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Watch this before it gets taken down! Ukrainian civil war was carefully planned. years ago.

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posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 12:13 PM
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a reply to: Strawberry88




Ahh, so now OP is to blame because his interest (presumably) only got peaked after THOUSANDS HAVE DIED.



What are you talking about, the information was out there long before this conflict happened. And if it was such a problem before now would it not have been brought up before this, because all this is doing is trying to find a way to blame the US for something that has been known for years.




posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 12:13 PM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: midicon




Wasn't it Nuland, of the '# the EU' fame that disclosed the 5 billion spent?


You do understand that it was public knowledge had you needed to know before that, but it wasn't something you wanted to know about until you heard it from her now did you?


I think it caused quite a stir when she came out with it. I never claimed the information was not available before then.

It may have been the first time I heard of it, but what does that have to do with anything?



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 12:17 PM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Strawberry88




Ahh, so now OP is to blame because his interest (presumably) only got peaked after THOUSANDS HAVE DIED.



What are you talking about, the information was out there long before this conflict happened. And if it was such a problem before now would it not have been brought up before this, because all this is doing is trying to find a way to blame the US for something that has been known for years.



Talking to a wall here, I see. I'm done then.




Please, just answer me one thing:

If I murder someone, and a year later family find a letter I wrote the day before I killed them, in which I pretty much hinted at the entire thing.


Would it then also be stupid of the family to suspect it might have all been planned, simply because they found the letter a year later?





No. This information was there all along, it's simply not been found until now.


If that is really the only argument you have to "prove" this is not enough evidence, then again, I'm done with you.


You will find excuses for everything, just like the people who will find excuses for magic passports surviving blazing heat and impact. Hilarious.
edit on 27-1-2015 by Strawberry88 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 12:23 PM
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Since none of you can seemingly keep from picking at each other...

This thread is closed.

Alrighty, then,

This thread has been moved to the MudPit.

...and reopened.
edit on 1/27/2015 by seagull because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 01:33 PM
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Apparently Russia also has its nose in the business of funneling money to US based activist groups, or so it is alleged. According to the report, offshore money laundering schemes, which have extensive ties too Russian oil interests have been funneling millions of dollars to US anti fracking groups.

The link specifies many shell companies that are being used to launder money into activist groups to help offset the losses due too the shale boom.

Source

With oil prices plunging as a result of a fracking-induced oil glut in the United States, experts say the links between Russian oil interests, secretive foreign political donors, and high-profile American environmentalists suggest Russia may be backing anti-fracking efforts in the United States


There's a lot more to this story besides US involvement instigating and perpetuating conflict. This example is important to note considering all the mud being slung at the US, when in fact Russia is covertly involved in the internal affairs of the US as well.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 02:09 PM
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a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

Who was training all the Russian sympathizer to promote unrest?



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 02:20 PM
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It seems kind of silly to blame the US for the current situation in Ukraine. They gain absolutely nothing from the current conflict. On the other hand prior to the civil war Ukraine was running full speed towards the West. The only one that gains from a destabilized Ukraine is Russia.

I see people bringing up Egypt, Syria, etc. In each of those cases the US supported the dissident faction. Why would the US destabilize a region and then actively oppose the faction they created?

The claim that this is the US' fault doesn't make sense at all. Russia stands to gain from this conflict and they're the ones supporting the separatists. From those facts I'd say Russia looks like a much more likely culprit.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 02:26 PM
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a reply to: Strawberry88




No. This information was there all along, it's simply not been found until now.



So exactly why wasn't this a problem at anytime during those ten years, but all of the sudden it is and as you said it has been there all along?



If that is really the only argument you have to "prove" this is not enough evidence, then again, I'm done with you.


And yet there is no evidence that backs whatever evidence you think there is that shows this money was used for the change of presidents in Ukraine, but please enlighten me with all this so called evidence?



You will find excuses for everything, just like the people who will find excuses for magic passports surviving blazing heat and impact. Hilarious.


So unless I believe the US was behind this then I am no better than those who believe the official story on 9/11 instead of conspiracies that have yet to be shown as close o true...gotcha.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 02:27 PM
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a reply to: JDmOKI




Who was training all the Russian sympathizer to promote unrest?


Well according to a few it has to be the US, as we are responsible for everything that is happening in Ukraine.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 02:30 PM
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originally posted by: Xcalibur254The only one that gains from a destabilized Ukraine is Russia.



Actually not.

The EU was doing everything to get Ukraine to join, however, Russia offered a better deal. It was all over the news here, as I live in Europe.

All of the sudden, when it got obvious that the then president, was not going to join the EU but would stick with Russia, the threats started coming in. Ukraine would join, by will or by protests.


Is it ANY surprise, then, that when the president still refuses to join the EU and sticks with his own mind, "spontaneous protests" break out and everything as we know it from there, happened?

Does this not seem a little bit like the WEST had something to gain here, namely:



Removing a president who decided not to comply after all?



NOW Russia has something to gain, I absolutely agree. Now that it got 100% obvious to them a coup by the West was in play, of course they had to move, since losing Ukraine, THAT HAD DECIDED TO STICK WITH RUSSIA, to an interim president that suddenly is all PRO-EU, is not really something any sane politician or leader would let slip.


Don't be a hypocrite and pretend Obama would let that one go, please.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 02:33 PM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h


If that is really the only argument you have to "prove" this is not enough evidence, then again, I'm done with you.


And yet there is no evidence that backs whatever evidence you think there is that shows this money was used for the change of presidents in Ukraine, but please enlighten me with all this so called evidence?



You have eyes, can you see with them?


The president is gone, the president who had decided to stick with Russia, is now suddenly gone, and replaced by one who wants to join the EU.



What more evidence, do you really need, if I may ask?



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 02:34 PM
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a reply to: Daedal




According to the report, offshore money laundering schemes, which have extensive ties too Russian oil interests have been funneling millions of dollars to US anti fracking groups.


I wouldn't doubt that one bit, as Putin knows full well he can't keep up the Russian economy at the price oil is now, and what better way to do that than pay money to those groups that are against it here in the US.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 02:38 PM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: JDmOKI




Who was training all the Russian sympathizer to promote unrest?


Well according to a few it has to be the US, as we are responsible for everything that is happening in Ukraine.


Please, don't turn this into a pity party for the US?


I have stated here numerous times, and I'm sure plenty of others have, that it's the West.


The EU HAS SOMETHING TO GAIN.



Ukraine decided NOT to join the EU after all, since it got a sweeter deal from Russia.

The EU would not let that slip, even made it obvious (!!!) that Ukraine would join, or protests would break out.




And tadaa, by miracle protests break out, president removed, new one wants to join EU again.


Is this the twilight zone people talk about? Is this a comedy movie we're watching and you're pretending not to be in on it?




Or did you just not follow the news before all of this happened?


I watched the news from day 1 talks about ukraine started, and guess what the first topic was?


Ukraine joining the EU. That was the FIRST news subject in the other EU countries. Till we learned, Ukraine would rather stick with Russia.

AND ALL OF THIS HAPPENS.


I'm not a clown, I'm not a fool, I'm a rational human being and it offends me when it is suggested I'm stupid for understanding that certain political interests were at play AND HAVE GOTTEN OUT OF HAND.


Nobody wins except for THEM if we bicker about who started it. They didn't even bother to hide it.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 02:43 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I think perhaps Russia's propaganda arm is better at creating state sponsored news than the US, and hiding it's involvement in innocuous activities.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 02:45 PM
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originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: the owlbear
I don't speak or understand Count Chockula but if half of the subtitles are correct, damn.


What evidence does he submit to prove his accusations?


He was asking for an investigation, that was the point of the whole speech.
The accuracy of his information has proven itself with time.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 02:47 PM
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a reply to: Strawberry88




The president is gone, the president who had decided to stick with Russia, is now suddenly gone, and replaced by one who wants to join the EU.



Let me refresh your memory a bit...

Yanukovych was all for joining the EU until Putin gave him an ultimatum...

Join EU and lose Russia as a trade partner, or stay with Russia and we will give you cheaper gas.

And maybe you don't know, that president Yanukovych was being impeached by his own parliament including his own party, which he fled Ukraine to get away from the impeachment. Oh and Putin was instrumental in helping him leave.

I also find this interesting that the president at the time was corrupt and stealing from the people, which also was a reason he was being impeached.

Here what the president that you defend in Ukraine did to his people...

yanukovychleaks.org...

And this may also be a reason he fled to Russia...


Former Ukrainian officials have funneled $32 billion to Russia, Ukraine's acting prosecutor general has said ahead of a meeting in London on tracking money allegedly stolen by ousted Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych's entourage.


www.themoscowtimes.com...

But hey it's just easier to blame the US than it is to actually see the truth.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 02:48 PM
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originally posted by: Daedal
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I think perhaps Russia's propaganda arm is better at creating state sponsored news than the US, and hiding it's involvement in innocuous activities.




No better than the US


Tell me again, what are we debating in this thread? US involvement right?


When it comes to Russia, hypotheticals are enough. When it comes to the US, you need hard solid proof, even if the facts of reality offer plenty evidence.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 02:51 PM
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a reply to: OneManArmy




The accuracy of his information has proven itself with time.


What time it was a day before the protests really got going...this wasn't something that just happened as there were smaller protests before they all gathered for the big one, so they knew what was happening. Also the fact that Yanukovych was being impeached for being corrupt what better way to make the world look away from that by starting the trouble from the get go.

So essentially it was wrong, because as it hasn't been proven the US was behind the problems in Ukraine.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 02:51 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Ahh, an ultimatum, similar to the one the EU posed huh?



Oh and wow, your evidence is the fact that he was likely corrupt? Good thing our elected officials are saints then.





But hey it's just easier to blame Russia than it is to actually see the truth.



(BTW? I blame BOTH for the current DEADLY situation, actually. But I can also be realistic enough to see who instigated it all. Russia HAD Ukraine, nothing there to win before it broke down. Stop agreeing with these chess games, they cost INNOCENT LIVES.)



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 02:59 PM
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Just for the GD record I don't support ANYONE but the people who are DYING.

Don't give me that strawman bs of pretending I support a corrupt president, I don't support any of the rats in power except for the ones who actually give a damn about human lives, and they are apparantely spread thin and few, seeing how many have been treating this fiasco as a non-event now that the coup is over.


You couldn't turn the tv on over here without seeing Ukraine, and now that innocent people are dying en masse? THE MEDIA STOPPED CARING.



But I'm sure you're still going to find a way to try and convince me the EU is not somehow involved. I guess that is why our media is ASHAMED TO SHOW what our politicians have caused in a civilized country that they wanted us to see as one of us, when now instead, people taking THE BUS die from goddamn mortar fire.


I don't care who fired the mortars or rockets or whatever, all I care about is that the criminal scum in power of BOTH nations are involved.




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