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Smoking Bans - Where will it end?

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posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 03:53 PM
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a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Even better - lets tell the story of Grandpa. He is getting on in years and since grandma died, he no longer seems capable of providing for himself.

Now Grandpa worked hard all is his life and has been smoking for over 60 years. His family puts him in a home for his own safety. But Grandpa wants a cigarette and no one will provide him with a safe place to smoke. Matter of fact, grandpa has to walk clear off the property to sidewalk, if he wants a smoke. Its 25 degree below zero but by god, Grandpa had paid all the dues required in his life and smoking was his only pleasure and comfort. He has a bit of trouble walking (walks with a walker) and sidewalk is quite slippery with ice. Under the Ontario Smoke-Free Law, if any staff dare to try to assist him to get to the sidewalk he would be charged. But Grandpa is determined. He dresses warm and sets out across the sidewalk. The wind is freezing and hits his face like tiny shard of ice but he puts his head down and keeps going. Finally he reaches the sidewalk. There is no place to sit. No place to shelter from the damn wind. He tries to smoke a cigarette but the wind is so cold on his fingers that finally he had to drop it and put his hand in his pocket.

Tears on his face as he realizes that truly someone else is in control of his body and the last pleasure of his life is being stripped away from him. The nursing home isn't far - only about 400 meters but somehow, he just doesn't want to go back....

Yup - no lack of civility in this story!

Shall I tell you about the mental patients who are strip searched every time they go back in. You see, cigarettes are contraband in a mental hospital. Even if you are allowed out of the doors to take a walk, and you go buy a pack of cigarettes, you can't take them back into the doors and have them locked up in a locker with your other things. No and not lighters or matches either.

Now if your a female patient, you can sometimes get around the rules, if you are willing to "speak" privately to that creepy orderly.

You see, someone decided that if you seek treatment because you are depressed, than you must be forced to accept another medical treatment - smoking cessation.

In both case, someone is only doing what they decided was "good for you" and in your own best interest.s




posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 03:57 PM
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a reply to: framedragged

Why yes - yes I do- every time, every single time, someone is campaigned for a expansion of the smoking ban and to close loop hole, there is always this "asthma-diva" who is happy to explain to one and all how without a smoking ban, their lives are a living hell.

Please google it for yourself! I can't be bothered to do it for you.

There is also one absolutely pathetic smoker who claims that they are "thrilled" at the expanded smoking ban or increase in tobacco tax because, now, maybe, the government will finally punish him sufficiently to get him to quite smoking.

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 04:00 PM
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originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
December 2008, Lorraine, 68, - a patient at Alberta Hospital, Edmonton, Canada, went out in sub-zero temperatures to have a cigarette. She was found one week later, frozen to death[5], 400 meters[6] from the building.


She's 68 years old, in the hospital and goes outside in sub-zero temperatures because she has to have a cigarette. And apparently isn't capable of making it back in.

If you're not responsible for those with asthma, who should be responsible for someone so addicted they would make such a foolish choice?

And you complain about the nanny state.



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 04:13 PM
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originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks
Tears on his face as he realizes that truly someone else is in control of his body and the last pleasure of his life is being stripped away from him...


Let's see.... what was that you were saying about drama queens?

Let me clue you in, sister. Not being able to smoke is far from the only indignity you'll suffer if and when you'll wind up in a place like that and it very likely won't be on the top of the list. Grandpa's going to have to stumble even further if the last pleasure of his life is a gin and tonic cause they ain't gonna give him that either. He won't get to choose what he eats. He won't get to choose who is around him. He won't get to choose who wipes his a** when it comes down to that. And if he's been smoking for 60 years there's a good chance he's going to be in pretty miserable shape.



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 04:15 PM
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a reply to: DelMarvel

And that goes to show the level of "civility" that anti-smokers have.

Are you even human? Do you have any idea of what it means to lose you spouse, your indepenence, your last pleasure in life and to be treated worse than a dog (who is required by law to have a shelter adequate to protect from the elements).

You would treat your grandma worse than a dog just so that you can have the pleasure of forcing a smoker to quit!

WOW - just WOW!

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 04:28 PM
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a reply to: DelMarvel

Early in this thread - I posted 3 names of 3 real people who froze to death. They broke no laws. Their only mistake was complying with merciless masters.

You ought to know by now that I don't say anything I can't back up. When the Smoke-Free Ontario Act was enacted in 2006, smokers in nursing homes and veterans hospitals were allowed to smoke inside special separately ventilated smoking rooms - but - and this was a a big but...the existing rooms just would not do. The new rooms had to have two sets of doors.

Smokers and other donated $80,000 to re-build a smoking room at the hospital.

www.smokersclubinc.com...

A room for 6 but with only 2 chairs and only open until 5:00 and smokers had to wear "fire-proof" aprons.

A separately ventilated smoking room with 2 sets of doors where non-smokers never had to enter and the control freaks still preferred to see old veterans out at night in freezing cold and rain.

Now explain to me again - why should I have any sympathy and respect for asthmatics when they have none for smokers?

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 04:43 PM
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a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

You seem really on to what's been happening to smokers. Do you know any names of the people who are responsible for starting this sorry state of affairs?.



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 05:09 PM
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a reply to: anonentity

Absolutely!

Stanton Glantz - he's a mechanical engineer but because he was able to get grants from Big Pharma, the University of California gave him an honorary degree in cardiology. He presents himself as Dr. Glantz.

John Banzhaff - he is a lawyer and law professor. He sued the government for money to advertize anti-smoking because the Big Tobacco was advertizing and the other side should get equal time

James Repace - he worked at the EPA. While there he wore a gas mask to work claiming he was suffering from "sick building" syndrome. He was the one who stated that increasing ventilation would be an inadequate alternative to smoking bans because it would take "gale force winds" to keep the public safe from second hand smoke. He is also the one who demanded complete non-smoking cruise ships on the high seas. He stood at the foot of the smoke exhaust and claimed that he could detect smokers particulate on the deck.

Johnson Foundation.

There are fair number of "activist scientists" who are willing to sell their souls for a buck.

Jill Pell - distinguished scientist who won the Times award for junk science of the year for her work showing that both heart attacks and asthma attacks were decreased the year after the smoking ban was implemented in the UK

There are hundreds of others.

In every country there are really only about a couple of dozen people who are paid to run anti-smoking programs and who are at the heart of it. They depend alot on unpaid volunteers who offer to write letters to the editor, phone call-in radio programs, write comments favorable to smoking bans and haunt internet sites, trolling sites where pro-choice might be discussed. They have quite the wide reputation of claiming to be asthmatics. They are trolls but if you ignore them, you get quite a lot of information out as I have done on this thread

But of course, the source of all this is the World health organization.



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 05:14 PM
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a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Sir Richard Doll was the first researcher who used statistics to find the first association between smoking and lung cancer. He aslo developed a pretty grubby reputations of being in the pay of big industry who wanted to clear their particular chemicals of association with any harm. He cleared Acrolein for big industry.

He was working for the British government at the time. It was the time of the deadly London Smog that killed so many people. At the time, the british government had a policy of exporting clean coal to other countries at a better price than they could get for "dirty" coal Dirty meaning it was contaminated with heavy levels of sulphure. When the Londong Smog happened and so many people died, it created quite a political problm. The governement was desparately searching for a scapecoat so that they could claim that dirty coal wasn't the cause of the deaths.

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 05:31 PM
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originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: DelMarvel

And that goes to show the level of "civility" that anti-smokers have.


Oh, come on! "Civility" went out the window on this thread days ago and it didn't start with the anti-smokers.


originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
Do you have any idea of what it means to lose you spouse, your indepenence, your last pleasure in life ..


As a matter of fact I have a very good idea about that; I see it on a daily basis.

You haven't been around many life long smokers when they get to that stage of life or you would have a different opinion. Or else you're in massive denial.

Would you keep giving alcohol to an alcoholic in a nursing home?



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 05:39 PM
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a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

The World Health Organization (WHO) is the head of public health globally. In the 1960s, they were in trouble. You see, they were successful. Infectious diseases were decreasing in every developed country around the world. Their funding depended on the very countries that needed them the least. Its hard to make money eradicating polio and maleria in the third world.

They hit on the idea of getting int the business of private health. Tobacco prohibition! Aided by Big Pharma - they got into the business of private health and it was so finanancialy successful (think of the amount of money governments get from tobacco taxes) that governments soon jumped on the bandwagon. It was perfect. Smoking was so popular that governments could scape-goat a million diseases on tobacco (asbestos, industrial chemicals, air pollution)

As a matter of fact, tobacco control is so important to them that they are now campaigning for a global tobacco tax to be dedicated to the WHO

www.ibtimes.co.uk...




WHO delegates met in Moscow this week and voted to move forward on the implementation of a key part of the 2003 Framework Convention on Tobacco Control. The international tobacco tax provision will mandate all the countries who signed on the UN anti-tobacco agreement –which includes all the major countries except the United States, Switzerland and Indonesia, to implement a tax equivalent to at least 70 per cent of the retail price of the tobacco products.


Where was the WHO during the ebola crises? Remember infectious disease control is supposedly their reason for existance -

www.dailymail.co.uk... e-hosted-Putin-number-infections-passed-10-000.html

www.cnsnews.com...

So anyone who thinks tobacco will be eradicataed in dreaming in technicolor - the WHO needs funding. Its ok to demonize smokers but don't dare interfere with tobacco taxes.

That is why Alcohol is also on the list to be demonized.

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 05:42 PM
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a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

BTW - every sad story I posted on this site is from interviews with actual people! It was a friend of mine who recruited Earl from the Ottawa Sun to report on the funding efforts for the veterans hospital and to publish stories about the construction of the smoking room so that we could be sure it was actually built.

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 06:54 PM
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So wait wait wait.

The crux of this thread, is that you believe anecdotes over statistics.

Righty-o, carry on!



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 06:57 PM
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originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
Now explain to me again - why should I have any sympathy and respect for asthmatics when they have none for smokers?

Are all the asthmatics responsible for tobacco being banned in some places? I know I'm not!

So why do you treat all asthmatics as if they were responsible?

Also, it looks like you cannot understand the difference between something you choose (smoking) and something for which you are not responsible and from which you cannot get away (having an incurable disease).

Smokers choose to smoke, if they decide to go out in freezing weather to smoke, it's their choice, nobody is forcing them. They decide to go and die because of that? I suppose that means they chose the worst option, but they chose it, nobody forced them to do it.

Did I choose to go to the hospital all those times I did go? Yes (except the first), it was my choice, as I thought that it was better to go to the hospital than to risk my life not going. As I'm still alive, I suppose I made a good choice, but if I had chosen not to go to the hospital and had died because of that, it had been my choice.

People should be responsible for their choices, not find someone else to blame for them, only cowards do that.



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 06:59 PM
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originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
BTW - every sad story I posted on this site is from interviews with actual people!

All the things I told about me are true, but as they do not follow your preconceived notions you said you thought they were lies.



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 07:00 PM
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originally posted by: framedragged
So wait wait wait.

The crux of this thread, is that you believe anecdotes over statistics.

Righty-o, carry on!


Only when convenient.



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 07:07 PM
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a reply to: framedragged

Thank you I will - out of everything that public health puts out, they never talk to smokers. People who not only smoke currently but have absolutely no intention of quitting.\

I like to hear the other side of the story before I draw an opinion.

I am sorry that you don't. That you prefer your stories one-sided and from "official" sources.

Carry On - right-oh

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 07:15 PM
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a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

What I find truly fascinating is this.

On one hand we have smokers. They stand alone. They have no help or representation and in fact, are not allowed to speak

On the other side - we have an entire army of people looking to financially rape them. Local health units, state health units, anti-smoker businesses disguised as charities (who have employees with 6 figure salaries, every government in the world AND the WHO

On yet the other side - we have organized crime and terror organizations who are looking to intercept this money for their own uses.

Now this issue affects over a quarter of the worlds population. Cocaine alone allowed drug cartels to become big and powerful enough to challenge the Columbian government.

Here is what I find interesting - what will happen when terror organizations and organized crime have sufficient tobacco money to challenge the might and power of governments in the developed world?

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 07:23 PM
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a reply to: DelMarvel

Bull#! I used to be a nurse. There is absolutely no difference int he health of a smoker and a non-smoker at any age. I have seen it both ways. Non-smokers who weak and smokers who were strong.

Currently most people who live to be 100 are smokers! (REmember that definition of people who smoked more than 100 cigarettes in their whole lives.

Lenard Cohen is 80 and still performing. He also kept a long promise to himself to start smoking at 80 and he did so in public.

As for if I would give an alcoholic booze in his old age - well as you may or may not know, many patients get booze in nursing homes. They sell it on the premises. These people are not prisoners you know.

And what value do you see in depriving and end-stage alcohol his booze if he wants it. Are you trying to extend his life by 5 minutes. What kind of person are you that you would deprive dying people what they most want.

Is it a thrill for you - a kind of frizzon up your spine - to finally win! To force your desires on others?

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Feb, 5 2015 @ 07:24 PM
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a reply to: ArMaP

I do not know you. I have never looked in your eyes. I do not know if you are who you say you are. I just said that your story doesn't make sense to me.

Tired of Control Freaks




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