Why is Charlie Hebdo OK, but not Dieudonné ?

a reply to: 3danimator2014
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I think the whole situation is getting gorgeously surreal.
Since Jean-Marie LePen is now officially retired from the french political scene, the front stage duties are inccumbant to his daughter Marine.
And she receveid recently the following comments from the CRIF (French Jewish Association) leader Roger Cuckierman :

CRIF head Roger Cukierman said National Front chief can’t be ‘faulted personally’ for anti-Semitism

Now yesterday I watched on the french TV the speech of François Hollande taking place at the CRIF annual dinner. Please note that it's not every single association in France who has the opportunity to receive a Presidential visit ... And to have the President doing a speech aired live on TV.

France must treat online “anti-Semitism” like child pornography, president says

And it's here IMO that things will become very funny : how are the frenchs going to define more specificaly - or should I say - introduce the concept of Jewish individual via the notion of anti-semitism as part of the french republican laws ? As if the Jews and the Israelis themselves had an easy job defining ... themselves.

originally posted by: Lysergic
I see the french are still perfecting the art of Stand Up.

Lol only post that truly gets it.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

There is also in France ATM a growing polemic about the recent comments of Roland Dumas who dared to criticize Manuels Valls as of the video I posted on page 4.
Guess what ? He received, in a second, a bunch load of anti-semitic labels on the forehead...
For those who speak French the video is here as well :

People should realise that if they silence constructive criticism because it just dares to sound too unpleasant, opposition can only be left with violence. The restriction of the freedom of speech - through humour as well of course - can only lead to further violence as the sole mean of expression.



Where is the video of the Dieudonné show I linked gone ?

High Court lifts ban on Liberman’s Charlie Hebdo stunt

So now the far-right pro-zionist Israeli party Yisrael Beytenu, is distributing free copies of Charlie Hebdo as electoral tracts ...

Nicolas Sarkozy widely disliked due to Jewish roots, ex-France FM says

Jean Sarkozy married a jewish wife and converted





There are about 60 franco-isralis deputies at the french assembly.
One of them, Meyer Habib quoted recently :

Israel is the survival certificate for the Jews ...

Zionism should not become a solution in troubled times but rather a deliberate political choice...

Source and video : Agoravox

No surprise : defending the same point-of-view as an Israeli artist is also very problematic.

The reality is in europe from the uk to france to italy, we now have the same media monopolies operating that have operated in the USA since the late 50s and that media is agenda based......homosexuality, feminism ,capitalism ,consumerism, ridicule of christianity using every thing from comedy to science to undermine it, the attack led by the american media on the catholic church starting in the early 90s , the downright two pronged attack on islam with both hot and cold wars propaganda and bombs, killing millions yet we are brainwashed to feel like the victims, the propaganda now starting with russia using the shill politians in europe to prod and poke putin all because he banned what he called gay propaganda aimed at the young which was 6 months before the manufactured ukraine coup.....america can bomb a country if its got no defense, with countries in europe its more insidious using the media to change and mold a country without the need to invade, for some reason americas chosen people seem to be jews when it comes to hollywood or sky tv........its a clever game they get to control reality with only the shills that are brainwashed enough to go along with whatever political correctness is useful for that moment allowed to appear......Dieudonné can only play if he plays by the rules, and nobody can really mention the elephant in the room but anyone willing to look cant miss it... its huge!

a reply to: surfin4



And who is likely to 'control' the medias ?
There is always through art or humor a place for criticism, and when it comes from the Jews themselves, there is no one to blame with antisemitism.



Are you afraid by topic or what ?
I'll keep posting about zionist presence in France in this topic. Hope this won't the offucate the OPster.

Other ATS threads on similar subjects :

Defeat ISIS using humorous tactics

Neighbor from h*ll puts up Swastika display; Claims it's 'Art'

Jewish journalist gets hate on videotape as he strolls streets of Paris

Circumcised men may soon be able to REGROW their foreskin!

Cartoonist Art Spiegelman supported Dieudonné in an interwiew to German newspaper 'Die Welt' : source

Article translation (automatic)

When Art Spiegelman drew a comic book end of the 80s about the story of two Holocaust survivors - his parents - , which was a taboo. The German company responded distraught. It was not really, the Bible as a comic. But the sacred narrative of Purified perpetrators descendants, a story of crime and punishment and the grace of late birth - which should be sacrosanct.

Meanwhile applies Spiegelman's "Maus" as a classic and is - the terrible fate of all classics - also used in schools; so it goes provocateurs, at least in open societies. Whether one can study the Muhammad caricatures of "Jyllands-Posten" and "Charlie Hebdo" or the "Satanic Verses" by Salman Rushdie in the classroom and quietly discuss the pros and con of such provocations one day?

Spiegelman in any case, has commented in an interview with "time" disappointed by the print media of his American home, which - whether from fear of Muslims, or it was out of consideration for their feelings (the limits are so blurry) - refused to reprint the "Charlie Hebdo " cartoons.

Spiegelman would not be Spiegelman if he would stay on that defense of the right to insult Islam. In the same interview he complains, begun in France proceedings against the anti-Semitic comedian Dieudonné and the 70 other citizens who are "defense of terrorism" is accused. If anything, so Spiegelman, had the right to insult and offend Become apply to everyone.

Too, he criticized the existing in Germany and most countries of the European Union ban on Holocaust denial: "My heart and my head hit because different directions it in my heart, I think. '. # you, you bastard Nazi #' But if you put Holocaust denial punishable, this attitude does not disappear yes There are still the same crazy fascists, just waiting to finally be able to say. 'At that time, only eight people were killed, and the furnaces were to bake bread! '"

Exactly. Whoever denies the Holocaust, Nazi bastard is a # whether he was David Irving or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad called. Who has honor in your body, such people will be neither the hand nor their views a platform. But he will not do them the favor to ban their views - as if they were so dangerous that you otherwise do not consider them.

It is absurd that you can not deny the Holocaust, but probably the genocide of Saxony, Prussia, Tasmanen, Hereros, Armenians, or Tutsi; the massacre of the Croatian Ustasha of the Serbs or the Serbs in the Bosniaks; the mass murders of Stalin, especially in Ukraine, Mao and Pol Pot and so on and so forth.

Yes, the denial of the Holocaust insulted not only the dwindling band of survivors; they defiled her memory and is also a slap in the face of what is called a British judge in the case of David Irving's the "sanctity of the facts." And all this should be covered by the freedom of expression. Why they would otherwise be there? Just make sure that what is true, good and beautiful can be said?

Apparently. For in the EU soon is not only the denial of the Holocaust prohibited, but the "public condoning, denying or trivializing of massive crime of genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes" with one to three years in prison to be punished. Must Have! What every historian or journalist who deals with such themes, runs the risk of becoming a law-breaker, when he "trivialized".

The same law will make the spread "of tracts, pictures or other material" under punishment, "against a group of persons or a member of such a group defined by race, color, religion, descent or national or ethnic origin directed" itself. Thus, the prohibition of religious criticism in Europe is reintroduced. In practice, this will result in a ban Islam-criticism.

Of course, this is a logical consequence of the ban on Holocaust denial. As said Art Spiegelman: "You have to 'Charlie Hebdo' as a magazine that offended in any direction, just like I do, this is the only position that somehow makes sense if you start to a group to be cautious and.. to take into consideration and compared with other not, then it's over with freedom of expression. "

No 'Je suis Charlie' effect for french cartoonist ...



Cartoonist Zeon got arrested yesterday morning for antisemitism ...
Article in french and picture source : here

a reply to: zazzafrazz

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
a reply to: Lysergic

Lol only post that truly gets it.

For me it's this one by YouNeedMe:

Norman Finkelstein, american/jewish poet and writter : "Israel is the main cause of antisemitism is the world"

This hypocrisy is not new to the world, it exists in the US and UK too, and probably in various other countries.

Take a look at the US, where a Muslim is considered dangerous for expressing an opinion which might be considered offensive, but a Christian can say exactly the same things and not even get a visit from the local PD. Last year a Christian preacher put a sign up outside his church calling for the stoning of gay people - not even a visit from the police. If he were a Muslim he would have had the FBI pounding on his door.

Just last week a radical Christian in California posted a bill (I don't know if that's the term) which directly outlined the mass murder of LGBT people, literally calling for public executions. Yet again, no visit from any police department.

The Republicans constantly scream and rant about the "gay agenda" supposedly "silencing them" when they attack other people, and they have the balls to invoke their Constitutional rights to attack others openly while then claiming that this right should be reserved for them and them alone, and anyone else using that right to argue back is part of some "conspiracy".

France is facing a problem, no doubt about it. They seem to be swinging the pendulum too far in one direction here, simply because of the nature of the threat. They are seeing considerable antisemitism in the country (primarily thanks to the actions of the Israeli state) and they are applying their laws unfairly in some instances because of that unbalanced threat.

However, I would say take a look at the nature of the things people are being arrested for, and whether they equate. That cartoon someone just posted is propaganda, it's not the same as the Hebdo cartoons - which mocked every religion, BTW.

The laws definitely need to be refined and balanced, but there is a MASSIVE difference between mocking a religion and a religious figure through humor, and inciting hatred through propaganda.

a reply to: Rocker2013

I am not fluent in German enough to try myself at a complete translation of the interview of Art Spieglman, but it's worth considering too in this context.
Thanks to my home location, I have a clear view on what for a brainwashing the Frenchs are submitted to atm. On whatever channel, you can't hardly spend an hour watching french TV without having to deal with some whinning propaganda about the holocaust.
While Dieudonné can't even have his youtube channel anymore ...

The Jews should not complain about being targeted physically if they happen through propaganda to anihilate every form of constructive criticism. As if the Palestinians had some other means of expression ...
Ironically, the kingdom of Belgium becomes therefore a much more comfortable place for free speech than the French republic. Watch Belgian TV, you'll witness things you consider otherwise impossible elsewhere : how about the Israeli ambassador shot down in flames by the anchorwoman ? You won't see that in France any time soon I guess. I just hope for the Frenchs I'm wrong.

The latest polemic in France is this one. If you look at involved people, let's say it's very kosher.

The laws definitely need to be refined and balanced, but there is a MASSIVE difference between mocking a religion and a religious figure through humor, and inciting hatred through propaganda.

Per definition, you can't regulate freedom of speech if you want it to remain free.
And calling after 'antisemitism' and respect each time someone turns out to be critical towards people that consider themselves superior for ethnical/religious reasons is a dangerous way to enforce the ostrich policy.

By mentioning Art Spiegelman and his will to be able to deny the Holocaust ... Don't worry, I'm no holocaust denier. I understand the historical implications of that crime and I try to apply some logic to it.

Sorry if my reply sounds harsh to your post, I understand that hypocrisy is somehow - and unfortunattely - universal but, I'm fed up with it. I know also that if I point constantly the finger at the same guys I will put myself offside. If they don't mind my finger, my guess is that someone will slap them the whole hand in the face anytime soon. And this person, will be the Jews themselves.

originally posted by: TheLaughingGod
a reply to: TheTengriist

No, no, no. Jews and muslims don't act alike, I don't know of any Jewish ghetto enclaves where I'd be attacked for being white.

Or female? I submit...

Israeli police held back thousands of ultra-conservative Jews who tried to drive liberal women worshippers from Judaism's sacred Western Wall on Friday, marking a shift in the authorities' handling of a long-running religious schism. Ultra-Orthodox protesters dressed in traditional dark clothing threw chairs and water at the women, then later stoned their buses. Two policemen were hurt. Link

Lots of similar examples, which is all to say that your bias is all too apparent.

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

Israelis have been severely brainwashed for their whole lives(not unlike Muslims), they're radicalized and in a league of their own, especially the ultra orthodox ones. They're also soaking in Middle Eastern cultural norms(one could argue they're reverting back to it), I don't hear of any European Jews stoning police, European Muslims do it on a daily basis all across continental Europe.

I was mainly referring to the Jewish diaspora in the West.

originally posted by: TheLaughingGod
I was mainly referring to the Jewish diaspora in the West.

Ever hear of Meir Kahane or the JDL ?

a reply to: TheLaughingGod
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

You need to clarify about Ultra-Othodox Jews ...
Ultra-Orthodox Zionists OR Naturei Karta ?

With the exeption of ISIS and Boko Haram, Muslim do not conduct kidnappings :
Over 280 Palestinians Kidnapped by Israeli Forces in February

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

Yes and there are far right Nazi groups too. These small groups do not define their people any more than Raelians define Japanese people, their fringe positions aren't even trends. I'm talking about clear cultural trends and characteristics that permeate a specific culture or ethnicity. You don't walk into a Jewish neighbourhood in the US or Australia expecting to be attacked by Jewish goons. You can walk into any Muslim enclave in Europe and expect increased potential for trouble, you can watch them repeatedly attack authorities trespassing on "their turf" and generally acting like they're a country within a country flamboyantly flouting the laws.