, in the presence of parents and siblings. Commentary among the Igbo is more restrained: remarks about family members are rare, and are based more in fanciful imaginings than participants' actual traits. In contrast, the game in Ghana, which is also commonly played in the evenings, insults are frequently directed at family members.[5] Amiri Baraka independently concluded that the dozens originated in Africa and states that they are a surviving adaptation of "African songs of recrimination.

The dozens

In addition there is a long list of words that survived the middle passage that is connected to music,such as Jive..ie trash talking or BS, Juke to misbehave or live a loose life..hence "Juke box." okay, western Africa meaning yes or alright ,phoney; Mandingo fani, foni (to be) false, valueless; to tell a lie.

The list is long a good recommendation of Africanism in the new world and the USA in particular, is Flash Of The Spirit,By Robert Ferris Thompson.

I agree with you on these points, Africans were never culturally empty handed, nor will they ever be. As to rap its been around since the middle ages. My only point has been that rap isnt racial at all, wether European American, Asian American or African American its simply an art form. When we assosiate it with skin color at all we are wrong to do that, because its a learned trait. Culture is learned, no one gets ones culture from ones skin but from our environment and associations.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

I agree with you on these points, Africans were never culturally empty handed, nor will they ever be. As to rap its been around since the middle ages. My only point has been that rap isnt racial at all, wether European American, Asian American or African American its simply an art form. When we assosiate it with skin color at all we are wrong to do that, because its a learned trait. Culture is learned, no one gets ones culture from ones skin but from our environment and associations.

Okay this is why I prefer the term African American over the term Black,African Americans are a culture group,as are Asian Americans Hispanic etc..NOT SIMPLY A COLOR although used interchangeably including myself, again no doubt the Scots and medieval Europeans have their versions,but what we know as Rap is traceable to AAs and Latino communities they have their links to Africa the starting point of both communities.

Interestingly enough there is a link with an African and Arab presence in some European folks music and dance,this may take the thread in a slightly different direction buut!

Folks who live in Europe especially in England will notice a tradition called the Morris dance..in which the dancers blackened up their faces and do stick play fighting,the Morris dance is in reality the " MOORISH DANCE" or dance of the Blacks,this goes back to late or post medieval times perhaps after their expulsion from Europe.note I am not saying that this is the origin of medieval form of rap just an observation that folks were inspiring each other for centuries

From David Mc Ritchie's book Blacks in Britain ancient and Modern
A Black Norman Kinght and his wife.


Moors perhaps Christian convert and Europeans
at play in medieval Germany

Moorish Bagpipe

Scottish Bag pipe
Independent inventions or cross cultural influence going either way..?

a reply to: Spider879

The term thug comes from india and means criminal ....
And asian thugs come on lol .
Rap is garbage dont be surprised that the people that listen to this crap are the most under educated
people on earth .
Oh lets brag about killing each other getting women knocked up selling drugs hurting people ect..
the people that listen to this are doomed and dont stand a chance in the world and im glad it just makes my chances better
.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,now before i get yelled at not all rap songs are bad and not all people that listen to it are hopeless
but numbers dont lie if you had to go to an area where family values and morals and education is key i doubt
you would here any rap crap and i grew up during the hip hop explosion and lets see biggie dead 2 pac dead easy e dead from aids ect ect...now for the latest rap hit .............f@#k that b@#ch and the follwed by kill a mother f#@ker
An then to wonder why there is so much violence in this culture

a reply to: sweets777

If you get yelled at, you kinda deserved it,because gangsta have it's own thing as separate from conscious rap or hiphop but you know that and yet still go on to lump and dump Rap.

a reply to: Spider879

no i live in usa buddy i live in the area where there are gangs real gangs with real guns and real drugs
and they really kill one another every day ...no offense you live in japan i doubt you ever seen a real thug let alone a black one lol. i live next door to some and rap gangsta rap hip hop its kinda all the same thing but there is no more gangsta rap not really they are all dead. Look i dont try to tell you about whale hunting sushi or being ashamed f your self for all your failures.
Dont try to tell an american city guy about hip hop rap and gangstas lol

a reply to: Spider879

its all just a copy of a dumb rap or hip hop or black culture all these people are doing is copying a destructive black culture that has destroyed those people here in america try to go get a good job as a thug lol.
And i got some neighbor boys in there 20s and they are good to me but they talk thug act thug no jobs on welfare 4 babies mommas ect ect they call themselves the c.w.b the cincinnati white boys lol good god read a book

a reply to: Spider879

and it is all a sign of weekness if you have to copy some one elses culture its becuase you dont know or have any pride for
your own .
even your picture is of old aficans holding guns lol

originally posted by: sweets777
a reply to: Spider879

no i live in usa buddy i live in the area where there are gangs real gangs with real guns and real drugs
and they really kill one another every day ...no offense you live in japan i doubt you ever seen a real thug let alone a black one lol. i live next door to some and rap gangsta rap hip hop its kinda all the same thing but there is no more gangsta rap not really they are all dead. Look i dont try to tell you about whale hunting sushi or being ashamed f your self for all your failures.
Dont try to tell an american city guy about hip hop rap and gangstas lol

Sigh!..you lived next door to gangsters you see the damage thug life style can do to a community..but not everyone is into gangsta rap, whenever I listen to Rap it's for the most part conscious Rap it's not kinda all of the same thing.

This ^is in no way gangsta
And it's obvious you didn't bother reading the opening of the post.
I do Live in Japan.
I don't eat Whale.
I love Sushi.
I am an American.
I am from BLKYN.
I do not associate with gangsters.
I do know gangsters.
I own my failures.
I love my victories.
Oh my avatar is a nod to my West African roots possibly Akan through the Maroons of Jamaica
on my mom's side.
Geez! Sweets, prejudged much???

a reply to: Spider879

i call it realistic

originally posted by: sweets777
a reply to: Spider879

i call it realistic

Ok Sweets U do U Bro!