What happens before and after you die?

a reply to: Tangerine

The medical doctor stated that he DETECTED no evidence of respiration or cardiac impulse. In other words, the person seemed dead.

Um No. No cardiac function and no respiration means that they ARE dead.

His inability to detect respiration or cardiac impulse does not mean it wasn't present. That is the very reason why there is a distinction between clinical death and actual death.

Wrong again. I'm pretty sure that if an EEG cant pick it up and a mirror to the nose or a stethoscope to the chest hears nothing then there is nothing there. In many cases rigor mortis and palor mortis had set in many of these people. Maybe you should clear it up by asking your physician how they pronounce people dead.

However, you may, at your option, believe the fairytale version of these stories rather than accept the fact that doctors make mistakes.

Well thank you for your permission for me to believe what I like. I grant you permission to do the same.

And you're preaching to the choir about doctors making mistakes. I was told 3 and a half years ago that I had a few months to live at most...and here I am still. Doctors say I am a miracle (a word that doctors almost never use) and the fact that I am on no clinical preventative cancer drugs confounds them. I am proof that things happen that doctors don't understand all the time. Call it what you will but to me, that is God and nothing but God.

So keep sticking your fingers in your ears and ignoring what the people who have actually died say about it, in the end we all die and until then arguing about with people like you that absolutely refuse to believe becasue they would rather cling to the notion that there is no God, no creator and all of this just happened one day and made itself.

originally posted by: Cancerwarrior
a reply to: Tangerine

The medical doctor stated that he DETECTED no evidence of respiration or cardiac impulse. In other words, the person seemed dead.

Um No. No cardiac function and no respiration means that they ARE dead.

His inability to detect respiration or cardiac impulse does not mean it wasn't present. That is the very reason why there is a distinction between clinical death and actual death.

Wrong again. I'm pretty sure that if an EEG cant pick it up and a mirror to the nose or a stethoscope to the chest hears nothing then there is nothing there. In many cases rigor mortis and palor mortis had set in many of these people. Maybe you should clear it up by asking your physician how they pronounce people dead.

However, you may, at your option, believe the fairytale version of these stories rather than accept the fact that doctors make mistakes.

Well thank you for your permission for me to believe what I like. I grant you permission to do the same.

And you're preaching to the choir about doctors making mistakes. I was told 3 and a half years ago that I had a few months to live at most...and here I am still. Doctors say I am a miracle (a word that doctors almost never use) and the fact that I am on no clinical preventative cancer drugs confounds them. I am proof that things happen that doctors don't understand all the time. Call it what you will but to me, that is God and nothing but God.

So keep sticking your fingers in your ears and ignoring what the people who have actually died say about it, in the end we all die and until then arguing about with people like you that absolutely refuse to believe becasue they would rather cling to the notion that there is no God, no creator and all of this just happened one day and made itself.

Continue to believe the fairytale and, at all costs, avoid asking your physician or even going so far as to look up the difference between clinically dead and dead. Now you're bringing religion into it. That explains it. You can't distinguish between belief and fact.

a reply to: Tangerine

Now you're bringing religion into it. That explains it. You can't distinguish between belief and fact.

Ah, so now you reveal the depths of your suspicions.

And I said absolutely nothing about religion. Why is it that you think somebody can't be religious yet have a belief in God?

You can't distinguish between belief and fact.

And you can't seem to accept that there have been many, many people throughout history that have died, seen god and come back.

But hey, cling stubbornly to whatever notions you like of there being no creator. Evidence for God is all around you if you would just open your eyes and your heart.

We all die in the end. Don't let your ego fool you into thinking you somehow won't like 99 percent of people seem to go through their lives thinking.

at all costs, avoid asking your physician or even going so far as to look up the difference between clinically dead and dead.

Why would I ask a physician since apparently (according to you anyways) they don't even know when people are alive or dead?

I'll pray for you just the same.

It's pretty simple my friend. Before one dies one may experience long suffering (depending upon what is taking ones life i.e. a debilitating disease like cancer, brain tumor etc.) or one may die swiftly in a automobile accident.

But for sure the WORD states in Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men (gender inclusive) once to die, but after this the judgement.

It's either going to be the judgement seat of JESUS the Christ, or it's going to be the White Throne judgement of GOD.

I would prefer the one before JESUS personally.

I believe in 4 and 5 and 3 technically belongs to the realms what might be called hell. Everyone in heaven and hell are in a way unaware just like in dreams and most people don't even get to heaven or hell but fall in an eternal slumber because they are unprepared having lead a life without thinking about the subject or exploring the possibility at all.

I imagine it's like reading many volumes of books at once in highspeed. Ever fell asleep during a lecture or some class that was too uninteresting? I imagine it's like that for the majority. Getting vital information at an age where the person doesn't realize he needs this info to become succesful in society and either becomes drowsily, has a hard time focusing attention and nearly falling asleep. But the info to which one is exposed during the transition is vital for learning and understanding how to move around, create things and having a good time.

Those who fall asleep during the process of transitioning never wake up (except for that one biblical day where everyone is woken up by a messiah figure). They don't wake up because of the nature of the afterlife which is for a part like I mentioned the same stuff of dreams and consists entirely of memories. Those which can be called higher beings or angels have memories of realms which somehow keep those places in existence.

Ideally I believe everyone should learn about dreams and it's connection to the afterlife, where it is vital to prepare so one can become happy in the next life. Those pharaos of ancient civilizations were on to something with their entire culture revolving around the afterlife and the pharaos getting the best of it. If only western societies would do something similar but the Church's answer appears to be letting everyone fall asleep. Which isn't a bad choice since most people appear to only want to know about life, not what comes after that and then there are a lot who don't believe anything will follow which is also true in a way at least for them.

a reply to: Bloodydagger

Bob Olson always has great guests on his show that discusses the afterlife. A list can be found on his website. Here is his most recent:

What if, when one dies, they awake to an 8x8 cell... and stay there forever and ever?

That would beat "winking out" for bad scenarios, in my book.

But it looks like some portion of whatever we are continues in some manner... but any dogma and particulars are moot and hold no more or less logic than the basic "we go on" or "we stop."

Though I'd argue the "we go on" side has more weight as far as evidence, if not logic, to it.

Weird situation we're in, this "life"... either way.

I would argue there's no point to ever exist at all if you don't go somewhere after this stop in existence...Your soul.essence, conciousness, likely came from somehwere before arriving in your body, i think it goes somehwere afterwards...to live then just die and no longer exist is the most illogical stance you can take....People sometimes use the " you don't remember being born right, thats what happens when you die! "

I also don't remeber getting blacked out drunk every time it happened but I still existed while in that state, moved around, talked to people, etc,etc...Really weak argument actually...Not being recalling where you were before being on earth doesn't mean you never existed before being on earth.... a reply to: Denoli

a reply to: Bloodydagger

I'll submit another interesting theory: What if when you pass on, you actually go to the reality you create? For example, what if because you believe in Heaven, you actually do go to a place that meets your description of Heaven?

Personally, what I will wager (and obviously, won't be able to post to confirm it), is that there is "something" after this. Why, do you ask? There's a couple things that I have experienced that seem to indicate this:

1. Ghosts - I have encountered ghosts that are aware of the space around them. There are also plentiful recorded hauntings where the ghost is a former tenant or owner. Surely not all of these tales are made up?

2. Astral Projection - While I still cannot quite say what astral projection actually is, to me, it tends to lend credit to somewhat of an afterlife. Why? It's a bit interesting, because when I have been consciously out on the astral, I noticed that I become a lot more scatterbrained (I want to do this, then halfway there I want to do something else). I also noticed that I cannot "feel" anything (best description is a float tank). I don't think I have ever taken a breath either.

And, if you want to consider "hooey evidence", I have died in two very lucid dreams. In the first, I was out west for some reason, and we watched a comet or meteor crash into the earth; I remember the initial shock and some fire, which roasted me. Last thing before the death was taking in a ragged breath (fire scorched throat, and I actually felt the pain), and falling forward. Afterwhich, it reminded me of projecting - I found myself aware in what looked like a temple, with others that died when the impact happened. This one had so much of an impact that I'm curious to see if it'll actually happen around my physical age in the dream (only 4-5 years to go, ha).

The second "death" dream is more akin to someone coming for you. I was in church (my dream self was old, like 90's). Well, the dream self fell asleep in the chair, and apparently died, because there was a lady telling "me", it was time to go. No pain, nothing - I remember her smile, and saying "now that wasn't so bad, was it?".

For me though, I think before I call a final eternal resting place, I want to haunt some skeptics.

-fossilera

a reply to: Cancerwarrior

There are some that would never accept there is something else after the body dies.
Even if science was able to suspend the life of the body, dissect it piece by piece and then put it back together, and the person awaken, the same people would be saying the person never died.

There was a study done in 1907's where terminal patients were laid on gurnees and weighed before and after death the weight difference was from 1/2 ounce to 1 and 1/4 ounce loss upon death.
www.snopes.com...
a reply to: Bloodydagger

originally posted by: guitarplayer
There was a study done in the early 1900's where terminal patients were laid on gurnees and weighed before and after death the weight difference was from 1/2 ounce to 1 and 1/4 ounce loss upon death.
www.snopes.com...
a reply to: Bloodydagger

In the early 1900s. LOL. Probably intestinal gas expelled after death.

originally posted by: jacobe001
a reply to: Cancerwarrior

There are some that would never accept there is something else after the body dies.
Even if science was able to suspend the life of the body, dissect it piece by piece and then put it back together, and the person awaken, the same people would be saying the person never died.

Why don't you try that? In fact, can you name a single account of a person who had been dissected who returned to life?

Did you read the whole artical?
a reply to: Tangerine

oooooUUUUUUU it the spelling police. I take it you did not follow the link and read the article.
a reply to: Tangerine

I think this very question is what spurned religion throughout the ages. Mortality fears and ancestral worship.

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Discuss the topic. Not each other.

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Do not reply to this post.

After you die you go to heaven duh everyone knows that.

quote , cancerwarrior: So keep sticking your fingers in your ears and ignoring what the people who have actually died say about it, in the end we all die and until then arguing about with people like you that absolutely refuse to believe becasue they would rather cling to the notion that there is no God, no creator and all of this just happened one day and made itself.



I like your words and believe them , even though I have not had a NDE. I have had a few times where I have drifted up and away from my body as it stayed where I left it under the basket after taking a lay up. Time or two more fast slight shifts and that is enough to get me to believe there is more than just this conglomeration , this union of billions of cells , this material veil that most can not see above or through. I know I want to see passed it and truly one day I may fully grow up and rise passed this material world. Until then I look at N.D.E.R.F. and see the thousands and thousands of NDE's shared by those who have experienced them. They come from all over the world and from the full spectrum of religious views.

Go to N.D.E.R.F. org and read for your self. Might be some insight for some. Much there to learn in my opinion.

Nice post cancerwarrior and peace and strength be with you ever still.