New Orleans Passes Extensive Smoking Ban

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: interupt42

Nope - nonsmokers were never FORCED to enter a bar or restaurant that allowed smoking! That was their choice entirely.

And nobody is forcing you to go out to non smoking establishment, glad we cleared that up.

As for the issue of moulds and fungus - it is clear that health is of no concern to you. Smoking doesn't even make the top ten of triggers for asthma. As a matter of fact, smoking doesn't even make the list of the top ten.

I never said it was ONLY about health concerns. I said it was annoying as well, just like if I sat their shooting you in the face with a water spray bottle.

So its clear it is of no concern to you what rights are taken away, or you would be fighting just as vigorously to change the law to allow people to shoot smokers in the face with a spray bottle.

originally posted by: mikell
Sounds like Michigan and it works well. Some whine but the rest of us can have a couple of beers after work without having to leave our clothes outside when we go home.

You are what is wrong with the world

a reply to: interupt42

Its clear that setting indoor air quality standards would address everyone's health concerns. It is the solution I am proposing.

You go ahead and keep fighting for your "right" not to be annoyed or offended by anyone, ever and to have every environment to your taste, regardless of how it affects others.

I will continue to agigate for my perferred solution - set a standard for indoor air quality and let the venue owner decide for himself how he wants to meet those standards.

No outdoor bans and smokers will never give up the right to control their own homes, regardless of who it bothers. We are just one of many annoyances and there is absolutely no reason to treat us differently and in a more draconian manner that other people

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

No outdoor bans and smokers will never give up the right to control their own homes, regardless of who it bothers.

No one is asking you to.

Smokers weren't courteous when they were allowed to smoke so now you are dealing with the consequences. Like it or not, Smokers physically violate the right of non smokers. Change that , than smoke all you want.

a reply to: interupt42

Ah revenge is so sweet isn't it? Even when you cut off your nose to spite your face. You go on with your bad self. Smokers day will come around again

Tired of Control Freaks

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: interupt42

Ah revenge is so sweet isn't it? Even when you cut off your nose to spite your face. You go on with your bad self. Smokers day will come around again

Tired of Control Freaks

Has nothing to do with revenge. It has to do with preventing others rights from being physically violated.

Nobody is telling you not to smoke, just don't do it where your smoke violates others physically.

You wouldn't want people to spray you in the face with water so why do you expect people to want your smoke in their face.?

a reply to: interupt42

NO! - end of story! I say NO - unless I am provided with a social life I can enjoy that is equal to your opportunities - then on behalf of all smokers.

NO NO NO NO NO NO

I will continue to fight the tyranny of the majority over the minority. We both live in countries that have rules of law that is supposed to control the majority.

I will continue to fight.

So I say to you Sir - NO!

You should take equal responsibility to avoid places where smokers congregate - not support bans that deny smokers any place to congregate.

Tired of Control Sir

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

If the ban in multi-residential units is passed, this is the only option that will be offered to smokers as a place to smoke

search.tb.ask.com...^AW6^xdm005^YYA^ca&qid=6d47f930397a440 6a49fe19c468539de&n=780ce909&ss=sub&pn=1&st=sb&ptb=D5A19EBA-DD12-4BBA-AA67-990F2A335BC3&tpr=&si=CMWB2rizicICFcZcMgodt1wAKQ

That is grossly inhumane!

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

unless I am provided with a social life I can enjoy that is equal to your opportunities

So you can only have a social life if you smoke?
Why must you blow smoke in my face to socialize?
You do have equal opportunity with the ban, I'm not blowing smoke in your face and you are not blowing smoke in mine.

I will continue to fight the tyranny of the majority over the minority.

Good for you, but I hope you don't think you are doing this by posting in ATS?

However, if you want to fight tyrany are you also fighting for my right to spray you in the face with a water gun when your smoke gets in my face?

Besides, I'm not so sure the majority are the ones that smoke. That may have been numerous decades ago but I doubt it now. I know the trend has been going down for smokers, but I haven't really looked at any statistics on this?

This thread is going to drive me to smoke. To you, TiredOfControlFreaks, I cry, "Uncle!" and flick my Bic in your general direction.

a reply to: kosmicjack

Thank you kosmicjack - I do believe that I have more than made my point. More important than trying to change anyone's mind, I hope I have shown smokers that we do not have to meekly accept the browbeating and abuse of anti-smokers. We can fight back and we are making fools of them.

I will retire as the champion I really am.

Tired of Control Freaks

I mentioned in my post earlier how much smaller my ticket at a restaurant is since smoking bans have passed. No longer eat desert, ever, and buy only one drink when i eat out now and always before never after a meal it's gonna be an ok margin draft or bottled domestic as opposed to the high margin cocktail i was likely to order after desert and before the smoking ban. From my time working in restaurants during college i know that liquor drinks and desserts are some of the higher margin items on a menu.

So, my idea is something like a businesses card showing the the owner how much money he lost, the server how much of a tip they lost, and the government how much they lost in sales taxes due to the smoking ban to leave with the check and tip. I tip 10% for poor service, 15% for acceptable, and throw a $5 or better on top of the15% for service beyond acceptable. The card would have lines for appetizers, desert, and drinks skipped with multipliers for number of people with me so the owner would have a good idea of how much money he's losing from me due to the local ordinances. The server would be able to see how much less in tips they get due to a smaller ticket, and the state would see how much less sales tax they get.

Let's say that mean my wife go out to eat have a $50 check pay up and leave. The owner has $50 in revenue which since we avoided the high margin drink and desert after our meal, which may be anywhere from barely profitable to ok but ain't gonna get rich on that margin; the server,if they were acceptable,will make $7.50; and the state/city/county will split $3.50 in sales tax.

The card would have a spot for me to put in the prices for two deserts,2 drinks, and spots to put thre additional tip and taxes I'd have paid if i could still smoke a cigarette after my entre and decide if i was gonna spend more money at that restaurant.

I really don't know what drinks and desert cost at a mid tier restaurant now so I'm going to take some guesses. I figure cocktails are around $7 or $8 now and desert around $6 or $7. If each of us got a desert and a drink that would be around an extra $30 on a check. So the owner is out $30 of revenue on two of his highest margin items, the servers tip is $4.50 lower, and the government gets $2.10 less in taxes. That's on a single visit, and doesn't even take into account the fact i don't eat out anywhere near as often post ban.

Letting business owners,and servers know how much money they losing from you is the only way bans will change. The state will just recoup lost taxes from other sources including non smokers and most likely double tap the business owners by raising business and liquor license fees.

a reply to: jefwane

That is actually a great idea - why don't you start a new post and call it - Pro-choice smokers fighting back.

I think this thread has pretty much run its course. The anti-smokers are down to name calling cause they got nothing else. They know these draconian bans are unnecessary and unjustified.

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Oh, I still think you're seriously misguided, I'm just tired of hearing about it. LOL!

But I do wish you peace and good health TOCF.

a reply to: kosmicjack

Moving to the US after having smoking banned indoors for nearly two decades, I was shocked at the The Stink in hotels, blyuk, casinos, I nearly choked. I coughed, my body rejected big time. When it was banned back home it wasn't a big deal. Few people snorted initially, but forgot about it no time. Everyone agrees it's just nicer eating food or having a drink when you can taste it and your senses aren't overwhelmed by smoke.
Businesses will not lose money. Plenty of countries and cities have set the precedent that it can work ammicably and isn't the end of the world.

a reply to: kosmicjack

And I give you my best regards as well kosmicjack - at least you were open to debate!

BTW - I think you are misguided as well but that isn't any reason not to respect each other

Tired of Control Freaks

reply to: TiredofControlFreaks
I'm no where near as militant about it as you. I truly hate government telling businesses owners they can't cater to smokers. Pre ban a restaurant had to have really great food in order to be entirely non smoking and still be financially viable, and a non smoking bar was something only a fool would invest in.

Worst case is i spend way less money eating out and therefore fewer taxes for the people that passed these bans to spread amongst their buddies. I'm half vaping and half smoking now and have enough juice to last years if they try hitting ecigs like they have cigarettes on taxes.

originally posted by: kosmicjack
a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Oh, I still think you're seriously misguided, I'm just tired of hearing about it. LOL!

But I do wish you peace and good health TOCF.

LOL, I think I have reached my limit as well. The smoke barrier on that one is strong.

Peace out TiredofControlFreaks and for you families regards , may you enjoy your smoke in your house.

I will keep an eye out for a grumpy one the next time I go out to eat in a non smoking establishment and possibly send a beer to him.

a reply to: interupt42

LOL - You best be looking out for a woman with a really bubbly personality. I guess that water fight is out of the question. I was going to wear a white t-shirt and everything!

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Dude it must be exhausting being you. Go have a smoke and relax a lil.