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Smoking Bans - Where will it end?

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posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 02:26 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
A quick google search seems to totally debunk smoking as preventing Alzheimer's as well. www.skeptical-science.com...


The fist thing the anti smokers will do is debunk any study that claims smoking is good for you. We already know that the anti smoking brigade has used flawed data.




posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 02:38 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks
I have googled smokers paradox and it comes up with a lot more stuff about how smoking is bad for your health. Can you be more specific in what we should be looking at?



What we are looking at is the fact that in China they smoke like chimneys and don't have the health problems that we in the west have. This has always worried the anti smoking brigade as it points out the fact that it might be, other things that are causing the disastrous health statistics enjoyed by the West. This is the "Asian paradox". because it doesn't make any sense to their paradigm. But its not rocket science at all. Their diets are mainly vegetable based, where ours is one made up from triglycerides, from animal products. Most from dairy and can be some 50% of the modern diet. This is the main cause, of us being fat, diabetic, having, blood pressure etc. If you smoke or drink, on this diet,or get stressed on this diet. Your immune system is overloaded.



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 02:39 PM
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a reply to: anonentity

The first thing companies that sell cigarettes will do is try and convince you that smoking is not only not bad for you, its actually good for you!

I seriously can't even F'ing believe this conversation went here in the year 2015. Did you guys just crawl out of a cave that has been closed since 1930 or something?



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 02:49 PM
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originally posted by: anonentity

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks
I have googled smokers paradox and it comes up with a lot more stuff about how smoking is bad for your health. Can you be more specific in what we should be looking at?



What we are looking at is the fact that in China they smoke like chimneys and don't have the health problems that we in the west have. This has always worried the anti smoking brigade as it points out the fact that it might be, other things that are causing the disastrous health statistics enjoyed by the West. This is the "Asian paradox". because it doesn't make any sense to their paradigm. But its not rocket science at all. Their diets are mainly vegetable based, where ours is one made up from triglycerides, from animal products. Most from dairy and can be some 50% of the modern diet. This is the main cause, of us being fat, diabetic, having, blood pressure etc. If you smoke or drink, on this diet,or get stressed on this diet. Your immune system is overloaded.


Yea... You just made all that up.

Facts about China: HEALTH, OBESITY, & SMOKING

For one, your point about being vegetarian is ridiculous being that obesity is on the rise in China:

China “has entered the era of obesity,” according to Ji Chengye, a leading child-health researcher, who says that “the speed of growth is shocking.”
[ USA Today “Obesity of China's kids stuns officials” Jan. 9. 2007 ]

Urban Chinese boys age 6 are 2.5 inches taller and 6.6 pounds heavier on average than Chinese city boys 30 years ago, according to China’s Health Ministry. The Education Ministry reports that 8% of 10- to 12-year-olds in China’s cities are obese, with an additional 15% classified as overweight.
[ USA Today “Obesity of China's kids stuns officials” Jan. 9. 2007 ]



China’s obesity rate is exploding—about 30 to 50 percent annually (or six million to 10 million more obese every year).
[ PBS Newshour “For China's Growing Middle Class, Expanding Waistlines Pose Problem” June 1, 2010 ]

About one in 10 adults in China have diabetes (representing about 90 million diabetics).
[ BBC News “China faces obesity explosion” Sept. 25, 2010 ]


And smoking is most DEFINITELY a public health issue in China


An estimated 2 million Chinese people will die each year of tobacco-related illnesses by 2020 if current smoking rates continue (up from 1.2 million in 2011), according to a Jan. 2011 report by a panel of Chinese and international health experts and economists.
[ Time Mag. “China Shows Little Progress in Kicking Its Smoking Habit” Feb. 1, 2011 ]

By 2030, the above figure is expected to rise to a staggering 3.5 million deaths each year — which would account for nearly half the world’s annual smoking-related deaths.
[ Time Mag. “China Shows Little Progress in Kicking Its Smoking Habit” Feb. 1, 2011 ]


Though I guess it is easy to argue these things when you don't provide actual sources for your claims.



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 02:49 PM
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a reply to: framedragged

First of all - to all - my apologies - its NOT vitamin B12 - Niacin is vitamin B3

So where is this biological PROOF that smoking causes lung cancer?

You all are quick to point out that there are other sources of niacin and CO ect ect ect. and why don't I just take a Big Pharma pill and that is right after I point out that Big Pharma funds anti-smoker campaigns in order to take over the nicotine, niacin and tobacco market from Big Tobacco.

Then you accuse ME of being a shill for Big Tobacco?????

Now I am a smoker. I make no bones about it. I joined this site in 2009 and my introductory to ATS included the fact that I was a pro-choice activist. I suffer all the humilations and harassment of a smoker. No one ever has to pay me to defend myself.

But all you people on the other hand????? Maybe you get paid by Big Pharma and you are all Big Pharma shills?

So you dismiss all of my links and where my links are indisputable, you promote Big Pharma products as a safer alternative to smoking while getting the same benefits. And yet non-smokers continue to get fatter, continue to get asthma, continue to get Alzeimers', Parkinsons, continue to let pregnant mothers die of pre-eclampsia (I wonder how safe that is for the baby?) So why aren't these BIG PHARMA alternatives working?

But yet ....I asked a simple question...where is this biological proof that smoking causes lung cancer. I posted proof in the form of a court document....yet none of you have been polite enough to give me the same courtesy.

Where is this PROOF?

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:02 PM
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a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Schizophrenia and Smoking

www.brainfacts.org...




Nicotine and its brain receptors—proteins on the surface of cells that receive chemical messages—are keys to understanding the links between smoking and schizophrenia. Already, research has revealed that: Nicotine and its receptors are involved in functions such as cognition or thinking ability, reward, movement, and pain relief. Schizophrenia patients have fewer and more poorly functioning nicotinic receptors, especially in the hippocampus, cortex, and cells that wrap the thalamus—brain areas involved in several cognitive and sensory deficits of schizophrenia. Increased nicotine intake—from smoking cigarettes or sometimes from a skin patch, gum, or nasal spray—may temporarily normalize sensory disruptions of schizophrenia. For example, nicotine may improve eye tracking abnormalities, mostly by altering activity in the hippocampus and brain areas involved in eye movement. Nicotine also has been reported to improve the brain’s ability to filter sounds and to respond and adapt to strong sensory inputs. Cognitive ability in people with schizophrenia may get a boost from nicotine as well, including temporary enhancements in learning, memory, processing speed, and attention. Several studies have examined spatial working memory—the ability to hold information in the brain and recall it when prompted. Spatial working memory is involved in planning, judgment, and attention—tasks that people with schizophrenia find difficult. Schizophrenia patients who smoked or who received nasal spray nicotine temporarily enhanced their spatial working memory, and those who quit had further impairments.


The biological FACT is that nicotene and its derivative niacin (vitamin B3) are import to brain and neurological functioning.

No - nicotene supplied by Big PHARMA in the form of patches, sprays, inhalers etc do not work as effectively as smoking. Smoking provides nicotene and all its derivatives (niacin is not the only one) across the blood and brain barrier within 7 seconds. This delivery system is more effective than anything Big PHARMA can provide. It whomps the hell out of BIG PHARMA products.

Yes - you can buy niacin in a drug store But its not the same thing.

All the neurological disorders - manic-depression, depression, Alzeimers, Parkinson's, MS - mood disorders, and simple normal brain functioning are all improved by smoking

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:02 PM
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originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
Everyone acts as though the smoke from tobacco is the CAUSE of disease.

No.



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:04 PM
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a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Still waiting for that biological proof about lung cancer??? Come on really - you people have been saying it for over 70 years now...it should come easily to hand.

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:07 PM
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originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: framedragged

First of all - to all - my apologies - its NOT vitamin B12 - Niacin is vitamin B3

So where is this biological PROOF that smoking causes lung cancer?

You all are quick to point out that there are other sources of niacin and CO ect ect ect. and why don't I just take a Big Pharma pill and that is right after I point out that Big Pharma funds anti-smoker campaigns in order to take over the nicotine, niacin and tobacco market from Big Tobacco.

Then you accuse ME of being a shill for Big Tobacco?????

Now I am a smoker. I make no bones about it. I joined this site in 2009 and my introductory to ATS included the fact that I was a pro-choice activist. I suffer all the humilations and harassment of a smoker. No one ever has to pay me to defend myself.

But all you people on the other hand????? Maybe you get paid by Big Pharma and you are all Big Pharma shills?

So you dismiss all of my links and where my links are indisputable, you promote Big Pharma products as a safer alternative to smoking while getting the same benefits. And yet non-smokers continue to get fatter, continue to get asthma, continue to get Alzeimers', Parkinsons, continue to let pregnant mothers die of pre-eclampsia (I wonder how safe that is for the baby?) So why aren't these BIG PHARMA alternatives working?

But yet ....I asked a simple question...where is this biological proof that smoking causes lung cancer. I posted proof in the form of a court document....yet none of you have been polite enough to give me the same courtesy.

Where is this PROOF?

Tired of Control Freaks




The lack of B3 causes a condition similar to Schizophrenia. The modern processed foods have no B3 or anything else. Add in the fact That the lack of B3 causes Beri beri. That alone is a cause for concern.

I predict that the anti smokers will die off because very soon funding will be withdrawn, it will be withdrawn because the research will say categorically that its the Western diet that's causing illness. This will cause some seriously big Corporations to wish they hadn't started the campaign in the first place as it will backfire.



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:17 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

This is an epidimiological study (observational) and not a biological one with someones opinion attached as a conclusion.

Find where a scientist went into a lab and found the CAUSE of lung cancer

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:25 PM
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a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

This page sources every single one of its claims with the studies they came from.
Tobac co, smoking and cancer: the evidence

For further reading

The history of the discovery of the cigarette–lung cancer link: evidentiary traditions, corporate denial, global toll

Though I expect you to move the goal posts back again and say this evidence isn't good enough either, seeing as how you don't know how to argue honestly.
edit on 28-1-2015 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:36 PM
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a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Would you all like some help from someone who doesn't rely on anti-smoker sound-bites to form my opinions?

P53 mutation

cdn.intechopen.com...




Even in the absence of p53 mutations, p53 func tion can be inactivated by other mechanisms, such as infection with an "oncogenic" human papillomavirus type, such as HPV16 or HPV18.


Anti-smokers told us from the 1960's and onwards that cervical cancer was CAUSED by smoking. We now know that the cause of all cervical cancer is HPV and there is a vaccine out that reportedly protects against catching the strain of HPV that causes cervical cancer.

Now just why did the anti-smokers BELIEVE that smoking caused cervical cancer - why - it was because of statistical mathematics and studies the PROVED that smoking caused cervical cancer.

In an odd way they were right. Smokers do get cervical cancer more than non-smokers. But when you find an association like that, it is important that biological studies confirm the association. And no biological study could find why smoking should cause cervical cancer.

The reason no one could prove that smoking causes cervical cancer is because it doesn't. The actual cause of cervical cancer is HPV, a sexually transmitted virus. And the association that they should have thought of was sex. Who has more sex - a prostitute or a nun and who is more likely to smoke - a prostitute or a nun?

Here is a well-known fact about smokers. We get more sexual partners. Smokers are risk-takers because we are more extroverted, more social and gosh darn but we are still the cool kids in school!

The p53 mutation is an indicator of infection by HPV.

And guess what cancer is most associated with HPV - why its the cancers that smokers get!!!!!

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:38 PM
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a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks
Only the article you linked to points out that nicotine taken by nasal spray or patches also works. It also points out that the results are inconclusive.
Do you read the articles you link to it are taken from the big bumper book of pro smoking myths?



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:41 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

YUP - every claim in the first paper is backed up by a study. And every study is epidimiology (statistics)

Come on KrazySHOTS - it should not be that hard! Where is the biological proof.

Epidimiology is the pseudo-science of observation. You observe different things and try to find an association BUT it is only to be used to direct the research of hard scientists.

For instance Epidimiology was used during a plague to pinpoint a well that was believed to be the source of the bacteria that was causing the plague. This was very useful because it directed researchers to the well where scientific testing could confirm the association.

All you are providing me is studies done over and over again showing that there is an association between smoking and lung cancer.

But after almost 80 years of looking, hard science has never been able to confirm that the association exists.

Please hand over the proof. It should be commonly available.

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:42 PM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

ScepticScot

YUP that what BIG PHARMA tells us. Smokers will tell you different.

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:44 PM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

Excuse me - since when did brainfacts.org become a pro-smoking institute??

www.brainfacts.org...

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:51 PM
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a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks
It is not the source but your interpretation of what it is telling you.
Every link you have provided that I have read doesn't actually say what you are claiming.



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:55 PM
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a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks
And since you like brainfacts as a source why not use the search function on it to research smoking? Or do you only approve of the articles on it that you think agree with you?



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:55 PM
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a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

And further to this conversation

You will note that the uterus and cervix are not the only organs in the human body that are covered by a mucous membrane. The entire respiratory system is constructed in the exact same fashion

Now the anti-smokers said for decades that smoker, snuff, dip etc. are all CAUSED by tobacco

But gosh-darn those hard scientists, they just couldn't confirm that association (bastards must be in the pay of Big Tobacco)

They discovered that the CAUSE of oral-pharangeal cancers was also HPV!

Now here I am just going to link you to a previous thread i wrote on this subject.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I can tell you that the tip-off that smoking DOES NOT cause oral-pharangeal cancers was when the incidence of oral-pharangeal cancers was doubling and more after 60 years of anti-smoker campaigns and 30 years after the smoking rate for men had decreased by half

Tired of Control Freaks



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