It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Watch this before it gets taken down! Ukrainian civil war was carefully planned. years ago.

page: 17
46
<< 14  15  16    18 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 11 2015 @ 09:40 AM
link   

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: midicon


McCain admits the cluster bombs were used by the Ukraine Government forces.


Where does he say that?


I watched him say it on TV. However I did a search and there is plenty of confirmation,



“I think that if we had provided them with the weapons they need, they wouldn’t have felt they had to use cluster bombs. So, it’s partially our fault,” McCain said.


It's all good.




posted on Feb, 11 2015 @ 09:46 AM
link   
a reply to: midicon

Can you supply a link to a source that isn't a Russian propaganda site? All those blogs get the quotation from rt.com... Surprised?



posted on Feb, 11 2015 @ 01:47 PM
link   

originally posted by: midicon
a reply to: dragonridr

McCain admits the cluster bombs were used by the Ukraine Government forces. Saying that was only because we haven't given them the right weapons.

I do find it strange that a conspiracy site would attract so many MSM enthusiasts.





He was asked about an accusation Ukraine used cluster munitions in october To attack a Russian tank column. He said it wouldn't need to have been used if the US provided anti tank rockets. He should have known better than say this on a Russian news interview knowing they would take it our of context.

But that aside the OSCE report just came in and those pesky little rebels are dropping cluster bombs trying to dislodge the Ukrainian milatary.

originally posted by: midicon
a reply to: dragonridr

McCain admits the cluster bombs were used by the Ukraine Government forces. Saying that was only because we haven't given them the right weapons.

I do find it strange that a conspiracy site would attract so many MSM enthusiasts.





He was asked about an accusation Ukraine used cluster munitions in october To attack a Russian tank column. He said it wouldn't need to have been used if the US provided anti tank rockets. He should have known better than say this on a Russian news interview knowing they would take it our of context.

But that aside the OSCE report just came in and those pesky little rebels are dropping cluster bombs trying to dislodge the Ukrainian milatary.so the latest report to the UN squarely places blame on sepratists. As the OSCE was working on getting civilians t evacuated.



posted on Feb, 11 2015 @ 03:08 PM
link   

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: Xcathdra

your point? please?


That the elections you refer to in East Ukraine and Crimea were not lawful -

They are not lawful under Ukrainian law.
They are not lawful under international law.
They are not lawful under the UN charter.
They are not lawful under the minsk agreement.

As I said, its apparent you are not familiar so I recommend you brush up before making more claims about the elections held in the east.



posted on Feb, 11 2015 @ 03:23 PM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra

"self proclaimed republic". i don't think they care much about what Ukraine's laws say. you know what else wasn't "lawful"? when the Americans decided to rebel against the British.

if you want to talk laws and regulations and what rich people say that people can and cant do then find someone else to engage. you wanna talk morality, life, and the right to choose then im here for you boo boo.



posted on Feb, 11 2015 @ 03:37 PM
link   
a reply to: AVoiceOfReason


Lol there is no comparison between the 2 events at all.

Russia invaded Ukraine and continues to do so. Its difficult to argue the pro Russian rebels are colonial considering their leadership is composed of Russian nationals / Russian military personnel.

East Ukraine had representation in the Ukrainian government.
East Ukraine was the power base for Yanukovych and his political party.

The pro Russian / Russian rebels agreed to a cease fire. They agreed to elections to be held under Ukrainian law and administered using Ukrainian law. Russia also signed off on this. They used the minsk agreement to buy time so they could rearm and get more military personnel from Russia.

They then violated the agreement by holding their own elections.

Brush up on your history please.



posted on Feb, 11 2015 @ 04:04 PM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra

say law again. nothing gives Kiev the right to attack east Ukraine.



posted on Feb, 11 2015 @ 04:10 PM
link   

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
"self proclaimed republic". i don't think they care much about what Ukraine's laws say. you know what else wasn't "lawful"? when the Americans decided to rebel against the British.


I think the world has moved on since the Americans gained independence from the Brits, don't you.

The problem with the "self proclaimed republic" is that there are ways that don't involve violence and mayhem to gain political autonomy in todays modern world. Could it be that if push came to shove, and in a proper democratic process, those living in the eastern parts of Ukraine would reject such a "self proclamation". Bearing in mind that those doing the proclaiming may not have majority support when the gun is taken out of people's faces.

Regards



posted on Feb, 11 2015 @ 04:29 PM
link   

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: Xcathdra

say law again. nothing gives Kiev the right to attack east Ukraine.


The Russian invasion of Ukraine and Russian support of Russian rebels in the east gives Kiev the right to attack those areas under foreign occupation to protect and secure its territorial sovereignty / integrity.

How you don't see that is concerning and your intentional ignoring of facts is down right scary.
edit on 11-2-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2015 @ 07:52 PM
link   
a reply to: paraphi

yeah the easter republics movement is pretty well documented. though it was not "democratic" per se the majority of the people there have aligned themselves with their republic and Russia. and if they didn't then then im sure they have since keiv has been attacking them. you assume it was at the end of a gun yet a referendum was carried out in the east.



posted on Feb, 11 2015 @ 07:57 PM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra

your saying that i should put borders above human life in my priorities and your calling my stance on the situation "scary"? hahaha riiiiiight dude. sorry bro, i have this weird human condition, its called empathy. nothing will ever make me believe that anyone has the right to take life to fuel agendas and protect "borders". your objectivity is what maps tell you, my objectivity is the very real and valid fact called life.

so lets say keiv gave the east autonomy, who would it hurt?
edit on 11-2-2015 by AVoiceOfReason because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2015 @ 08:04 PM
link   
a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

Your empathy is not empathy at all. Its ignorance about the situation followed by absolute denial of facts that don't support your position.

that is scary... and dangerous.

Lets say the east remains with Ukraine and is given greater autonomy.. Who would that hurt?
Lets say Russia withdraws its occupation forces from Crimea and returns it to Ukraine... Who would that hurt?
edit on 11-2-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 06:51 AM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra

it would hurt russia. black sea. get with the program.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 06:57 AM
link   

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: Xcathdra

it would hurt russia. black sea. get with the program.


So Russia invaded Ukraine for access to the black sea? Even though they already have access to it.

Your logic is fail.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 07:00 AM
link   

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: Xcathdra

it would hurt russia. black sea. get with the program.


So Russia invaded Ukraine for access to the black sea? Even though they already have access to it.

Your logic is fail.


ping! good deflection. you cant just wish away the importance of that region, its obvious why Putin took crimea. and you know damn well russia would not have had access to its property in crimea after the new government came in.

also you never even answered my question.
edit on 12-2-2015 by AVoiceOfReason because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 07:03 AM
link   
a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

So Russia invaded Ukraine for the resources... Considering Putin claims otherwise maybe you can back your claim up with facts and a source.

There was nothing to answer. East Ukraine and Crimea belong to Ukraine and not Russia. Russia must withdraw immediately and end their occupation and support of Russian irregulars fighting in Ukraine.

Its as simple as that.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 07:10 AM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra

who said anything about resources? you know damn well that the concern for Russia is the undermining of its military's projection, and the black sea is a huge part of that.

there is alot to answer. what gives keiv the right to kill citizens of east Ukraine and why cant east Ukraine have autonomy? its simple and its most of all practical.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 07:13 AM
link   
a reply to: AVoiceOfReason


your saying that i should put borders above human life in my priorities


Why not? Putin does.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 07:20 AM
link   
a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

Because Ukraine has a constitution for starters that spells out how elections and province status are made.

The individuals fighting Ukraine in the east are primarily Russian from Russia. The rebels have violated every ceasefire and agreement made. If they are going to continue their invasion of Ukraine then Ukraine has every right to protect itself and eject the invaders.


You and Putin are in your very own Euripides play....



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 07:30 AM
link   

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
yeah the easter republics movement is pretty well documented. though it was not "democratic" per se the majority of the people there have aligned themselves with their republic and Russia. and if they didn't then then im sure they have since keiv has been attacking them. you assume it was at the end of a gun yet a referendum was carried out in the east.


Where is the evidence for the your assertion that the population of eastern Ukraine has aligned themselves to their "republic". You even reference that it was not democratic!

Those Ukrainians that have remained in eastern Ukraine are probably wishing the "republic" had never been thought up, given that many have died and been at the bad end of brutality and abuse.

www.hrw.org...

Regards




top topics



 
46
<< 14  15  16    18 >>

log in

join