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How to Bog Down Russia in Crimea and Ukraine - All Ideas Welcome!

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posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 04:32 PM
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Ultimately Russia thinks it is simply creating yet another frozen conflict in Ukraine. They do this to maintain leverage on countries and ensure Ukraine never enters the EU or NATO as they require clean political situations before entry. It's also the way Russia warns other satellite countries that think they are independent, like Belarus.

The truth is that the EU and US aren't likely to lift all sanctions until Crimea is returned, something Putin can't do and remain president. Economic leverage only works in the long term, but it does in fact work. Time is on the side of the US however. As Ukraine purges Russian moles and influence in it's power structures it gets stronger and stronger. The US is only happy to sell them weapons on credit when the time is right. Hell the US fully equipped Georgia into a modern fighting force that did quite well given it's size.

I would suggest the US begin arming Ukraine and being very public about it. As well as that to forward deploy a significant amount of heavy weapons in Poland. Germany isn't the right location anymore. The real battle is economically however and the EU and US need to cut off almost all economic links to Russia. If Putin thinks he can replace the West with China and India then let him try. A full embargo would drive Putin out of power in less than 2 years...and is probably the only thing that even has a chance to remove him.




posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 04:39 PM
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a reply to: Mehmet666Heineken

Well on the sanction side the UK could really hurt russia.......


Massive parts of london property is owned by Russians billionaires.

UK should seize it.

That will hurt Putins biggest supporters rather than ordinary Russians and help the UK houseing crisis at the same time



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 04:44 PM
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originally posted by: Mehmet666Heineken

originally posted by: HUMBLEONE
What do I think? I think I've had enough war. I think I've had enough death, violence and misery. I renounce this system, this matrix of evil bull# that you, unfortunately are still so enamored with.


So let the Ukrainians die, let civilian airliners get shot down, and let the Russians censor Crimean television stations because they are looking for proof of who was involved in an anti-Russian protest a year ago. Let's just bury our heads in the sand like ostriches and not rise to the occasion like men.

The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing


I practice the fine art of not giving a f$ck. I practice of detachment. That means that I am not about to designate energy from my consciousness to ultimately feed some evil, ultra-terrestrial black magician. Not bloody likely.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 05:07 PM
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You might be able to postpone or stop a conventional war but not a nuclear war.

The decision making process to start a nuclear war is in the hands of just a few people.

I have always found that crazy that just a handful of humans can be given so much power to destroy so quickly.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 08:24 PM
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a reply to: noeltrotsky




One major weapon they need is the Javelin anti-tank weapon.


In return Russians are only more happy to provide Rpg-29, the M1-A1 "killer" to Taliban in Afghanistan and ISIS in Iraq.

Why do you western suckers not think a step or two forward?



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 08:44 PM
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a reply to: crazyewok




Massive parts of london property is owned by Russians billionaires. UK should seize it.


BP has big joint venture in Russia worth billions. Wonder if Russians would confiscate that investment alone and come out ahead in the game when summing up all the high priced shacks that Russian crooks own in UK.

Putin is playing nice for now. He shifts gear even by 1 notch and earth will drastically shift beneath the western interests of all kinds.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 08:58 PM
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a reply to: Mehmet666Heineken

Mehmet, we have spoken regarding another topic here on ATS, and I view you as an esteemed member and contributor.

May I ask what makes you believe that Russian aggression has caused this situation? The US government staged a coup in UA, and removed their democratically elected government. In response, people from two areas in UA voted to secede from the illegal government and form their own autonomous republics.

Let me ask you this: how would you respond to your country being taken over by a non-elected government?

Russia had to decide between annexing Crimea or having US nukes/bmd sitting at their borders - in contrast, when the USSR positioned nukes in Cuba, the US almost started WW3, despite having their own nukes in Turkey.

Russia then chose to accept the secession of Lugansk and Donetsk people's republics on an effort to protect the majority ethnic Russian population as well as uphold the rule of law. The alternative would be to force those people to submit to an illegal government they don't support, leaving them sitting ducks for NATO.

Its a tough situation, but the US actually caused it.



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 04:50 AM
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a reply to: Mehmet666Heineken

They already are bogged down.

With the state of the Russian economy it will only increase.



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 05:47 AM
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Problem is, Ukrainians want to be part of the Russia world, considering the problems Europes facing.

But a few select world leaders do not want to lose Ukraine, so they'll make sure the government and military leaders stay strong while the people around them are taken for the ride.



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 06:01 AM
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originally posted by: Agit8dChop
Problem is, Ukrainians want to be part of the Russia world, considering the problems Europes facing.


I could agree with this statement had the votes been done in accordance with Ukrainian and international law. Since they were not, and since there is evidence showing pro Ukrainian individuals were threatened / kept from the vote I don't see how you can make the statement that Ukrainians want to be a part of Russia.

Secondly there was nothing stopping those who wanted to be a part of Russia to actually move to Russia.



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 06:16 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 06:31 AM
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Also to any of you that missed out on stupid American history, Crimea is Russian rightful land which was obtained in the time of Cathrine The Great. Most of the Crimea population is Russian and it is not surprising that Crimea joined back to be part of Russia. Knowing the EU and America after supporting the Nazi Ukrainian Party in 2014, Crimea would have been shelled and bombed like the Schools of Lugansk and Donetsk.

Basically put it was a good choice by the people and a strategic step by Putin as well to keep the greedy plague of a locust that the US and NATO from the Russian Border.

America will fail and keep failing for they do not know how to approach Russia or even defeat it. The Russians are strong people and when it comes to defending their mother land they unite as one nation and one people. It was the same in time of Napoleon and it was the same in time of Hitler, now it will be the same in time of America. History will repeat itself yet again and a great empire will fall once more before the Bear.

I alone know how to take down Russia and how to get NATO so close to it's borders that Russia wouldn't be able to open it's mouth without a NATO say so.

But the thing is... Why would I? To me America and EU are a cancer upon this world and I want that cancer removed. So I'm just going to enjoy the show and place my bet on China and Russia. Enjoy your USD and EUR while you can it's about to get very interesting.



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 08:26 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Agit8dChop
Problem is, Ukrainians want to be part of the Russia world, considering the problems Europes facing.


I could agree with this statement had the votes been done in accordance with Ukrainian and international law. Since they were not, and since there is evidence showing pro Ukrainian individuals were threatened / kept from the vote I don't see how you can make the statement that Ukrainians want to be a part of Russia.

Secondly there was nothing stopping those who wanted to be a part of Russia to actually move to Russia.


In accordance with Ukrainian law? Their government was illegally removed, that basically threw the rule of law out the w



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 08:32 PM
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Has anyone suggested supporting Chechnya yet? Open up another front with Russia?

No?

*climbs back into her hole*



posted on Jan, 29 2015 @ 12:49 AM
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originally posted by: auroraaus
Has anyone suggested supporting Chechnya yet? Open up another front with Russia?

No?

*climbs back into her hole*


Chechnya would never sign or join with US or NATO, they respect Putin too much and would follow him to hell and back.



posted on Jan, 29 2015 @ 04:44 AM
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a reply to: Mehmet666Heineken

How to Bog Down Russia in Crimea and Ukraine. Why are you so sure the Russians are the guilty party?

If you are genuinely searching fr the truth perhaps you might like to consider this:

Paul Wolfowitz, the neoconservative who was Deputy Secretary of Defense under the Bush regime, declared:

“Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere, that poses a threat on the order of that posed formerly by the Soviet Union. This is a dominant consideration underlying the new regional defense strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated control, be sufficient to generate global power.”

Is Wolfowitz, when referring to “hostile power” referring to any power independent of Washington’s control?

Ref: paul craig roberts



posted on Jan, 29 2015 @ 10:57 AM
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originally posted by: auroraaus
Has anyone suggested supporting Chechnya yet? Open up another front with Russia?
No?
*climbs back into her hole*


Hell of a good suggestion! Of course it would have to be done through a Middle East intermediary...but the US has no problem doing that. I wonder if they aren't already covertly helping Chechnya in hidden ways.



posted on Jan, 29 2015 @ 11:00 AM
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a reply to: JBurns

No it was not.

By all means though explain why you think it was illegally removed. You guys keep making this claim yet cannot support it.



posted on Jan, 29 2015 @ 01:05 PM
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Hit and run or Gorilla warfare has historically worked well. It was conducted in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iran with great success. It's very difficult for a conventional type army to gain ground when they have difficulty finding the enemy. Especially when the enemy can blend into their surroundings.



posted on Jan, 29 2015 @ 01:14 PM
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originally posted by: bucsarg
Hit and run or Gorilla warfare has historically worked well. It was conducted in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iran with great success. It's very difficult for a conventional type army to gain ground when they have difficulty finding the enemy. Especially when the enemy can blend into their surroundings.


unless you destroy everything in sight.




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