It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

lawmakers declare ‘all-out assault’ on marriage for same-sex and atheist couples in Oklahoma

page: 6
35
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 25 2015 @ 01:22 PM
link   

originally posted by: TechUnique
You can disagree with the opinion all you want but at the end of the day it says all of this in the new testament. You can disagree that the new testament is Gods word if you want to, you are more than free to do so. It doesn't mean that you are right though.


Regardless of who thinks they are right, the fundamental core of Human rights means we are all equal, and you do not get to dictate what another group of people is permitted to do, especially when it has absolutely no bearing on your existence.




posted on Jan, 25 2015 @ 01:24 PM
link   

originally posted by: TechUnique


Edit to add: Churches have been as good as forced to marry gay couples already. A massive lawsuit and threat of bankruptcy is pretty close to forcing someone wouldn't you agree?


Please back that up with a link. Otherwise you are just lying and making up stuff to support your ideology.

Here's the question....Where, What and when have Christian churches been forced to marry homosexuals. Show us the lawsuit.

"as good as" won't cut it.

Have you read this....especially #2!

www.abovetopsecret.com...


edit on 25-1-2015 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2015 @ 01:27 PM
link   
a reply to: Rocker2013

'EVEN THE CATHOLIC FAITH ALLOWS GAY MARRIAGE'

Yeah well that's hardly a surprise considering that the catholic church has been an apostate church from its very conception.

Look I understand the equality vibe. I dig it, I really do. But 2 men and/or 2 women are not equal to a man and a woman. They are simply not the same thing. I AM NOT SAYING THEY ARE WORTH LESS. But they are NOT the same?

Marriage is for a man and a woman?

So how can you expect exactly the same rules to apply in a tradition that has been about for centuries?

Believe it or not Christians have rules in their faith also. One of those rules (if they follow the Bible properly) is that homosexuality is a sin and that sex and marriage is reserved for a man and a woman.

If a pastor chooses to ignore this then they are blaspheming God. The very title of marriage when applied to a same sex couple is blaspheming God. If an atheist couple gets married as Christians in a Christian church it is blaspheming God.

I'm not picking on Gays here. I'm defending Christians from a clear agenda. A lot of you don't notice the agenda because the agenda SUITS you. If you are anti God and an atheist then the push for Gay marriage is good for you guys because it 'gets one up' on the Christians so to speak.



posted on Jan, 25 2015 @ 01:28 PM
link   
a reply to: TechUnique


So you agree that an alternative solution could be creating another 'Equal status' in the eyes of the state that gives gay couples all the same rights legally but with a different title?


I've been saying that for years. You could call it rainbow happy unicorn pacts for all I cared. As long as the list of rights were the same. And I'm a gay man FTR.

BUT, like any organization that gains popularity, the gay rights movement has been hijacked by extremists, who won't meet conservatives in the middle. That's true for the other side as well I suppose.


Churches have been as good as forced to marry gay couples already. A massive lawsuit and threat of bankruptcy is pretty close to forcing someone wouldn't you agree?


I'm not aware of any such stories, would love to read them and agree with you, that it's ridiculous to do that.

No church, regardless of the law, should have to marry homosexuals if they choose not to. The state can issue the license, provide all the things they need. You're just pissing on Christians for no reason if you do it any other way.

EVEN if you called it marriage in the end.

~Tenth



posted on Jan, 25 2015 @ 01:29 PM
link   

originally posted by: TechUnique
a reply to: Sremmos80

Christian Marriage is Christian Marriage.


False.
Christianity does not own a patent on marriage, it never has and it never will.

This is a common delusion the Christians like to put out there, claiming that marriage is owned exclusively by them and no one else. They call this "traditional" marriage, but this notion always ignores all marriage ceremonies before and after the height of their cult, and always ignores all the marriages of other faiths and social groups.

Marriage (in the traditional sense, as far back as we can go, regardless of faith, claims, beliefs or delusions) is the celebration and recognition of commitment between people who care for each other. That's all, that's it, there is no ownership, no specific morality, no specific time we should be looking to and steadfastly hold as the ONLY POSSIBLE OPTION.

Man, the utter arrogance and complete ignorance of the religiously delusional is infuriating!



posted on Jan, 25 2015 @ 01:29 PM
link   
a reply to: TechUnique

When they stop remarrying divorced people, get back to me about all this blasphemy stuff.

This is more about the church doing it, last time I checked gay people don't all want to get married in a church so not sure what any of that has to do with this.
This is just about their right to life liberty and happiness that is a god given right

And yes, gay people do need to get married, it provides VAST benefits in the current system we live in.
They don't need to call it anything different, that is absurd.

Christians don't own the concept of marriage, they need to get over that.

Last time I checked jesus was about loving all people, I bet he would of happily married gay people

edit on thSun, 25 Jan 2015 13:30:05 -0600America/Chicago120150580 by Sremmos80 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2015 @ 01:31 PM
link   
Better than that, I'll give you a link to where you will find loads of links. It will take you to a Google search request with the simple term 'Church forced to marry gay couple'. Here.

If you can be bothered to do some reading you would agree that there is something going on here that is not quite right. The forcing of anyone to do anything is wrong from the get go, in my opinion.

But I'm sure people will disagree with me. Thing is, I can't force you to agree with me, neither would I want to. Some churches are being as good as FORCED to do something they disagree with.



posted on Jan, 25 2015 @ 01:34 PM
link   
a reply to: TechUnique

I hate to be nit-picky, but none of those stories are the USA.

These are all European nations, who are, historically, far more willing to screw around with the church than America has.

~Tenth



posted on Jan, 25 2015 @ 01:36 PM
link   
a reply to: TechUnique

Marriage doesn't belong to the church, it never has, has existed in countless cultures throughout the world everywhere. Marriages also do not need to be done through your precious church. There are many non church related ways to get legally married.

I don't care who your church does and does not marry. However, that does not mean you or your church has the right to define marriage for anyone who chooses to get married in the other ways and does not follow your religion. This country practices the separation of church and state, which means, take your religion and keep it where it belongs, between you, your God, and your churches and out of federal law.



posted on Jan, 25 2015 @ 01:38 PM
link   
a reply to: tothetenthpower

I appreciate your response!


But lawyers working at the CofE’s Church House headquarters have said equality laws will mean churches have to treat gay couples asking for a wedding in the same way they treat heterosexual couples.


This article applies to the UK where I live but I'm sure you can see where it's going. It's from 2012. I've read a few cases of lawsuits in America because of refusal to marry same sex couples.

I don't really have time to be trawling through loads of links at the moment but take a look here man.
Sea rch.



posted on Jan, 25 2015 @ 01:40 PM
link   
USA

More USA

It's definitely starting to happen.



posted on Jan, 25 2015 @ 01:40 PM
link   
a reply to: TechUnique

Yeah ok. But have any of those lawsuits actually panned out?

Have any of the same sex marriage laws, actually ended up making it so that a church needed to marry homosexuals against their will?

That's the crux of the issue, because if not, then the argument presented, is this one:



And that's not really a good excuse right? I understand the fear and rightfully so, if Churches were being forced to marry homosexuals, but it seems to me, that some crazy folk are trying and being denied that right by the courts.

~Tenth



posted on Jan, 25 2015 @ 01:41 PM
link   

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: TechUnique

When they stop remarrying divorced people, get back to me about all this blasphemy stuff.

This is more about the church doing it, last time I checked gay people don't all want to get married in a church so not sure what any of that has to do with this.
This is just about their right to life liberty and happiness that is a god given right

And yes, gay people do need to get married, it provides VAST benefits in the current system we live in.
They don't need to call it anything different, that is absurd.

Christians don't own the concept of marriage, they need to get over that.

Last time I checked jesus was about loving all people, I bet he would of happily married gay people


Jesus would not have 'Happily married gay people'.

Don't be ridiculous.



posted on Jan, 25 2015 @ 01:43 PM
link   
a reply to: tothetenthpower

Interesting! Well I don't know to be perfectly honest with you but at least we can both agree there is something to consider that goes above the usual 'line of arguing' so to speak.



posted on Jan, 25 2015 @ 01:43 PM
link   
a reply to: TechUnique

So your source says:


Technically, this ministry involves a wedding chapel and not a church. Although listed as a “religious corporation” it is not a non-profit organization. This opens a window for prosecution that churches (supposedly) are immune from.


Actual churches would be immune to this. They are a non profit organization, they are NOT allowed to take a stand like that, without loosing their status and having to pay taxes.

Any non profit would be forced to act accordingly in the face of current legislation. if they don't want to be bothered, drop the non profit status, and pay your taxes.

~Tenth



posted on Jan, 25 2015 @ 01:47 PM
link   

originally posted by: TechUnique
Look I understand the equality vibe. I dig it, I really do. But 2 men and/or 2 women are not equal to a man and a woman. They are simply not the same thing. I AM NOT SAYING THEY ARE WORTH LESS. But they are NOT the same?


Ah, this is delicious! lol

So, the argument is all about difference?
So would you also say that a blond person should not be permitted to marry a brown haired person?
How about blue eyes and green?
How about... a black person marrying a white person?

Have a think about that for a moment.


originally posted by: TechUnique
So how can you expect exactly the same rules to apply in a tradition that has been about for centuries?


Because tradition does not mean this should apply to all.
If you claim that the traditions of one group of people should instantly apply to all, how about Muslim "traditional belief" that women should not have the right to vote?

Do you agree that this is okay? That it's okay for women of certain extreme Islamic countries to be stoned to death for being raped, because it's "tradition"?


originally posted by: TechUnique
Believe it or not Christians have rules in their faith also. One of those rules (if they follow the Bible properly) is that homosexuality is a sin and that sex and marriage is reserved for a man and a woman.


That's fine, believe what you want. But lets clarify this once more... I am not a Christian, I do not follow the same delusions, therefore it's none of your business whether you think I'm a sinner and should not be married to my partner. You don't get to decide that, your faith is not the "default" position for an entire society!

What startles me the most is that so many Christians cannot see how similar they are to the Taliban in their belief of their imagined right to control the lives of others.


originally posted by: TechUnique
If a pastor chooses to ignore this then they are blaspheming God. The very title of marriage when applied to a same sex couple is blaspheming God. If an atheist couple gets married as Christians in a Christian church it is blaspheming God.


No Christian is "forced" into doing anything against their will. This is a nonsense. All legislation that has passed to allow same-sex marriage has also allowed for those who don't want to perform them to opt out of doing so.
edit on 25-1-2015 by Rocker2013 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2015 @ 01:52 PM
link   

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: TechUnique

When they stop remarrying divorced people, get back to me about all this blasphemy stuff.

This is more about the church doing it, last time I checked gay people don't all want to get married in a church so not sure what any of that has to do with this.
This is just about their right to life liberty and happiness that is a god given right

And yes, gay people do need to get married, it provides VAST benefits in the current system we live in.
They don't need to call it anything different, that is absurd.

Christians don't own the concept of marriage, they need to get over that.

Last time I checked jesus was about loving all people, I bet he would of happily married gay people


Jesus would not have 'Happily married gay people'.

Don't be ridiculous.


Do you have a hot line to Christ?
Please, oh wise one, what does Jesus think of people wanting to control others and dictate what rights and freedoms they should have?

If we go on all available evidence, Jesus was a cool guy, more like a hippy than a conservative. FFS he wore robes and hung out drinking wine with groups of strangers debating the soul, nature, being good and kind to others... I met a guy just like at at a rock festival last year, stoned out of his tiny mind but enlightened beyond any conservative I have ever heard open their gaping maw and spew ignorant tripe.



posted on Jan, 25 2015 @ 01:56 PM
link   
a reply to: tothetenthpower

I guess we'll have to see how it plays out in the coming years. You can be sure whatever happens it will be on the news. I'm probably overreacting to say that Churches are being forced right now, but the way things are going it looks as though we are heading that way.

The equality movement although Good in nature, is being hijacked in order to carry out agendas. You see it all the time with race, sexuality, religion. In the name of Freedom, we now have police states. The example may seem extreme but there's reason to believe that the women's rights movement was allowed to happen because it was a good front to break up the family model and create more tax payers.
edit on 26/10/2010 by TechUnique because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2015 @ 02:01 PM
link   

originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: TechUnique

When they stop remarrying divorced people, get back to me about all this blasphemy stuff.

This is more about the church doing it, last time I checked gay people don't all want to get married in a church so not sure what any of that has to do with this.
This is just about their right to life liberty and happiness that is a god given right

And yes, gay people do need to get married, it provides VAST benefits in the current system we live in.
They don't need to call it anything different, that is absurd.

Christians don't own the concept of marriage, they need to get over that.

Last time I checked jesus was about loving all people, I bet he would of happily married gay people


Jesus would not have 'Happily married gay people'.

Don't be ridiculous.


Do you have a hot line to Christ?
Please, oh wise one, what does Jesus think of people wanting to control others and dictate what rights and freedoms they should have?

If we go on all available evidence, Jesus was a cool guy, more like a hippy than a conservative. FFS he wore robes and hung out drinking wine with groups of strangers debating the soul, nature, being good and kind to others... I met a guy just like at at a rock festival last year, stoned out of his tiny mind but enlightened beyond any conservative I have ever heard open their gaping maw and spew ignorant tripe.


Jesus Christ is the Son of God. God made it pretty clear he doesn't like homosexuality. Go figure.. and ignorance? I'm laughing right now at your incredible comment.

Do I have a hotline to God? Yeah it's called prayer. But I don't need to use it to know that Jesus wouldn't marry a Gay couple because that is made pretty clear in the Bible. (If you read it.)

And no, it doesn't clearly state 'Jesus would not marry Gay people' in the Bible but you can put 2 and 2 together very easily if you know anything about Christianity whatsoever. Ever heard of Sodom and Gomorah?

Yeah that didn't turn out too well.

So no, I doubt Jesus Christ would even entertain the question let alone do it. Jesus Christ isn't the happy clappy pushover that happy clappy Christians would have you believe. He is the son of God and God doesn't appreciate it when we defile his creation by sodomizing each other.

Sorry if that offends you but please point out where I am being hateful before you accuse me of doing so. I am not hateful. I just respect God enough to stand up for his word, even in the face of adversity.
edit on 26/10/2010 by TechUnique because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2015 @ 02:02 PM
link   

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: TechUnique

So your source says:


Technically, this ministry involves a wedding chapel and not a church. Although listed as a “religious corporation” it is not a non-profit organization. This opens a window for prosecution that churches (supposedly) are immune from.


Actual churches would be immune to this. They are a non profit organization, they are NOT allowed to take a stand like that, without loosing their status and having to pay taxes.

Any non profit would be forced to act accordingly in the face of current legislation. if they don't want to be bothered, drop the non profit status, and pay your taxes.

~Tenth


Tenth you misread that.

They were not a non-profit in other words they were a business a business like any other that can't determine who the public is since then they have incorporated as a non-profit and are now exempt. So you got it backwards.

It is my understanding that right now they are listed as a religious non-profit chapel and are immune to prosecution for denying same-sex marriages or any marriages the disagree with.



new topics

top topics



 
35
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join