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Smoking Bans - Where will it end?

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posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 06:52 AM
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originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

I hate using the Godwin thing, but man smokers rights verses jews and nazi's is really a Godwin thing, sorry.

I don't feel sorry for smokers at all, they pollute the air and it stinks.
But I agree they should be allowed to do it in their own house, as an apartment dweller myself, I know my apartment complex is pushing for 100% smoke free, I hope they get it.



But do you pay their rent? Just sayin'.

Ok, we get the idea that you prefer to dictate how others should live, but to say you hope your building goes smoke free, have fun with that. You just denied a certain portion of your population the right to do what they want in their own homes, because it offends you.

The smokers are not polluting the air in your apartment, but let me guess, you also believe cows in Argentina contribute to greenhouse gases. I see, it is cows and smokers contributing to the demise of our atmosphere, is that what you really think?




posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 07:01 AM
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originally posted by: WarminIndy
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Here is something I think we should discuss when it comes to personal responsibility. You are offended by smokers in a bar because you want to go where you can feel free to go without inconvenience. I want to know that all those alcoholics are not going to be driving on the city streets.

Which is a greater health issue? Smokers or drunk drivers from those same bars you just mentioned?


Why does it have to be about a "greater" health issue? Can't they just be separate health issues that we deal with separately? Are you trying to suggest that we can only deal with one or the other or something? Because that is silly and stupid.


We have legislated drunk driving, but how effective has that been anyway? And with the enormous cost of alcoholism in health care and the destruction of families, leading to domestic violence and abuse, I don't think bars should be brought into the discussion when it comes to where you want to go and not be inconvenienced.


I'd say it is effective at deterring the people on the fence about these things. Sure, some people don't care and do it anyways, but some people are assholes. What can you do? Would you recommend taking these laws off the books or something because they aren't as effective as you'd like them to be?


I am inconvenienced by drunk patrons in bars, because they take my life and everyone else's when they decide to drink so much they can't stand up and then drive home in their cars. THAT legislation has changed nothing.


You lie. You know damn well that there are people who would otherwise have driven home drunk that don't do it because of the risks associated with getting pulled over. You are being hyperbolic here, but again, would you recommend taking these laws off the books because they aren't as effective as you'd like them to be? What would you change them to to be MORE effective?


And alcoholism also leads to cirrhosis. but hey, as long as they aren't forcing you to drink, then it could be a minor inconvenience when you are paying for their medical bills through Medicare.


I'm not trying to ban people from smoking, so this analogy is stupid. I can make the same argument about smoking, but I don't because I'm not trying to ban it.


It is your choice not to smoke, but can you really dictate where smokers should not be, because the smell offends you? You know bars have smokers, but because it offends you, you want no smokers there. Do smokers now have no right to go where they can enjoy themselves, just like the alcoholic patrons in the same bars you are talking about?


YES, I can. It is about my PERSONAL health vs YOUR convenience. My health is negatively effected so you can smoke in comfort. How is THAT fair?

Look at is this way, if we gave bars a choice to be smoking or non-smoking establishments. YOU would still be able to go to 100% of the establishments in the area because all you'd have to do is step outside to smoke at the non-smoking establishments. I on the other hand am now not able to go to X number of establishments (where X is the number of establishments that allow smoking indoors), because I CANNOT breathe. And what happens if the places that now let smoking indoors are my favorite places to hang out?

In the case where you aren't allowed to smoke indoors anywhere, we can BOTH go to 100% of the establishments in the area. How is it fair that YOU are allowed to partake in a VICE in comfort at the expense of MY health? That's bulls#. I don't care how you spin it, but I am NOT for letting you smoke indoors EVER AGAIN. I don't care if you smoke though. That's your decision.
edit on 27-1-2015 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 07:02 AM
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a reply to: Seamrog

Ah yes. If you can't beat'em, insult'em.
Shall I throw away thousands of dollars worth of cigars and humidors just so you can be happy? Sorry, not gonna happen. Just lit my morning stogie.....a Montecristo Media Noche Edmundo as a matter of fact.
Here, have one. You'll feel better.



Puff. Puff. Puff.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 07:21 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yes, what can you do?

Apply that to smokers.


Tell me again, how are drunks sitting on the fence when it comes to driving? I do not lie, and how many times have you seen it yourself? Don't lie. And most bars have ventilation that reduces smoke, you know this.

I have no problem going outside to smoke, but tell me, are you really more concerned about the smell than you are about your health and simply using your health as the mask?

So let's have this, a bar for smokers and a bar for non-smokers. You stay out of ours and we stay out of yours, deal? But if one single drunk from your bar gets into a car and drives, then we want to shut yours down because drunk drivers can be instantly fatal, but hey, if you can't stop them, then what can you do?

Sit on the fence with them.
edit on 1/27/2015 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 07:24 AM
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a reply to: WarminIndy

That's all you have to say in response to that long post? I asked quite a few questions in that post, so I'm not even sure which one you are answering with that "Yes".

I thought you were actually going to engage me beyond hyperbole and trivial posts unlike the other guy. Guess I was wrong.
edit on 27-1-2015 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 07:26 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: WarminIndy

That's all you have to say in response to that long post? I asked quite a few questions in that post, so I'm not even sure which one you are answering with that "Yes".

I thought you were actually going to engage me beyond hyperbole and trivial posts unlike the other guy. Guess I was wrong.


I edited, give a little time.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 07:27 AM
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originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: Seamrog

Ah yes. If you can't beat'em, insult'em.
Shall I throw away thousands of dollars worth of cigars and humidors just so you can be happy? Sorry, not gonna happen. Just lit my morning stogie.....a Montecristo Media Noche Edmundo as a matter of fact.
Here, have one. You'll feel better.



Puff. Puff. Puff.


Is that a Cuban that you are now legal to get?



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 07:27 AM
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a reply to: Seamrog




they habitually litter everywhere they go.


Wrong AGAIN. I habitually pick up others trash and carry a small tin to keep cigarette butts, rather than throw them on the ground. And, just because I don't want smoker's breath, I carry mints or gum every where.
You generalize smokers as horrible people, bent on ruining your little corner of the world and want everything the way you think it should be. You are the kind of person I would go out of my way to offend, just for your prissy "that offends me so it should be illegal" attitude.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 07:28 AM
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originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: Krazysh0t

And we, as smokers, just want a place where we can congregate and socialize in a manner that we feel comfortable with. Its the exact same thing that you want!

You have stated (rather arrogantly, I might add) that the smoking bans are so popular that the public would never go back to the days when smoking was allowed in privately - owned hospitality venues. If this is true, why do these smoking bans require enforcement officers?

When smoking was banned in government offices, no one felt the need to hire police officers to enforce the law. Smokers willingly complied with the law because we understood that people like yourself needed to be able to go to a government office to conduct your business.

Same thing happened in grocery bans and in bans that occurred anyplace where the general public HAD to enter.

But a bar or a restaurant is not a place where you HAVE to go. You have the freedom to choose to go to a bar or restaurant that doesn't allow smoking because that is the way the owners want it.

Are you afraid that smoking bans in hospitality venues are truthfully so unpopular that if the ban was lifted, EVERY bar and restaurant owner would love to welcome smokers back as their customers.

Tired of Control Freaks


Rather arrogantly? Says the man who likened smokers to jews persecuted during WW2 and calls asthmatics "asthma divas".

You thoroughly unpleasant person. ...Do you know what its like to not be able to catch enough breath? I do . Do you know why? Because my mother in all her youthful wisdom smoked a lot during her entire pregnancy with me . So now and I have to carry an inhaler everywhere I go and hope desperately to not panic on the occasions I've left it at home .

My god you are a selfish beep hole. Ugh.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 07:30 AM
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originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: Seamrog




they habitually litter everywhere they go.


Wrong AGAIN. I habitually pick up others trash and carry a small tin to keep cigarette butts, rather than throw them on the ground. And, just because I don't want smoker's breath, I carry mints or gum every where.
You generalize smokers as horrible people, bent on ruining your little corner of the world and want everything the way you think it should be. You are the kind of person I would go out of my way to offend, just for your prissy "that offends me so it should be illegal" attitude.



NO. He is not wrong. Every beach is littered with thousands of butts, mixed in with the sand. It's disgusting. As are pavements everywhere .



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 07:34 AM
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originally posted by: WarminIndy
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yes, what can you do?

Apply that to smokers.


Tell me again, how are drunks sitting on the fence when it comes to driving? I do not lie, and how many times have you seen it yourself? Don't lie. And most bars have ventilation that reduces smoke, you know this.

I have no problem going outside to smoke, but tell me, are you really more concerned about the smell than you are about your health and simply using your health as the mask?

So let's have this, a bar for smokers and a bar for non-smokers. You stay out of ours and we stay out of yours, deal? But if one single drunk from your bar gets into a car and drives, then we want to shut yours down because drunk drivers can be instantly fatal, but hey, if you can't stop them, then what can you do?

Sit on the fence with them.



I'm embarrassed for you that you used that analogy. Let me explain it to you very simply. Your comparison does t work because people NEED cars. Nobody NEED to smoke.

Understood?



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 07:36 AM
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a reply to: WarminIndy

No


Not yet



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 07:40 AM
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a reply to: 3danimator2014

Maybe he/she should stop generalizing ALL smokers as litter bugs. If we're going to get rid of everything offensive and bad for your health, let's shut down the cars and buses first. They contribute to pollution far more than smoking. But that doesn't fit into your little rant, so it's not in the discussion. Right? Right.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 07:43 AM
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originally posted by: WarminIndy
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yes, what can you do?

Apply that to smokers.


Tell me again, how are drunks sitting on the fence when it comes to driving? I do not lie, and how many times have you seen it yourself? Don't lie. And most bars have ventilation that reduces smoke, you know this.


No I am talking about a drunk person being responsible and calling a cab because he doesn't want to risk getting pulled over on the drive home. Or the group that plans ahead and brings a designated driver. Do you deny that things like this haven't increased since we instituted drunk driving rules? I'm not trying to suggest that people still don't drive drunk, but you are lying if you believe that NO one is listening to these laws.

As for your ventilation, that is bullcrap. Have you seen a bar at maximum capacity where everyone has a cigarette in their hands? The ventilation gets overwhelmed.


I have no problem going outside to smoke, but tell me, are you really more concerned about the smell than you are about your health and simply using your health as the mask?


No I am not using my health as a mask. Most of my friends smoke. Many times when they go outside to smoke, I will go with them as I don't mind the smell (I don't like it, but it's whatever) and the low dosage of smoke in my lungs doesn't cause them to seize up on me.


So let's have this, a bar for smokers and a bar for non-smokers. You stay out of ours and we stay out of yours, deal? But if one single drunk from your bar gets into a car and drives, then we want to shut yours down because drunk drivers can be instantly fatal, but hey, if you can't stop them, then what can you do?

Sit on the fence with them.


NO deal. I already explained how that is more fair for you. You are able to go to 100% of the bars while I can only go to (100-X)% of the bars now thanks to allowing smoking. Again, you are trying to SELFISHLY allow yourself convenience at the expense of MY health. That is unfair and against the principles of our government. Your rights end where MY rights begin and if your smoking is causing a health hazard to me, then it is YOUR responsibility not to smoke near me. Seeing as how most people are too selfish to care about others' breathing issues, we need laws to FORCE you outside. Clearly, these laws were made for people like you.

By your same logic, I should be able to request that we have bars where people can walk up and punch random people in the face and bars that don't allow that activity. If you don't want to be punched in the face, don't go to those bars.

Why do you continue to try to conflate the drunk driving issue with the smoking issue? They are two SEPARATE issues with their own nuances and needs. They get handled by separate laws (you still haven't suggested a better law to stop drunk drivers, that is unless you want to repeal the laws altogether). You are comparing apples to oranges.
edit on 27-1-2015 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 07:47 AM
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originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: WarminIndy
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yes, what can you do?

Apply that to smokers.


Tell me again, how are drunks sitting on the fence when it comes to driving? I do not lie, and how many times have you seen it yourself? Don't lie. And most bars have ventilation that reduces smoke, you know this.

I have no problem going outside to smoke, but tell me, are you really more concerned about the smell than you are about your health and simply using your health as the mask?

So let's have this, a bar for smokers and a bar for non-smokers. You stay out of ours and we stay out of yours, deal? But if one single drunk from your bar gets into a car and drives, then we want to shut yours down because drunk drivers can be instantly fatal, but hey, if you can't stop them, then what can you do?

Sit on the fence with them.



I'm embarrassed for you that you used that analogy. Let me explain it to you very simply. Your comparison does t work because people NEED cars. Nobody NEED to smoke.

Understood?


No, you are conditioned to believe you need cars. There are many countries where people prefer bicycles.

Only Western countries feel that need, because they are conditioned. You know something, those EPA regulations are taxes in which it is beneficial to keep people driving in order to do more car inspections and the factories producing these automobiles and parts for them, are paying heavy taxes for the EPA.

But I don't like the idea of nuclear energy or the fact that nuclear waste is transported across country on interstates. But what do you say about that inconvenience?

I don't have a car, drunk drivers don't need to get into cars. You don't NEED a car, you are just conditioned to believe you do.

You, right now if you work, are paying a portion of EPA taxes through every consumer good you buy, even your car and the gasoline for it, not to mention the oil, transmission fluid, and every other thing required for your car to function properly, the government is making big bucks of your car and you driving it.

But hey, you don't mind fracking for said gasoline and oil, so let's destroy the earth for your conditioned need. In Maryland, the government is making them pay rain tax, imagine that.

EPA and taxes

You are conditioned to believe you need a car.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 08:18 AM
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Just wanted to throw this in : www.cpsc.gov...



What Causes Indoor Air Problems?
Indoor pollution sources that release gases or particles into the air are the primary cause of indoor air quality problems in homes. Inadequate ventilation can increase indoor pollutant levels by not bringing in enough outdoor air to dilute emissions from indoor sources and by not carrying indoor air pollutants out of the home. High temperature and humidity levels can also increase concentrations of some pollutants.

Pollutant Sources
There are many sources of indoor air pollution in any home. These include combustion sources such as oil, gas, kerosene, coal, wood, and tobacco products; building materials and furnishings as diverse as deteriorated, asbestos-containing insulation, wet or damp carpet, and cabinetry or furniture made of certain pressed wood products; products for household cleaning and maintenance, personal care, or hobbies; central heating and cooling systems and humidification devices; and outdoor sources such as radon, pesticides, and outdoor air pollution.

The relative importance of any single source depends on how much of a given pollutant it emits and how hazardous those emissions are. In some cases, factors such as how old the source is and whether it is properly maintained are significant. For example, an improperly adjusted gas stove can emit significantly more carbon monoxide than one that is properly adjusted.

Some sources, such as building materials, furnishings, and household products like air fresheners, release pollutants more or less continuously. Other sources, related to activities carried out in the home, release pollutants intermittently. These include smoking, the use of unvented or malfunction-ing stoves, furnaces, or space heaters, the use of solvents in cleaning and hobby activities, the use of paint strippers in redecorating activities, and the use of cleaning products and pesticides in housekeeping. High pollutant concentrations can remain in the air for long periods after some of these activities.


For those on the anti smoking side, the first point you'll make is "Look!! Cigarette Smoke!!" and ignore all the other things you're breathing. After you've torn out all the old carpet, replaced the cabinets, unplugged all the air fresheners [ they smell good so they just can't be bad for you right? ] had a test for asbestos if you live in an older home or building, throw away all your cleaning products, get rid of all the bug spray or insect repellent and have your heating system checked and fixed if needed, junk that new car [ all that plastic and treated leather omitting fumes ya know ]...........then we can start talking about second hand smoke. But, once again, that doesn't fit the "Get The Smokers!!" campaign, so it'll be ignored or brushed aside because "But...But... that's different!!"



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 08:21 AM
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originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: Seamrog




they habitually litter everywhere they go.


Wrong AGAIN. I habitually pick up others trash and carry a small tin to keep cigarette butts, rather than throw them on the ground. And, just because I don't want smoker's breath, I carry mints or gum every where.
You generalize smokers as horrible people, bent on ruining your little corner of the world and want everything the way you think it should be. You are the kind of person I would go out of my way to offend, just for your prissy "that offends me so it should be illegal" attitude.



I have stated nothing but FACTS, you are interjecting opinion.

Smokers stink - breath, car, house, clothes, hair - all of it. You just can't smell it because you've ruined your olfactory receptors and taste buds.

Everyone else on the planet who has to deal with you though, knows you stink. No mint is going to cover that up for more than a minute.

Are you honestly going to tell me that you've never thrown a cigarette butt on the ground and left it there? Can you do that and be intellectually honest with yourself?

Tell you what - next stoplight you're at, look down at the curb beside you and count all the cigarette butts.

You won't get through counting half of them before you're jonesing for your next fix.

Smokers LITTER - everywhere. Fact. Demonstrable fact.



When I"m forced to fly, I always make an effort to find a smoker's aquarium in the terminal while waiting for my flight. It is a great way to pass the time.

We made a game of it at CLT. You would not believe the number of smokers who couldn't make sense of the big "PULL" sign on the door. Non-smokers believe it, but you would not.

"Midvale School for the Gifted" comes to mind...



edit on 27-1-2015 by Seamrog because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 08:30 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

That's right, I don't go to bars where people randomly punch each other.

People are people and are going to do what people want to do.

And your rights end where mine begin.

But let's get this straight, I only go to bars when my brother takes me out to eat and he likes to go to bars. But this idea that somehow drunk driving decreased because of legislation against it, that is really naive of you. Just because maybe you and your friends call cabs or have designated drivers does not mean the rest of the world does that.

And that isn't just from bars, it is also from people at home going out to buy more, those who are intoxicated while at work (and those intoxicated from marijuana use on the job) and those who buy alcohol and drink it while driving.

But the OP is about laws against smoking in your own home, which is really the substance of the issue, are you permitted to tell your smoking friends that they cannot smoke in their own homes and do you visit your friends at their homes while they smoke?

Do you mean that your smoking friends respect you so much that they don't smoke in front of you while you are visiting them?



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 08:34 AM
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originally posted by: Seamrog

originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: Seamrog




they habitually litter everywhere they go.


Wrong AGAIN. I habitually pick up others trash and carry a small tin to keep cigarette butts, rather than throw them on the ground. And, just because I don't want smoker's breath, I carry mints or gum every where.
You generalize smokers as horrible people, bent on ruining your little corner of the world and want everything the way you think it should be. You are the kind of person I would go out of my way to offend, just for your prissy "that offends me so it should be illegal" attitude.



I have stated nothing but FACTS, you are interjecting opinion.

Smokers stink - breath, car, house, clothes, hair - all of it. You just can't smell it because you've ruined your olfactory receptors and taste buds.

Everyone else on the planet who has to deal with you though, knows you stink. No mint is going to cover that up for more than a minute.

Are you honestly going to tell me that you've never thrown a cigarette butt on the ground and left it there? Can you do that and be intellectually honest with yourself?

Tell you what - next stoplight you're at, look down at the curb beside you and count all the cigarette butts.

You won't get through counting half of them before you're jonesing for your next fix.

Smokers LITTER - everywhere. Fact. Demonstrable fact.



When I"m forced to fly, I always make an effort to find a smoker's aquarium in the terminal while waiting for my flight. It is a great way to pass the time.

We made a game of it at CLT. You would not believe the number of smokers who couldn't make sense of the big "PULL" sign on the door. Non-smokers believe it, but you would not.

"Midvale School for the Gifted" comes to mind...




I would think you'd be more offended by people who didn't take showers.

But hey, if we stink and that's unpleasant to you, perhaps you could go down to the ghetto and tell everyone there to take a shower, what do you say about that?



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 08:39 AM
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originally posted by: WarminIndy
a reply to: Krazysh0t

That's right, I don't go to bars where people randomly punch each other.

People are people and are going to do what people want to do.

And your rights end where mine begin.


Right, I've been saying that all along. My right to be healthy supercedes YOUR right to be comfortable while partaking in a vice that is also a choice you made.


But let's get this straight, I only go to bars when my brother takes me out to eat and he likes to go to bars. But this idea that somehow drunk driving decreased because of legislation against it, that is really naive of you. Just because maybe you and your friends call cabs or have designated drivers does not mean the rest of the world does that.


So again, do you want to repeal these drunk driving laws? Do you have a better solution to keep them in check? Why haven't you answered these questions?


And that isn't just from bars, it is also from people at home going out to buy more, those who are intoxicated while at work (and those intoxicated from marijuana use on the job) and those who buy alcohol and drink it while driving.


Yes, it is a problem, but the fact that you are juxtaposing it onto the smoking issue is intellectually dishonest. They are two separate issues with two COMPLETELY separate arguments for and against them. You are comparing apples and oranges here and are straying off topic.


But the OP is about laws against smoking in your own home, which is really the substance of the issue, are you permitted to tell your smoking friends that they cannot smoke in their own homes and do you visit your friends at their homes while they smoke?


I don't agree with those laws. I think you should be able to smoke in your car, in your home, heck I don't even have a problem if you smoke on the other side of the door of a building to shelter yourself from the wind. The little amount of smoke that would wander into the building from you standing there wouldn't effect me pretty much at all. All -I- care about is that you smoke outside in public places.


Do you mean that your smoking friends respect you so much that they don't smoke in front of you while you are visiting them?


Depends on where I go. Some smoking friends don't let anyone smoke inside their homes because they don't want their homes to stink of cigarettes. Others don't care. I certainly don't say anything to the ones that DO smoke inside their homes, I just usually end up leaving there within an hour or two because I can't breath anymore. It's their home after all.



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