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Ukraine crisis: Rockets 'kill 20' in Mariupol

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posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 07:44 AM
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originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: sosobad
Personally if I was in the middle of a civil war you bet your last nickel I would be armed, and I might not have an interest in the fighting at all.


What pro-Russians here are completely ignoring is the fact that even if there are American of British people there involved with the Ukrainian army, this is entirely acceptable and actually expected, given that Ukraine is a friend of our nations and it is currently being invaded by Russia.

I do not believe this video is anything but Russian propaganda, personally. Everything about it reeks to high heaven.

1. The man's accent is neither American nor British, it seems to be a strange amalgamation of both - indicating someone mimicking what they think is American.

2. His voice is miraculously louder and clearer than any other voice in that video, even though he is looking away from the mic, and even though he has his hand in front of his face, and even though he is moving quickly after the shock of an attack. Why is everyone else so quiet when the mic is directly in their face, compared to him being so loud and audible?

3. Is she a Ukrainian reporter? If so, why the hell would they release this to the Russian media?

4. Is she a Russian journalist? If so, why the hell did she seem completely disinterested in the fact that she had just heard a foreign language spoken by someone in military uniform?

5. Either way, this journalist would have jumped on the fact that she had just heard a foreign language spoken by someone in uniform. If she's pro-Russian she would have at least been talking about the fact, and if she's Ukrainian (which I think is most plausible) she would not have wanted this out there to support Russian propaganda efforts.

The problem here is that all the pro-Russian's on ATS instantly grab anything that goes in their favour, while claiming that anything opposing their belief is propaganda. They seem to think only one side engages in this, when intelligent people here are able to look at this objectively and critically, analytically looking at the plausible and implausible.

Even if the guy is American or English, none of this changes anything. It doesn't prove that this one guy is the "massive Western backing of a war", and it certainly doesn't prove that Putin has any right to force his way into another nation using proxies.




posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 07:51 AM
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originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: Rocker2013
I think I missed the part where internet sleuths located someone and claimed he is the person depicted...

Hmm, lets see... how the hell did anyone find out any information about a man they cannot see, in a video that's obviously dubbed, and then track him down to a social media account?

Man, this reeks of so much propaganda I don't even know where to start! At least the US does propaganda properly, it seems the pro-Russian propaganda attempting to imply random "foreigners" are in Ukraine (which in itself is nothing, considering they haven't invaded and Russia has invaded! lol) is concocted by amateurs, and people are still swallowing it


If this tells me anything it's that the pro-Russians are willing to buy anything they are told when it goes in their favour, even when it's blatantly stupid to the rest of us.


Where is your proof this is obviously dubbed? You have been saying it for pages but have yet to back it up a single time, do you the original recording?


See my second post on this.

I do have experience in audio, and it's clear to me that the audio levels are different throughout the video. He is heard crisp and clearly (in some bizarre concoction of English and American) with a mic away from his face, while he is turning his head away, while his hand is blocking it, and while he's moving forward at pace having experienced a shock.

Compare this to all other voices in the video, which all sound muffled to an extent, even when the mic is right in their face, with nothing blocking it, with no movement...

A child can see that this has been altered. But I don't expect the pro-Russians here to accept anything other than the nonsense line they want to believe supporting a pathetic opinion that somehow, even if real and genuine, this one man constitutes some kind of "evil Western" involvement.

Lets get this clear... even if this guy is British or American, it means nothing at all. Ukraine is our friend, and just as Putin says there are "volunteer" Russians in Ukraine, why the hell can't there be volunteer Brits or Americans there too, ACTUALLY INVITED by the military, government and people of Ukraine (as opposed to being an invading force fighting to steal land from the people who actually live there).

How come it's perfectly fine for Putin to say there are "volunteer" Russian soldiers in Ukraine, but it's something insidious if there are volunteers from other countries supporting Ukraine?

HYPOCRITE MUCH?



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 07:55 AM
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a reply to: Rocker2013




How come it's perfectly fine for Putin to say there are "volunteer" Russian soldiers in Ukraine, but it's something insidious if there are volunteers from other countries supporting Ukraine?


It is funny when they say it's fine with Russia sending fighters there, but anyone helping Ukraine is a bad thing.

And yes you hit it on the nose with the Hypocritical posts that come from many of the pro Russian backers concerning this conflict.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 08:08 AM
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Ok rocker your a liar

Russia has not invaded Ukraine if they have done so there wouldn't be a Ukraine army standing

So come on,when did Russia suddenly invaded them?

Was it in between you typing that sentence and me replying?

I know the last time a government decided to kill Russians for fun the Russians sends their boys into Georgia and pushed them back

So come on,you and a few on this site always says Russia has invaded Ukraine can you explain when they did this

Thank you


Btw blind patriots it's pro truth not pro Russian,if your caught lying you will be found out



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 08:17 AM
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originally posted by: Whereismypassword
Ok rocker your a liar

Russia has not invaded Ukraine if they have done so there wouldn't be a Ukraine army standing

So come on,when did Russia suddenly invaded them?

Was it in between you typing that sentence and me replying?

I know the last time a government decided to kill Russians for fun the Russians sends their boys into Georgia and pushed them back

So come on,you and a few on this site always says Russia has invaded Ukraine can you explain when they did this

Thank you


Btw blind patriots it's pro truth not pro Russian,if your caught lying you will be found out
Well one: Russia DID invade Ukraine. They currently occupy Ukraine's Crimea Peninsula. Which is sovereign Ukraine territory. What happened in Crimea is the definition of an invasion. So, yeah. Oh, and don't try to use that "Russian Military Base is there" excuse. If the U.S. Suddenly declared that Okinawa, Japan was U.S. land because there's a Military Base there, it would be called an invasion.

Two: I guess all the photo evidence of insignia laden soldiers, Russian military hardware and and weapons, and several Russian military (current and former) straight up SAYING that yes they are in Ukraine isn't enough. If it doesn't come from Putin's mouth it's all just propaganda and lies, isn't it? And don't say they "volunteered". "voluntold" is more accurate.

Remove the blinders. Nobody's hands are clean in this situation but suggesting Putin is somehow some benevolent savior is patently wrong, and bordering on insane.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 08:18 AM
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originally posted by: Whereismypassword

Ok rocker your a liar


Actually no he is not a liar.




originally posted by: Whereismypassword
Russia has not invaded Ukraine if they have done so there wouldn't be a Ukraine army standing

Russia has in fact invaded Ukraine and are currently illegally occupying Crimea. This has been established and accepted by the world with the exception of several nations who share Putins love of oppressing his people.




originally posted by: Whereismypassword
So come on,when did Russia suddenly invaded them?

Russia sent Russian military forces into crimea without insignias and secured the region PRIOR to any vote taking place. Either to secede from Ukraine or join the USSR.. err Russia.

Armed troops from a foreign nation seizing Crimea = armed invasion.






originally posted by: Whereismypassword
I know the last time a government decided to kill Russians for fun the Russians sends their boys into Georgia and pushed them back

Another prime example of Russia interfering in the internal matters of former SSR's. Since these nations were occupied by the NAzis, and then the USSR, one cannot blame them for running as fast and as far away from Russia as they could.





originally posted by: Whereismypassword
So come on,you and a few on this site always says Russia has invaded Ukraine can you explain when they did this

Thank you


We have many times... You guys ignore it even though its been factually proven.

May I suggest more reading and comprehension on your part to answer the questions pro Russians constantly recycle in these threads.


originally posted by: Whereismypassword
Btw blind patriots it's pro truth not pro Russian,if your caught lying you will be found out

No its pro Russian.. Not only is it pro Russian its Russian propaganda.
edit on 27-1-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 08:19 AM
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a reply to: Whereismypassword

Did you forget the active duty Russian soldiers that were captured on Ukrainian soil? Or what about the many Russian civilians that claim they have loved ones who have died in Ukraine?

Oh right. Those captured soldiers were just lost and those dead soldiers died in training exercises. Now that I think about it I don't know why anyone's worried about Russia. With a military this inept they'll probably just end up beating themselves.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 08:32 AM
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You two are lying ,Crimea held an election and chose Russia instead of Ukraine


So Crimea a river and come back with the truth next time

So as I have explained there was an official election that was monitored can you please stop calling that
A Russian invasion

Wasn't an invasion I would call Afganistan and Iraq an invasion how on earth can you suggest they invaded Crimea when they were allowed troops there anyway

And the troops seen on the streets during the election was to stop the mad murdering racist bastards from the Ukraine government and it's dirty little secret of far right rat faced storm troopers with guns from spilling blood in Crimea

Pro truth guys,not pro Russian -please stop lying



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 08:36 AM
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a reply to: Whereismypassword

Funny I never mentioned Crimea. I was referring to what is currently going on in eastern Ukraine. Although since you brought it up... If the Crimea vote was so legitimate why weren't voters given the option to stay with Ukraine? For that matter why did Russia need to lie about voter turnout?



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 08:37 AM
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The Irish times ran a story on their online page the SAS were seen in the east as were troops with no insignia but British accents a long time ago

Both sides have players in this arena but we don't share a border with Ukraine!

Funny how When NATO reaches out for another country to use as cannon folder in the future the governments decide to kill Russian people in their country like Georgia did

That part of the ritual?



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 08:38 AM
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originally posted by: Whereismypassword
You two are lying ,Crimea held an election and chose Russia instead of Ukraine


So Crimea a river and come back with the truth next time

So as I have explained there was an official election that was monitored can you please stop calling that
A Russian invasion

Wasn't an invasion I would call Afganistan and Iraq an invasion how on earth can you suggest they invaded Crimea when they were allowed troops there anyway

And the troops seen on the streets during the election was to stop the mad murdering racist bastards from the Ukraine government and it's dirty little secret of far right rat faced storm troopers with guns from spilling blood in Crimea

Pro truth guys,not pro Russian -please stop lying
The "election" wasn't internationally monitored. It was created and run by the Russian government. The troops on the streets were there to remind people which side they ought to vote for, not to "protect Russians from murderous Ukrainians". That aside, if there WERE so many murderous ukrainians that Russia decided to step in with it's Military, why was the vote so glaringly one-sided. Never, ever in history has a vote had the "turnout" that was reported, nor was such a landslide. Anyone with a brain can tell the vote was rigged. The UN and the rest of the civilized world knows the election was rigged. But again, Putin told you it was fair so it must be.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 08:41 AM
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originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: Rocker2013
I think I missed the part where internet sleuths located someone and claimed he is the person depicted...

Hmm, lets see... how the hell did anyone find out any information about a man they cannot see, in a video that's obviously dubbed, and then track him down to a social media account?

Man, this reeks of so much propaganda I don't even know where to start! At least the US does propaganda properly, it seems the pro-Russian propaganda attempting to imply random "foreigners" are in Ukraine (which in itself is nothing, considering they haven't invaded and Russia has invaded! lol) is concocted by amateurs, and people are still swallowing it


If this tells me anything it's that the pro-Russians are willing to buy anything they are told when it goes in their favour, even when it's blatantly stupid to the rest of us.


Where is your proof this is obviously dubbed? You have been saying it for pages but have yet to back it up a single time, do you the original recording?


See my second post on this.

I do have experience in audio, and it's clear to me that the audio levels are different throughout the video. He is heard crisp and clearly (in some bizarre concoction of English and American) with a mic away from his face, while he is turning his head away, while his hand is blocking it, and while he's moving forward at pace having experienced a shock.

Compare this to all other voices in the video, which all sound muffled to an extent, even when the mic is right in their face, with nothing blocking it, with no movement...

A child can see that this has been altered. But I don't expect the pro-Russians here to accept anything other than the nonsense line they want to believe supporting a pathetic opinion that somehow, even if real and genuine, this one man constitutes some kind of "evil Western" involvement.

Lets get this clear... even if this guy is British or American, it means nothing at all. Ukraine is our friend, and just as Putin says there are "volunteer" Russians in Ukraine, why the hell can't there be volunteer Brits or Americans there too, ACTUALLY INVITED by the military, government and people of Ukraine (as opposed to being an invading force fighting to steal land from the people who actually live there).

How come it's perfectly fine for Putin to say there are "volunteer" Russian soldiers in Ukraine, but it's something insidious if there are volunteers from other countries supporting Ukraine?

HYPOCRITE MUCH?


And we have to just take your word for it? You still have offered no proof it is obviously mimicked, none except for "because I say so". So far there is more evidence that this british guy is there but you are just trying to save face after waffling on two threads that it is dubbed. And who exactly are you calling a hypocrite? Me? Please tell me how.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 08:46 AM
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originally posted by: Whereismypassword
You two are lying ,Crimea held an election and chose Russia instead of Ukraine


You are ignoring the facts that don't support your position and that is a problem. A vote held under occupation is not valid. Russian soldiers invaded and seized Crimea before any votes ever occurred - either from voting to leave Ukraine to voting to join Russia. The vote is illegal under international law and a sham.

Secondly don't call me a liar and then fail to support your statement. Then again since you have nothing to support your claim I guess the personal attack is the route to go.



originally posted by: Whereismypassword
So Crimea a river and come back with the truth next time


we have you the truth. You are being willfully ignorant and refusing to accept the facts.




originally posted by: Whereismypassword
So as I have explained there was an official election that was monitored can you please stop calling that
A Russian invasion


no it was not an official election. If it were 99% of the planet would have accepted it at the UN. Since the UN general assembly condemned the vote and refused to accept it is just another bullet in your position.

It was, infact, a Russian invasion of sovereign Ukraine. Asking people to stop calling it what it is is a sure sign of denial.




originally posted by: Whereismypassword
Wasn't an invasion I would call Afganistan and Iraq an invasion how on earth can you suggest they invaded Crimea when they were allowed troops there anyway


The agreement for the black Sea Fleet of Russia restricts the numbers and types of units that can be deployed there. Any change in force required Russia to notify Ukraine and provide information and for Ukraine to either accept it or refuse the request. None of that occurred.

Russians forces are prohibited from leaving their base with their military equipment unless transiting between Russia and the base and vice versa.

The forces Russia sent in were not ffrom the base.
The forces Russia sent were armed.
The forces Russia sent fanned out across Crimea.

All in violation of the Black Sea treaty treaty, Ukraine's national sovereignty, and the United nations charter.




originally posted by: Whereismypassword
And the troops seen on the streets during the election was to stop the mad murdering racist bastards from the Ukraine government and it's dirty little secret of far right rat faced storm troopers with guns from spilling blood in Crimea
'
yeah that was the lie Putin used. The UNSC asked Russia numerous times for evidence to support those claims and to date Russia has never supplied any evidence to the UN to back it up.

Putin lied.... You apparently are believing his lies... I see Russian propaganda is effective on some people after all.




originally posted by: Whereismypassword
Pro truth guys,not pro Russian -please stop lying

No its definitely pro Russian. People seeking the truth actually do their research instead of being told what to believe by the kremlin.



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 02:28 AM
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originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Ukraine has always been part of Moscows orbit, lots longer than most of the USA has been under the control of Washington.

The pro Putin crowd is hilarious. So because Ukraine at one time was in Russia's orbit it must remain that way forever, and the people of Ukraine should have no say, and if they don't like it their land should be stolen.

Disgusting.



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 02:53 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

If they had a say there wasn`t a war.

Do you really think they wanted to be part of the EU ?

NO !

They are giving their answer...

Here

And here

If there`s anything disgusting, it`s what has been forced upon them.



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:01 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




And here


Isn't this the same source that you used to say an American was fighting in Ukraine as a mercenary...and that turned out to be false as he was a Brit.

SO now you want people to believe this video from the same person...Really?



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:04 AM
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a reply to: Whereismypassword




You two are lying ,Crimea held an election and chose Russia instead of Ukraine


Because they had no choice to stay with Ukraine.



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:13 AM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

If they had a say there wasn`t a war.

Do you really think they wanted to be part of the EU ?

NO !

They are giving their answer...

Here

And here

If there`s anything disgusting, it`s what has been forced upon them.

Except all of Eastern Ukraine that the rebels did not PREVENT from voting voted for the current pro EU/West government.

So you are flat out wrong.



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:15 AM
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originally posted by: Whereismypassword
You two are lying ,Crimea held an election and chose Russia instead of Ukraine

Actually as little as 30% of all Crimeans voted, and almost half voted AGAINST Russia .. and that is with Russian soldiers patrolling, and no neutral parties allowed in.

That means as little as 15-16% of Crimeans voted Pro-Russia.



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 03:16 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I never said there was an American fighting, I simply asked if it was an indication of there being American mercenaries in the Ukraine...you still haven`t found out what question marks are haven`t you?

To help you out !



SO now you want people to believe this video from the same person...Really?


Yeah, it`s probably fake...everything coming from the "wrong side" is staged according to you...it must be one happy place in your mind with being on the best side of the World.



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