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Smoking Bans - Where will it end?

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posted on Jan, 26 2015 @ 06:20 AM
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a reply to: 3danimator2014

I have to go to work now - but when I return, we will have a serious discussion regarding the Constitution, the meaning of the Right of Peaceful Assembly, the Human Rights Code and the right to be free of harassment, the meaning of "spoiled identity.

And we will directly compare what is happening to smokers today and what happened to Jews (and smokers) in pre-war Germany.

We will also discuss a paper by Yale University that discusses directly how Anti-smoker fanatics are bypassing the democratic process and the negative impact on society.

If you seriously wish to debate - Read this link

digitalcommons.law.yale.edu...

We will leave aside all considerations of health or personal preference and deal only with the law!

Tired of Control Freaks




posted on Jan, 26 2015 @ 06:29 AM
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I'll drop my 2cents as a smoker. I hate the hypocrisy of making cigarette's smoke the scapegoat for all the # we have to deal with everyday. I feel it's just a way to let us accept there is some kind of pollution we HAVE TO live with, while some other things being unnecessary must be demonized. Fun fact, we don't really have to, but our society is broken.

I am of the idea that if you could smoke what you grow yourself there wouldn't be so many dramas, yes you are hurting yourself, however how much of it is due to the uncontrollable production of cigarettes? Those pesky additives you can't get rid of aren't always find in the plant you are smoking.

Having said that I find perfectly fine the ban of smoking in public areas, I agree that you shouldn't really smoke in front of your children (or other people's children for what it matters), I understand also there are more sensitive people, despite I'm baffled how this sensitivity is developed, I mean smog is far more oppressive and omnipresent in every city in the world, but cigarettes make you sick instantly (this is not to bash who is hypersensitive, I just wonder what's the cause for a specific hypersensitivity given our omni-polluted air)?

If you don't want to smell cigarettes for the sake of your health it's perfectly fine and it's up to me who smoke to find a way to not interfere with other's who don't. If there is no way to avoid "hurting" others I shouldn't do it (and in fact I don't).
But why are we doing this irrational attack towards one of a mixture of multiple causes, but we still sell cigarettes legally, we even expanded the market to have e-cigs (which are surely as damageful as normal cigs) and we do nothing to reduce cities pollution or we do not care if the same toxicity comes from a bbq or some kind of anti-mosquito stuff? Because frankly, apart hypersensitive, people smelling cigarette smoke once in a while and in small quantity has no effects, no need to check medical documents to know this, it takes 30 years of 20 cig per day to develop a cancer, if you smelled 20 times per year from a moron who refuses to respect you, you are going to develop that cancer at the age of 10900. The only bad thing is the "bad smell" in that case.

So what is our effort to improve our health when we aren't talking about the demon of tobacco? Because all this strawman did is having terrifying messages on the packs and loads of pharma products to cure the addiction, kind of hegelian dialectic. Because pollution in the cities has raised by much more than smoke, and junk food is everywhere passed as healthy.
Also did anyone notice that a lot of public places after the ban smelled of a mixture of cheap perfume and sweat? If anyone is sensitive to that or we find it's not "healthy" should we ban sweating in public? Or using perfume to cover up?

I should have the freedom of smoking when the smell and the effects aren't affecting anyone else. This should also apply to # perfumes and other things like bbqs, cleaning products and exhaust pollution, after all there are sensitive people to these aswell, but it doesn't. So after all it's an arbitrary hate, partly justified, but vastly exaggerated in 99% of the cases I personally experienced (anectodal experience ofc). Also I can't work to make the product I want to smoke less detrimental because I can't grow it myself, it's the state who controls the production and sales and it's the state that controls the medicine to "cure" it.

Smoking is bad, don't do it and don't hurt the people around you if you really want to. However if you are offended by the smell without a health risk then you kinda have to suck it up as much as the guy in a disco who has to smell the perfumed sweat of other customers, because perfumes aren't necessary after all are they?

I'm still waiting for the day that "respect" is going to be a law (because in the tantalizing amount of cases it's a matter of being civil and understand that your freedom ends where somebody else's starts). Until then I hope most people freaking out for cigarettes will also have in their agenda some protest against high level of pollution in the air, water, food and their lack of freedom when it comes to feed and cure yourself. In my own unlucky experience the ones freaking aren't that careful about other things, I'm pretty sure many of you have other experiences and feel more justified to get mad about cigs (and I respect that).



posted on Jan, 26 2015 @ 07:17 AM
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originally posted by: randomtangentsrme
Get off your high horse and accept like we have to do smells don't affect your health

Smells may affect the health of people that already have a health problem, like asthma.

Although that never happened to me, my brother was seriously affected by the smells of things like acrylic paint or acetone. I was very affected by cigarette smoke (now I am much less affected), not by the smell but by the smoke itself.



posted on Jan, 26 2015 @ 07:51 AM
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originally posted by: Mastronaut
I'll drop my 2cents as a smoker.

Is that you on your avatar?


(I know it's Manny Calavera)



posted on Jan, 26 2015 @ 08:10 AM
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originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: 3danimator2014

I have to go to work now - but when I return, we will have a serious discussion regarding the Constitution, the meaning of the Right of Peaceful Assembly, the Human Rights Code and the right to be free of harassment, the meaning of "spoiled identity.

And we will directly compare what is happening to smokers today and what happened to Jews (and smokers) in pre-war Germany.

We will also discuss a paper by Yale University that discusses directly how Anti-smoker fanatics are bypassing the democratic process and the negative impact on society.

If you seriously wish to debate - Read this link

digitalcommons.law.yale.edu...

We will leave aside all considerations of health or personal preference and deal only with the law!

Tired of Control Freaks


Sorry buddy...I'm not in the mood to argue/discuss with melodramatic drama queens today. Or anyone who likened smokers to jews in WW2....over and over again.



posted on Jan, 26 2015 @ 08:26 AM
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a reply to: ArMaP

I have a nephew who is like that and have met others. They just can't be around cigarette smoke because of their asthma. But I got a question for ya if you don't mind...

If you walk into a room that someone has been burning those pretty smelling candles in or into an elevator who has someone who is wearing perfume heavily, does it make you feel the same as the cigarette smoke makes you feel?? My sister couldn't even use those pretty smelling fabric softener sheets because of my nephew. And it wouldn't surprise me if it's the same with you. And if it is which would be preferable to you?

Having them ban smoking from everywhere?
Or having them cleanse out the chemicals that they are putting into all those pretty smelling consumer goods (as well as the cigarettes) since that is probably what you are reacting to!

If you want my opinion they are just using the smokers as the scapegoats so they don't have to look deeper because if they did look deeper it would cost too many companies way too much money!



posted on Jan, 26 2015 @ 08:29 AM
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originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: Mastronaut
I'll drop my 2cents as a smoker.

Is that you on your avatar?


(I know it's Manny Calavera)


I realized I have a smoking avatar just after I posted
It seemed to add credibility to my smoker status and I giggled a bit




posted on Jan, 26 2015 @ 08:33 AM
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a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Man I love your thought processes from what I have seen from some of your post. No sarcasm intended, you have done a fine job demonstrating the corroding of people liberties in today's modern western world.



posted on Jan, 26 2015 @ 09:57 AM
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a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

As a smoker I understand where the non smokers are coming from because Im not a total control freak like yourself who will not settle until everyone on this forum shares your views.

In my block of flats you are not allowed to smoke, this is fair enough as it smells like cr*p but someone on my floor still does it, we know which flat it is. You can smell it from 15 meters away (my door to theirs). It reeks and is insanely unpleasant. But, I still smoke, but I go stand outside. I make sure Im not near anyone (even more so -when out and about if a child and its family are walking up towards me I will stand out of the way with the cig as far from the child as possible), the smoking ban has been around for a few years now and you know what? I prefer pubs and clubs this way. I dont mind popping out for a quick smoke then dashing back in when someone has got the next round in.

Why should people be subjected to this over powering smell? But lets face it, your right and they are wrong. To go back a few pages:

No, smokers are not like Jewish people during WW2, we haven't been rounded up put into concentration camps and gassed or shipped off for manual labor against our will. Even comparing smokers to the holocaust shows how narrow minded you truly are in your world views. Smokers have been moved outside big deal. The idea of smoking ban in your own home would never truly come into effect as it would cost too much to police it.

Drop the high and mighty BS and stop trying to control people. All you do in your replies to date is twist peoples responses when they attempt to use rational thought and reasoning and retort with gibberish about how you feel as if this is your personal holocaust.

Its disrespectful and vile. Just get over yourself...


That said, not sure if really that narrow minded or if a troll..



posted on Jan, 26 2015 @ 10:33 AM
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originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
I am going to post a major news story that just appeared in a Canadian Newspaper in Ontario

Keep in mind that Ontario has the most draconian smoking ban - bar none

www.theglobeandmail.com...




The private home is one of the last places where Canadians can indiscriminately light up a cigarette without risking breaking the law. And a growing number of people would like that to change. Specifically, people who live in apartments, condominiums and other multiunit dwellings where one person’s cigarette smoke can easily invade another person’s home.


So now when exposure is down to nothing more than a molecular level, when it clearly can't be about health - are the control motives of anti-smokers now clear?

One helpful commenter even suggests that the children of smokers should be seized and put into a "safe orphanage" (and we have all seen how safe some orphanges are).

Is it time for non-smokers to stand up and help defend the rights of a hated minority? Or will you all fall under the hammer with us?

Tired of Control Freaks


The answer to our question is "never."

To quote C. S. Lewis:




Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.



posted on Jan, 26 2015 @ 11:58 AM
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a reply to: NavyDoc

I agree NavyDoc - these people will cut off their noses to spite their faces. They simply do not understand what is happening. They all moan and groan about their decreasing liberties and never to they understand that they cannot control others and expect themselves to remain untouched.

The other saying I like:



“The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog.” – Broadcast talk 6-11-35


C.K. Chesterton

www.chesterton.org...

Everyone is up in arms that I compared smokers to jews in pre-war Germany but not a single person has said where my comparison is inaccurate and not a single person wants to seriously debate it.

In the end, I have to conclude that my comparison is accurate.
Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Jan, 26 2015 @ 02:04 PM
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originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: ArMaP

I am sorry dear but asthma rates have increased over 800 % in lock-step with the decrease of smoking in the population.

If you are so sensitive to particulate that cigarette smoke can effect you through a concrete wall then you are probably going to die anyway!

Tired of Control Freaks


You may have a point on legislating things, but as an asthmatic who nearly died from it many times as a child, and one who even today starts to be affected by cigs near me within minutes, (eyes blurry) (throat feels like cold coming on), and one who actually smoked starting at 19 and quitting after many years, I have to say this.

[snip]

I agree with Poppcocked, beatings are in order, this can affect the child or anyone else as bad, you have no idea in the WORLD how much misery can be put on having this swirling in the air.

I sentence you to sitting in a car with the windows rolled up and exposed to 10 cigarettes smoked.

edit on 26/1/15 by masqua because: personal attack removed



posted on Jan, 26 2015 @ 02:13 PM
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a reply to: ParasuvO

That is right - make sure that its all about you and what you prefer. Nothing else matters

Just another asthma diva

So how come there so many asthma diva's around now that smoking bans have been implemented to "protect" you. Haven't you all stopped having those asthma attacks by now?

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Jan, 26 2015 @ 02:18 PM
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a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

oooh - sorry about that! In California, where comprehensive smoking bans have been in place since the mid-1990s, we have this:

discovermagazine.com...




In the past 10 years, I’ve had to put more kids on steroids than ever before, which terrifies me,” said Kevin Hamilton, a respiratory therapist and administrator for Clinica Sierra Vista, a string of medical centers throughout the Central Valley that cares for about 50,000 low-income youngsters every year. “It can be overwhelming with patients in every room on inhalers and nebulizers” — the heavy artillery of an asthmatic’s medicinal arsenal. “These kids never get well, and now we have a generation who are permanently damaged by their constant exposure to pollution,”


So what is the smoking that caused all those asthma attacks or air pollution. Looks like it was air pollution all along and smoking bans didn't help anyone at all!

Now how could those scientists have been so mistaken?



posted on Jan, 26 2015 @ 02:18 PM
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a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

oooh - sorry about that! In California, where comprehensive smoking bans have been in place since the mid-1990s, we have this:

discovermagazine.com...




In the past 10 years, I’ve had to put more kids on steroids than ever before, which terrifies me,” said Kevin Hamilton, a respiratory therapist and administrator for Clinica Sierra Vista, a string of medical centers throughout the Central Valley that cares for about 50,000 low-income youngsters every year. “It can be overwhelming with patients in every room on inhalers and nebulizers” — the heavy artillery of an asthmatic’s medicinal arsenal. “These kids never get well, and now we have a generation who are permanently damaged by their constant exposure to pollution,”


So what is the smoking that caused all those asthma attacks or air pollution. Looks like it was air pollution all along and smoking bans didn't help anyone at all!

Now how could those scientists have been so mistaken?



posted on Jan, 26 2015 @ 02:27 PM
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originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: NavyDoc

I agree NavyDoc - these people will cut off their noses to spite their faces. They simply do not understand what is happening. They all moan and groan about their decreasing liberties and never to they understand that they cannot control others and expect themselves to remain untouched.

The other saying I like:



“The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog.” – Broadcast talk 6-11-35


C.K. Chesterton

www.chesterton.org...

Everyone is up in arms that I compared smokers to jews in pre-war Germany but not a single person has said where my comparison is inaccurate and not a single person wants to seriously debate it.

In the end, I have to conclude that my comparison is accurate.
Tired of Control Freaks

Earlier I asked for a single example where smokers are discriminated against. Still waiting.



posted on Jan, 26 2015 @ 02:31 PM
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originally posted by: dawnstar
If you walk into a room that someone has been burning those pretty smelling candles in or into an elevator who has someone who is wearing perfume heavily, does it make you feel the same as the cigarette smoke makes you feel??

No, it's not the same.

Candles (either with or without perfume) affect me less than cigarette smoke, perfumes are only a nuisance, as I don't like artificial smells and am not affected by perfumes.


Or having them cleanse out the chemicals that they are putting into all those pretty smelling consumer goods (as well as the cigarettes) since that is probably what you are reacting to!

As that's not my case I don't really know what I would answer if it was.



If you want my opinion they are just using the smokers as the scapegoats so they don't have to look deeper because if they did look deeper it would cost too many companies way too much money!

That's possible, also because they know that most smokers never stop smoking and, because of that, are good and predictable guinea pigs, as long as they can get their dose of nicotine.



posted on Jan, 26 2015 @ 02:32 PM
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a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Did pollution got better or worse in that time?



posted on Jan, 26 2015 @ 02:36 PM
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So, what I can gather from this is that non-smokers have some otherworldly 6th sense that greatly imperils them when someone somewhere lights up a cigarette. This same 6th sense of course doesn't encompass all the air pollution from anything else, just cigarettes.

I'm beginning to think this is something similar to a pavlovian effect, where the mere knowledge of smoking causes you to feel bad, but being the the midst of a thousand vehicles pumping out fumes doesn't even register to you.

There's nothing wrong with wanting me to not smoke near you, I get that. I wouldn't. But it's getting to the point to where you're saying the fact that I exist is an insult to non-smokers. I wouldn't be surprised if in the future, some magical undocumented study comes up saying that smokers, even years after they quit, are somehow hurting everyone's health.

The important thing though, is that nonsmokers have someone they can deride and feel superior over, right?



posted on Jan, 26 2015 @ 02:37 PM
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originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: ArMaP

I have a nephew who is like that and have met others. They just can't be around cigarette smoke because of their asthma. But I got a question for ya if you don't mind...

If you walk into a room that someone has been burning those pretty smelling candles in or into an elevator who has someone who is wearing perfume heavily, does it make you feel the same as the cigarette smoke makes you feel?? My sister couldn't even use those pretty smelling fabric softener sheets because of my nephew. And it wouldn't surprise me if it's the same with you. And if it is which would be preferable to you?

Having them ban smoking from everywhere?
Or having them cleanse out the chemicals that they are putting into all those pretty smelling consumer goods (as well as the cigarettes) since that is probably what you are reacting to!

If you want my opinion they are just using the smokers as the scapegoats so they don't have to look deeper because if they did look deeper it would cost too many companies way too much money!



You know what really bugs me? Non-disabled Non-smokers who park in handicapped parking spaces. Non-smokers who can't take their carts back to the cart corral when shopping.

I am a disabled person that depends on a wheelchair when going out to do business. Those handicapped spaces aren't just because they are close to the store, they are made to have enough room to get disabled people in and out of wheelchairs without hitting other vehicles. Also, why do I have to wait to use the restroom when the handicapped stalls are being used by non-disabled people?

But let's legislate smokers because they are inconvenient, I say that people who park in handicapped spots, used handicapped stalls, and can't take their carts back to the corrals should be arrested, because they are never caught and fined.

Also, if a person weighs 700 pounds, you probably should lose weight because people like me who depend on a scooter to get around the store, I can't find one because you took them all and then when you are through, left your nasty sweat marks on them that I have to sit on. I weigh only 168 pounds, but why do I have to wait for you when you obviously didn't ride a wheelchair into the store.







 
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