God is Love... Except when he's committing genocide...

a reply to: Entreri06

Speaking of slavery, the New Testament says slavery is perfectly ok...and yes it was the same kinda slavery used in America.

You're confused. The NT condemns the kind of slavery that was in America. It calls it "manstealing". What was spoken about was indentured servitude, which is completely different and a normal way of life for millions of people back then in that day.

originally posted by: Entreri06


There were multiple tribes conquered for no more crime the believing in another religion. Be like if god told all the Christians to murder all the atheists, Muslims , Jews today....

But it was the detestable things they did in their religions and cultures that were the reason for being rightly dubbed as evil doers, or subject to the utter manipulation of evil doers.

Child sacrifice, human sacrifice, perversions that aren't fully known about or talked about.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Entreri06

Speaking of slavery, the New Testament says slavery is perfectly ok...and yes it was the same kinda slavery used in America.

You're confused. The NT condemns the kind of slavery that was in America. It calls it "manstealing". What was spoken about was indentured servitude, which is completely different and a normal way of life for millions of people back then in that day.

By anyone not you , man stealer means kidnapper and Slave means slave.... It's just that at the time slavery was something everyone did. Jesus would have been a laughing stock and run out of town by his own apostles for suggesting ending slavery .

Now looking back, we realize it's detestable. But from there point of view it was Tuesday.

So in now way shape form or fashion is the bible an immortal pinnacle of morality.....

originally posted by: r0xor

originally posted by: Entreri06


There were multiple tribes conquered for no more crime the believing in another religion. Be like if god told all the Christians to murder all the atheists, Muslims , Jews today....

But it was the detestable things they did in their religions and cultures that were the reason for being rightly dubbed as evil doers, or subject to the utter manipulation of evil doers.

Child sacrifice, human sacrifice, perversions that aren't fully known about or talked about.

Tho I'm not agreeing that they were all child sacrificers. That's frame at logic. This tribe is sacrificing.005% of there children. So let's go kill every single person in the town....

It depends on the way you are perceiving what god is. I believe that god is this moment, this beautiful reality, nature("nature loves courage"-Terence McKenna), the planet, the universe. you in this body, right now. In a sense you could say you are god because you are manifesting energies all around you. You create yourself. God is love and love is god. If you (God) are manifesting the energy of love, you are representing an extremely powerful energy, perhaps the most powerful. Love is of a higher frequency than fear which is a low frequency. Specific emotions of awareness arise when you manifest the energy of love, such as Courage, empathy, compassion, epiphanies etc. Fear being the opposite: Hate, Jealousy, greed etc.
"You can turn on a light in a dark room but you cant walk into a light room and make it dark" This is a great metaphor for what I am explaining. Someone could tell you they hate you and wish you were dead. Then you reply with I love you, your important, you matter. The energy of Love being able to help other people to overcome the energy of fear. This can be a very good perspective to have on life. Definitely a thought worth pondering.

originally posted by: Entreri06

Speaking of slavery, the New Testament says slavery is perfectly ok...and yes it was the same kinda slavery used in America. Just not based on race. That doesn't seem to be very far up the moral high ground mountain.

You know you could use a little logic and common sense in the context.
Romes Israel in Christs time meant slavery, had Jesus condemned slavery there would have been a slave revolt and possibly thousands and thousands would have died. You would be complaining and blaming about that instead.
Moral high ground and common sense high ground.
Please just apply your mind a little, just a little....please.
You could always study what Jesus and the apostles taught about slavery, but hey why, you know everything I guess?

originally posted by: Entreri06

I have a big issue with those who point at the Ten Commandments as moral perfection. 3 of the commandments are spent telling you not to worship other gods. While rape, assault, child molestation, slavery, exc were all left off.

I have issues with people who dont no how to reason, common logic. God taught many things, the 10 commandments teaches the Jewish people to love God and His laws, Gods laws forbid those issues you have.
Those issues were not left out of the law, just off the Ten commandments.

Disappoints me greatly when logic becomes invalid over teaching

This might be kind of 'out there' but..

Regarding God having it's own set of "laws" ..

How could man, if it truly is in the image of God in some way, know create and understand laws, even to the point of physics and all it entails in all of its calculations, if God itself didn't know and create law first in its own expression?

a reply to: Entreri06

When John and James, the "sons of thunder", wanted to call down fire on people that rejected them, they were speaking out of the religious mind.

Jesus said "You don't know what spirit you are of". Meaning, that is not the Spirit I am following. That is not how God is.

That same spirit of the religious mind is the one that claimed god told them to commit genocide. No different than the lady that drowned her kids because God told her to.

Either they crazy, or they rationalizing/justifying.

That is the reason Jesus came on the scene. To undo the broken image of God that we have foisted on ourselves. It still persists today in the vast majority of people who claim to follow God.

Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the father. Can picture Jesus telling Joshua to smash the babies heads on the rocks, kill every man, woman and child, (and the animals don't forget those)?

Everything he did was against religion, and the violence that religion perpetuates.

originally posted by: r0xor
But see you can always do that, forever. You can always look at anything God has ever supposedly ever done and say he did it wrong, poorly, foolishly, or that you or another God could have done it better. One can question God until they expire from old age. The flood happened. Whether or not 'God' directly decided for it to happen, or that it was just poor weather (lol), is the issue. No one will ever know the true answer with 100% certainty because no one has a time machine. I leave open the possibility of either, while people who argue against this typically are convinced that 'God' has absolutely nothing to do with it, and doesn't even 'exist'.

You're making this up as you go along aren't you....

To think that drowning everyone, every thing, all the animals and all the children is an acceptable solution for anything, is the type of nonsense only someone living in a cave would conjure up......and the type of thing only the worst apologist would attempt to excuse.

It seems that all benevolent 'God' plays by a certain set of rules; that is, some sort of a 'veil' concept. He doesn't appear before men, he doesn't directly meddle with men's affairs unless the fate of the world should rest on it. When he does cause something, it happens in a manner that can usually be explained by a freak incident or scientific anomaly, so that the so-called 'veil' isn't broken and free will of men, the highest creation on Earth, isn't influenced by things that God feels it shouldn't be (including coming down from the sky and having a picnic with all his beloved little children).

Except for when it apparently 'inspired' men to write about said flood/genocide.

And there is no evidence for a worldwide flood, nor is it even possible without supernatural/magic powers.

If referring to the flood, unfortunately, yes that also happened. If it was 'divinely caused', then the genetic lines of these children had been permanently tarnished by the so-called 'sons of God' breeding with the 'daughters of Man', causing abominations and 'giantism'. Whether that's all a load of BS or not, again, goes back to the idea that 'the world may never know'.

The god in the bible apologized for drowning all the children and babies in the world, along with all the animals remember?

Now, if they died only because the world was full of men who's hearts were evil continuously, and that was the only reason for the flood, then in God's wisdom, he saw what the near future on Earth would hold if he didn't intervene, but was limited by his own "set of rules" that he plays by that no one knows the true details of, but could be thought of almost like laws of physics in their design and function. You do know that an all-powerful being would have limited himself in his actions on this plane if this plane were to be able to play out on its' own to begin with, right? God can't just pop in and decide that the Moon no longer has a gravitational pull because he decides to change the existing laws of physics, or of anything else for that matter, whether he likes it or not, and whether it has grown into something he may not have originally intended.

You're still masking stuff up.....

How could he not have intended it? Maybe he limits his own foresight for the sake of fun.

Being all powerful would get boring for all of eternity.

Yeah drowning millions of people and babies is always a great way to pass the time and have a little bit of fun!

No. There were good and evil men on all sides in all factions. It's just that the leadership of certain factions were hell-bent on doing what they were doing, and trying to shape the future of the world forever genealogically, culturally, and religiously. 'God' saw that the Jews would be annihilated for eternity, along with many others, and many things would never happen on Earth. Prophecies and events would never play out. God's rule book in this case allows for an intervention if it maintains the so-called 'veil' concept, which is nearly always a requirement. Thus, the nations of the world rose to meet the threat even from a disadvantage at the beginning and, in short, "saved the world".

Lol smh, so in order for this creature to save the world he needed millions of good people to die first. And it intervened in a way that's completely indistinguishable from it not intervening.......this is some of the worst apologetics I've ever come across.

No, man can and does form that way naturally. The concept of God will mean little to nothing to that man. However, if the men surrounding that man, that live on Earth are followers of God in the true sense of being truly good in their ways, they'll come together to make sure that they stop the bad, evil men from being able to carry out their debaucheries on other people, places, and things. This is why the concept of God is needed to fight evil. So that no matter what terrible things mankind decides to come up with and indoctrinate itself with, even if they were the worst ideologies and weapons ever devised, there'd still be good people to stop them.

The 'concept' of your god? the genocidal, child drowning, slavery promoting despot? ha!

You have to be very desperate to make such a claim.

Ironically, they've only been able to say anything at all for a few hundred thousand years...
Yet, look at all that's changed in a mere 2,000 years. Unprecedented in recorded history.

The past 2-3 hundred year? since we emerged from the christianity induced dark ages? since we dropped the shackles of ignorance born from accrediting everything to a god and the bible? sure!

The previous 1800-1700 years? not so much.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
So like North Korea? The #1 most persecuted place on the planet for Christians. Good call.

Didn't you just accuse someone of cherry picking?

You decide N.Korea is a great example of a country without religion, and not Norway or Japan? not Sweden or Denmark? etc etc

But N.Korea.....

Very typical.

nvm

a reply to: Prezbo369

You decide N.Korea is a great example of a country without religion

Not exactly, PRNK is a great example of a country that criminalizes religion. The other member said the world would be a better place if religion were banned (illegal):

If religion were banned the world would be a better place.

So, in logic, lets see what happens to people of faith in countries where religion is "banned"... North Korea.

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Entreri06

Speaking of slavery, the New Testament says slavery is perfectly ok...and yes it was the same kinda slavery used in America.

You're confused. The NT condemns the kind of slavery that was in America. It calls it "manstealing". What was spoken about was indentured servitude, which is completely different and a normal way of life for millions of people back then in that day.

By anyone not you , man stealer means kidnapper and Slave means slave.... It's just that at the time slavery was something everyone did. Jesus would have been a laughing stock and run out of town by his own apostles for suggesting ending slavery .

Now looking back, we realize it's detestable. But from there point of view it was Tuesday.

So in now way shape form or fashion is the bible an immortal pinnacle of morality.....

No, a "manstealer" is a slave trader/dealer. A person who kidnaps/steals another person and sells them into slavery (the early American model). That is forbidden in the NT. The Greek word for "slave/servant" is "doulos", that is a bond servant/indentured servant. Someone who serves at their volition, and for a determined period of time. Generally it is to pay back a debt. There was no such thing as Visa or Mastercard back then, if people didn't have money they went into servanthood to repay.

A slave-dealer; someone who seizes another person to hold that person as a slave or sell that person into slavery; more loosely: a slaveholder.

Manstealer ~ definition

1401 doúlos (a masculine noun of uncertain derivation) – properly, someone who belongs to another; a bond-slave, without any ownership rights of their own. Ironically, 1401 /doúlos ("bond-slave") is used with the highest dignity in the NT – namely, of believers who willingly live under Christ's authority as His devoted followers.

Doulos ~ #G1401

The OT & NT are the same thing: a book written by Man, retranslated by Man, & rewritten by Man. If there's one thing Man likes to do its blame something else(God) or someone else (Man).

originally posted by: borntowatch

originally posted by: Entreri06

Speaking of slavery, the New Testament says slavery is perfectly ok...and yes it was the same kinda slavery used in America. Just not based on race. That doesn't seem to be very far up the moral high ground mountain.

You know you could use a little logic and common sense in the context.
Romes Israel in Christs time meant slavery, had Jesus condemned slavery there would have been a slave revolt and possibly thousands and thousands would have died. You would be complaining and blaming about that instead.
Moral high ground and common sense high ground.
Please just apply your mind a little, just a little....please.
You could always study what Jesus and the apostles taught about slavery, but hey why, you know everything I guess?

originally posted by: Entreri06

I have a big issue with those who point at the Ten Commandments as moral perfection. 3 of the commandments are spent telling you not to worship other gods. While rape, assault, child molestation, slavery, exc were all left off.

I have issues with people who dont no how to reason, common logic. God taught many things, the 10 commandments teaches the Jewish people to love God and His laws, Gods laws forbid those issues you have.
Those issues were not left out of the law, just off the Ten commandments.

Disappoints me greatly when logic becomes invalid over teaching

In the Old Testament it gives you permission to rape your slaves as long as your wife is barren.:.. Did the Old Testament god do anything that wouldn't be considered evil by today's standards??? I'm no saying he didn't, but nothing comes to mind.


The apostles taught that you should obey your slave master as if it were a sin against god not too.. Plus there were still revolts and murders without Jesus taking on slavery.... All the Christians burned in the coliseum is one example. So I'm not seeing him not wanting to rock the boat.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Entreri06

Speaking of slavery, the New Testament says slavery is perfectly ok...and yes it was the same kinda slavery used in America.

You're confused. The NT condemns the kind of slavery that was in America. It calls it "manstealing". What was spoken about was indentured servitude, which is completely different and a normal way of life for millions of people back then in that day.

By anyone not you , man stealer means kidnapper and Slave means slave.... It's just that at the time slavery was something everyone did. Jesus would have been a laughing stock and run out of town by his own apostles for suggesting ending slavery .

Now looking back, we realize it's detestable. But from there point of view it was Tuesday.

So in now way shape form or fashion is the bible an immortal pinnacle of morality.....

No, a "manstealer" is a slave trader/dealer. A person who kidnaps/steals another person and sells them into slavery (the early American model). That is forbidden in the NT. The Greek word for "slave/servant" is "doulos", that is a bond servant/indentured servant. Someone who serves at their volition, and for a determined period of time. Generally it is to pay back a debt. There was no such thing as Visa or Mastercard back then, if people didn't have money they went into servanthood to repay.

A slave-dealer; someone who seizes another person to hold that person as a slave or sell that person into slavery; more loosely: a slaveholder.

Manstealer ~ definition

1401 doúlos (a masculine noun of uncertain derivation) – properly, someone who belongs to another; a bond-slave, without any ownership rights of their own. Ironically, 1401 /doúlos ("bond-slave") is used with the highest dignity in the NT – namely, of believers who willingly live under Christ's authority as His devoted followers.

Doulos ~ #G1401

m.biblestudytools.com...


classic.net.bible.org...


Maybe but if you buy the slave it's cool...and those are actual bible study sites...

Most slaves weren't kidnapped, you bought them or took them after a war. That's 2 completely different things.

Roman slavery


Slaves were considered property under Roman law and had no legal personhood. Unlike Roman citizens, they could be subjected to corporal punishment, sexual exploitation (prostitutes were often slaves), torture, and summary execution. The testimony of a slave could not be accepted in a court of law unless the slave was tortured—

a reply to: Entreri06

The first link refers directly to the verse I was speaking of in 1 Timothy, that the "American model" of slavery was forbidden in the NT, it's where a person or some other steals/kidnaps a person and sells them into slavery. So when the member said the NT condones the American model that's wholly untrue. Men and women were stolen in Africa by slave traders and sold all over the world.

The term "servant/bondservant" in the NT is a "doulos", which is a bond servant/indentured servant. Someone who enters into that agreement of their own will and volition, and generally our of necessity. So when the statement is made that the New Testament affirms the "American model" of slavery that is completely false, it condemns it.

originally posted by: Eunuchorn
The OT & NT are the same thing: a book written by Man, retranslated by Man, & rewritten by Man. If there's one thing Man likes to do its blame something else(God) or someone else (Man).

That's heresy you nasty blasphemer!!!

You know what we do to heretics?

"Bubba, stack up the lumber nice and neat, we gonna BBQ ourselves a heretic as commanded by the man upstairs"

originally posted by: olaru12


oops...dbl pst.

edit on 24-1-2015 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)