Smoking Bans - Where will it end?

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: Krazysh0t

WellI dont know what your intentions were in bringing up the "war on drugs" I do agree with most of your arguments on this thread so far even if I an smoker.

Oh I was just pointing out to the controlfreaks after posting all those stats on the results of prohibition that the war on drugs has all those same problems and you can't be against one ban, but for another.

This goes for prostitution and gambling as well.

a reply to: Leonidas

How about an opposing point of view to the extreme zealot views!

Yes I am obviously an intelligent person. No I don't need to convince myself of anything. I quit smoking for 3 years and carefully considered smoking again. I considered it for over 6 months.

This has all gone too far. Tobacco Control is out of control.

I may be a stinking, filthy, anti-social, low-class, broke-ass, welfare-sucking, littering, disease-spreading, murdering smoker, but who the hell are you to tell me so!

(BTW I am none of the above. I am speaking for the image of smokers that anti-smokers love to portray us as)

Who are these people to deny me the right to freedom of assembly in a public place? Who are these people to demand that I must smoke only when fully exposed to the elements. Smoking huts with only 2 walls and a roof. Smoking huts are outside to start with. Why must I risk frost-bite?

Asthmatics jumping up to explain their disease and demand "respect" but then come to find out that the biggest problem is lack of medical compliance. It is not demanding "respect" to demand that smokers be treated the way that they are, its using your disease to bully others!

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You are absolutely right. Now I don't take illegal drugs, not even marijuana, with or without inhaling. I am not a prostitute and I have never patronized a prostitute. I don't gamble. I don't even buy lottery tickets,

But all of these things are within the realm of normal human behavior. Without laws to control and ban these normal human behaviors, drug addicts could be their drugs at a reasonable price with reliable quality and stop dying of contaminated drugs. Jails would empty and we could all stop supporting extreme law enforcement. Drug addiction is a medical problem, not a legal one.

Prostitutes could stop being victimized by pimps. The government would not be the sole provider of gambling source and the money would be spread throughout the economy.

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

to all - you don't like what I say. You think I am being unreasonable. disrespectful and lack understanding of respiratory diseases.

Well why haven't asthmatics stood up in public and said "I have asthma, I hate smoking, I have asthma attacks whenever a smoker is within 50 feet of me BUT smokers are people too and have every right to smoke if they want to".

"The privacy of their homes is as sacred as the privacy of my home. They need shelter from the elements just like I do. They need places to socialize just like I do" "They are not filthy stinking, murdering, disease spreading, etc etc. They are people, they have needs, desires and dreams just like do!"

I will manage my disease in the same way I do whenever I encounter anything else that may threaten my respiratory condition. Leave them alone!

Not once - not once have I heard an asthmatic say words to that effect. I have often heard smokers apologize for themselves and go out of their way to be considerate.

Never once have I heard an asthmatic apologize to a smoker.

If asthmatics do not like be portrayed as weak victims in constant need of special protection, then they should stop volunteering to be the poster child for continuing harassment of smokers.

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

"smokers should be punched in the face and shot"

Tired of Control Freaks

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

to all - you don't like what I say. You think I am being unreasonable. disrespectful and lack understanding of respiratory diseases.

Well why haven't asthmatics stood up in public and said "I have asthma, I hate smoking, I have asthma attacks whenever a smoker is within 50 feet of me BUT smokers are people too and have every right to smoke if they want to".

"The privacy of their homes is as sacred as the privacy of my home. They need shelter from the elements just like I do. They need places to socialize just like I do" "They are not filthy stinking, murdering, disease spreading, etc etc. They are people, they have needs, desires and dreams just like do!"

I will manage my disease in the same way I do whenever I encounter anything else that may threaten my respiratory condition. Leave them alone!

Not once - not once have I heard an asthmatic say words to that effect. I have often heard smokers apologize for themselves and go out of their way to be considerate.

Never once have I heard an asthmatic apologize to a smoker.

If asthmatics do not like be portrayed as weak victims in constant need of special protection, then they should stop volunteering to be the poster child for continuing harassment of smokers.

Tired of Control Freaks

Why should that apologize? As a smoker I have never been harassed by someone who suffers with asthma. But at the same time I dont spout the same bs that you do. You are acting like someone has taken away your freedom of speech and how its a massive social injustice.

Why? Because we have to stand in the rain?

Because we can no longer sit in and eat with others? Maybe it was because that some people just dont like the smell of smokers.

Please, feel free to get over yourself. I do have one question for you, whats with replying to yourself? It just seems as if you are trying to troll people constantly without having a healthy debate.

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
Asthmatics jumping up to explain their disease and demand "respect" but then come to find out that the biggest problem is lack of medical compliance. It is not demanding "respect" to demand that smokers be treated the way that they are, its using your disease to bully others!

I'm not demanding any thing (I never demand any thing of other people, only of myself), I'm only asking.

And, no, the problem is not lack of medical compliance, that's the biggest source of the problem, ignoring the other sources doesn't make them not sources of the problem.

And I'm not demanding (or even asking) that smokers are treated in any specific way, that's why I am asking respect from smokers, as with mutual respect all our lives could be better.

PS: can't you see what you're doing? You are acting in the same way of those that you accuse of treating smokers like Hitler did with the Jews before the war, you are searching for someone that you can point as an enemy (when we are only telling you that asthma is a real problem for those unfortunate to have it), someone that you can then accuse of being responsible for all of your own problems.

As I said before, that's the type of mentality that was explored by Salazar to keep Portugal under one of the longest running dictatorship in Europe (he was in power for 36 years, until his death), the governing powers do not have to do a thing, people like that provide the hated (even when relatively mild) that keeps them separated in several smaller groups, making them easier to "manage" by their governments.

As long as we are kept on different sides because of the choices we make (smoking, sexual, religious, sports, etc.) we are an easy target.

With your behaviour against non smokers (and lately, against asthmatics) you are not making friends in that side of the smoker/non smoker situation, and that's that keeping things apart that made it possible to make the bans in the first place.

I think I should say something too. Considering I am an asthmatic.
First of all, I have a smoke every now and then..."Oh you rotten dirtbag, you should be hanged etc blablabla"
Truth is that the odd ciggie in the pub with friends doesn't actually give me an asthma attack and I enjoy it immensely. What does give me attacks are: dust, petrol fumes, certain air fresheners and incense sticks [there may be more things but these are the worst].
Now I have been to homes of smokers and had a few myself and had absolutely no ill effect. The other day I went to a friends house who is a non smoker and had one of those electric air-fresheners that come on every few minutes and squirt the [highly debatable] scent. My lungs immediately closed up and I asked her to remove this thing from where we sat. I had to spray a mighty dose of relief spray to get back to normal. No cigarettes were smoked on that day and none for weeks before or after [as I said, I only smoke sometimes].

II'd love to call people who use incense or air freshener what they call smokers, because lets face it, they are more to a danger to me than any smoker has ever been.
I don't mind smokers or smoking at all. As a matter of fact I miss the times you could sit in a pub with your friends and have deep conversations, rolling a ciggie every now and then.

Nowadays if someone tells me something interesting, they sometimes get up and say "I'm going for a smoke", so those that want to keep up with the convo or like to have a smoke have to get their coats and face winter temperatures because nobody cares if smokers get ill, they want them to suffer.

Which in itself is stupid as we are always told that smokers abuse the NHS [health service], which is just not true, I know smokers who almost never go to the doctors UNLESS they have caught a bad cold or a lung infection or bronchitis or the flu by standing outside in wind and weather. DUUUUUUUUHHHHHHH!!!!!

I understand that some people don't like the smell of smoke. So? there are enough places to go. This ridiculous behaviour nowadays were someone goes all mental because they had to walk past a smoker outside and behave as if they had just been fed cyanide is exaggerated and unnecessary. Also you wouldn't need to walk through anyone's smoke if you'd allow them to stay INDOORS> DUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHH!!!!

Give us establishments where we can enjoy ourselves, and you can go to non-smoking places, and everyone would be happy; but NO, everyone has to bow down to the holy non-smokers [even though they use air fresheners that give me asthma].

Last but not least, the smoking people outside are always 100% more fun than those who don't. Wonder why that is?

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
Never once have I heard an asthmatic apologize to a smoker.

Apologize for what? For having a disease they cannot control?

originally posted by: Hecate666
Now I have been to homes of smokers and had a few myself and had absolutely no ill effect. The other day I went to a friends house who is a non smoker and had one of those electric air-fresheners that come on every few minutes and squirt the [highly debatable] scent. My lungs immediately closed up and I asked her to remove this thing from where we sat. I had to spray a mighty dose of relief spray to get back to normal. No cigarettes were smoked on that day and none for weeks before or after [as I said, I only smoke sometimes].

The problem you have with that "air-freshener" is the same some people have with cigarette smoke, pet dander, mould, etc., why is it that asking for someone to remove the air-freshener is not seen as rude as asking for someone not to smoke?

Last but not least, the smoking people outside are always 100% more fun than those who don't. Wonder why that is?

That's relative, I never found one group or the other to be more fun.

a reply to: Hecate666

Just because smoke doesn't flair up YOUR asthma doesn't mean it doesn't flare up someone else's. Again, MY asthma is highly susceptible to large amounts of cigarette smoke. Yes, I am also susceptible to allergens such as dust and mold, but cigarette smoke ALWAYS makes it worse. But it has to be in large quantities. I can be around it if I'm outside.

What's wrong with just being considerate to the people around you and understanding that just because you don't mind the smell or aren't bothered by the smoke that others may be bothered by those things? The days of sitting at the bar, rolling a cigarette, and smoking it are over. It is just common sense to go outside at this point knowing all we know about how cigarettes effect others.

It's not like anyone is suggesting that we outright ban cigarettes. People are still allowed to get their fix, they just have to go someplace else than they are used to.

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Please explain to me how your right to partake in a VICE requires me with an illness that I cannot control to apologize and be considerate to. I'm really at a loss how you can be so callous to people who suffer from something they have no control over. What you are doing is the equivalent of getting pissed off at a paraplegic holding up a line so he can get through in his wheelchair.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Please explain to me how your right to partake in a VICE requires me with an illness that I cannot control to apologize and be considerate to. I'm really at a loss how you can be so callous to people who suffer from something they have no control over. What you are doing is the equivalent of getting pissed off at a paraplegic holding up a line so he can get through in his wheelchair.

Probably not be what TOCF means but I think the difference is that smokers are not allowed to have businesses that cater to them.

a reply to: Krazysh0t
but at the rate they are going the smokers are gonna have to go to the moon to smoke!!

and obviously the bans aren't there to appease the asthmatics or else they would have covered a lot more than just tobacco!

I'm allergic to chlorine, shall I demand my city stop adding it to the tap water so I can drink it without getting sick? I wouldn't even feel right trying to do that!! No I improvise and move somewhere where I have well water.

Reckon what would happen if all the smokers went around and all those restaurants that had air fresheners in their restrooms and they informed that manager that they are killing their patrons. Or did the same with the pretty smelling people on the streets that they passed. Or here's a good one, Have you ever seen someone taking a picture with a kodak film camera tell them that they are playing a part in giving the kids in Rochester NY brain tumors!!! Or if you knew someone who is dressing up their family nice and pretty to take them for a nice family portrait!
Has anyone gone into a hair salon and tell them that they are killing their patrons every time they give someone a perm???
Have you ever gone to your employer and told him that he is killing you when he asks you to make copies of some
paperwork?

Na you don't any of that!! You just bug the smokers, many of whom just may have just as many gripes about some of your behaviors that are adversely effecting them! Someone raised up the point that smoking causes physical changes in a body. Well sorry but for some of us who have witnessed enough drunks being violent well passing a drunk on the street will put us into defense mode automatically and that will also cause blood pressure to spike and different hormonal balances to occur. Personally I will cross the street!! kind of like those who don't want to be up close to the smokers should cross the street!

being considerate often requires one to accept others flaws and all.

To all those who have said that OTHER asthmatics have the same reaction to smoke as I have to air fresheners. That was my whole point. We all KNOW that some asthmatics can't tolerate smoke, I didn't say they could, so I am not sure why you feel the need to repeat that?
My point was that not only smoke can cause asthma but other things as well, thing YOU might like.
Like above poster said, what would you do if people like me demanded that no establishment use air fresheners, toilet fresheners or bleach?

What would you say if yet another asthmatic told you they can't tolerate perfume [I have problems with some] and all of us would like everything that could possibly trigger an attack BANNED?
I know what you would say, you'd rightly say that the majority has no problems and that you'll continue to use it because you like smelling nice and have a clean establishment.

You'd [rightly] tell me to get my asthma better under control or avoid places with bleach and perfume. And don't even go there telling me that bleach and perfume are a necessity [there are plenty of natural alternatives].

So why oh why can't the same logic apply to smoking?
Why can't you just accept that you don't like smoking but others do? Why this righteousness?

People also die in car accidents, drown in water and choke on chicken bones, why don't we ban them?
[Oh yeah, car exhausts also trigger asthma but none of you holy Non-smokers will give up their gas-guzzlers will they? It's only smokers that are the bane of everyone's life.]

Angry hypocrites. Just leave smokers be and give them somewhere to go, where you don't have to! [fortunately for us].

originally posted by: Hecate666

Angry hypocrites. Just leave smokers be and give them somewhere to go, where you don't have to! [fortunately for us].

We gave you smokers aquariums in airports. Isn't that enough?

You get a place to indulge you repulsive addiction, and we all get to stare and laugh at you.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Krazysh0t
but at the rate they are going the smokers are gonna have to go to the moon to smoke!!

Slippery Slope Fallacy.

and obviously the bans aren't there to appease the asthmatics or else they would have covered a lot more than just tobacco!

FIRST OFF there are ZERO bans in place for cigarettes. There are, however, restrictions on where you can smoke them. So how about dropping the "ban" rhetoric?

Second, what else would these restrictions of covered if they were for asthmatics like you claim? What OTHER vices that people partake in by choice cause asthmatics' lungs to seize up? Please list them.

I'm allergic to chlorine, shall I demand my city stop adding it to the tap water so I can drink it without getting sick? I wouldn't even feel right trying to do that!! No I improvise and move somewhere where I have well water.

You certainly could, but then again the government adding a chemical to the water supply is a bit different than a person partaking in a 100% choice having to partake in place that doesn't bother others.

Reckon what would happen if all the smokers went around and all those restaurants that had air fresheners in their restrooms and they informed that manager that they are killing their patrons. Or did the same with the pretty smelling people on the streets that they passed. Or here's a good one, Have you ever seen someone taking a picture with a kodak film camera tell them that they are playing a part in giving the kids in Rochester NY brain tumors!!! Or if you knew someone who is dressing up their family nice and pretty to take them for a nice family portrait!
Has anyone gone into a hair salon and tell them that they are killing their patrons every time they give someone a perm???
Have you ever gone to your employer and told him that he is killing you when he asks you to make copies of some
paperwork?

When those things start giving people with asthma problems then we can address them too. But pointing out that other pollutants exist doesn't excuse YOUR responsibility as a smoker (again a 100% choice that YOU made, I didn't make a choice to have asthma) to not make life difficult for the people around you.

Na you don't any of that!! You just bug the smokers, many of whom just may have just as many gripes about some of your behaviors that are adversely effecting them! Someone raised up the point that smoking causes physical changes in a body. Well sorry but for some of us who have witnessed enough drunks being violent well passing a drunk on the street will put us into defense mode automatically and that will also cause blood pressure to spike and different hormonal balances to occur. Personally I will cross the street!! kind of like those who don't want to be up close to the smokers should cross the street!

Being drunk in public is already against the law so someone passed out drunk on the street is already in the wrong in the eyes of the law. Your point is dumb.

Being considerate often requires one to accept others flaws and all.

Exactly, smoking is a choice, not a flaw. Asthma is a flaw.

originally posted by: Hecate666
To all those who have said that OTHER asthmatics have the same reaction to smoke as I have to air fresheners. That was my whole point. We all KNOW that some asthmatics can't tolerate smoke, I didn't say they could, so I am not sure why you feel the need to repeat that?
My point was that not only smoke can cause asthma but other things as well, thing YOU might like.
Like above poster said, what would you do if people like me demanded that no establishment use air fresheners, toilet fresheners or bleach?

There is a BIG difference than sitting next to an air freshener and sitting in a bar that has a giant cloud of stale cigarette smoke in it.

What would you say if yet another asthmatic told you they can't tolerate perfume [I have problems with some] and all of us would like everything that could possibly trigger an attack BANNED?

Well you would be asking more than what we are asking since no one is asking for a cigarette ban.

I know what you would say, you'd rightly say that the majority has no problems and that you'll continue to use it because you like smelling nice and have a clean establishment.

You'd [rightly] tell me to get my asthma better under control or avoid places with bleach and perfume. And don't even go there telling me that bleach and perfume are a necessity [there are plenty of natural alternatives].

I wonder how big the population of people asthmaticly allergic to bleach and perfume is compared to the people asthmaticly allergic to cigarette smoke. Not to mention, in the cases for bleach and perfume, you can just leave the area that is effected. Someone has a troubling perfume at the table next to you? Go to a new table. If someone smokes a cigarette, it is a BIT harder to get away from the smoke.

So why oh why can't the same logic apply to smoking?
Why can't you just accept that you don't like smoking but others do? Why this righteousness?

Because cigarette smoke invades more space than those other allergens.

People also die in car accidents, drown in water and choke on chicken bones, why don't we ban them?
[Oh yeah, car exhausts also trigger asthma but none of you holy Non-smokers will give up their gas-guzzlers will they? It's only smokers that are the bane of everyone's life.]

This is a red herring and irrelevant. Not to mention, AGAIN, no one is asking to ban cigarettes. Do you guys even understand the argument you are having or just inventing your own argument?

Angry hypocrites. Just leave smokers be and give them somewhere to go, where you don't have to! [fortunately for us].

They have somewhere to go, outside. Then when they are done they can come back inside. It only takes 5 minutes to smoke a cigarette. It won't kill you to go outside and do it. OR if it is too much of an inconvenience to go outside, just quit. You don't HAVE to smoke.

I'm new to posting here, and I notice the Nazi/Jews analogy often. Why.....
a reply to: ScepticScot

a reply to: Atsbhct

People think they are making a valid comparison by bringing up their poorly understood knowledge of Nazism/Nazi Germany/Hitler, but in reality they are just highlighting their ignorance and at the same time have just admitted defeat in the debate.

Godwin's law

Godwin's law (or Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies)[1][2] is an Internet adage asserting that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1"[2][3]—​ that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism.

The post the person you were responding to was a PERFECT example of someone implementing Godwin's Law.