Rapper facing long prison sentence over lyrics

Source

Hope it's not a duplicate, didn't see it in a search.

San Diego-based rapper Tiny Doo has already spent eight months in prison, and faces 25 years to life in prison if convicted under a little-known California statute that makes it illegal to benefit from gang activities

Prosecutors point to Tiny Doo's album, "No Safety," and to lyrics like "Ain't no safety on this pistol I'm holding" as examples of a "direct correlation to what the gang has been doing."

No one suggests the rapper ever actually pulled a trigger.

In fact, Duncan may rap about violence but he's got no criminal record.

I don't care for rap music and I don't respect the thug life- but this is just one more example of a blatant "everyone is criminal" mentality.

a reply to: lordcomac

Um, doesn't the article state that the reason why he was arrested was because he was linked (by California) to illegal gang activity?

Guns don't kill people, rappers do, as Goldie Looking Chain once rapped.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Search function is #, also story is from November last year.

a reply to: lordcomac
hmmmm Im in mixed feelings on this.

Is he actually a member of a gang?

If he is and that gang has committed felony then I see as its no different than jailing someone who has direct links to a terrorist group but has not committed a terrorist act themselves.


Gangs are criminal organizations. Don't link yourself to one, simple.

a reply to: lordcomac

Yeah, I feel like a criminal nearly every time I walk into a store/shop and even though the shops have cctv everywhere, the owners still look at you as if you are going to steal something.

They are all paranoid and live in fear!

originally posted by: TruthxIsxInxThexMist
a reply to: lordcomac

Yeah, I feel like a criminal nearly every time I walk into a store/shop and even though the shops have cctv everywhere, the owners still look at you as if you are going to steal something.

They are all paranoid and live in fear!

To be honest if I owned a convenience store in a large urban center I'd be paranoid too.

Unbelievable. Rappers have been talking about guns and violence since before the 90s. Why is it suddenly a big deal? Why not convict the majority of California rappers, if that is the case? Why this guy? There's obviously way more to the story. According to the article the only evidence they have linking him to a gang is his album lyrics and select social media posts. No offense, but that is a very weak case. First amendment makes it so that you can't be held responsible for art and lyrics, so what gives them the right to put this guy in jail for 8 months? What exactly did he say on facebook or twitter that wasn't to promote his album sales? Rappers claim all kind of things in their music, and probably less than 1% of it is true. I hope this guy gets off and counter sues over the 8 months he lost over artistic expression. Sad.

Gangs are criminal organizations. Don't link yourself to one, simple.

The problem with this statement is that the only thing linking him to "gang activity" are album lyrics, his art and a few select social media posts most likely used to promote his album. If talking about gangs is enough to put you in prison, then they need to arrest 95% of the rap game right now. That's like arresting somebody for playing Grand Theft Auto and tweeting about how you are killing Bloods or Crips, and strengthening your gang. It's silliness and they are making an example of this guy, but why? Are people seriously going to claim that Dr Dre has never talked about violence in tweets? I'd be shocked out of my mind if that were true.

Are racist country music singers that talk about lynching and much worse going to be held responsible every time a hate crime occurs in their area? I doubt it.

originally posted by: Barcs
If talking about gangs is enough to put you in prison, then they need to arrest 95% of the rap game right now.

Sounds like a idea. May go along way to tackling the issue of violence in black culture.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Barcs
If talking about gangs is enough to put you in prison, then they need to arrest 95% of the rap game right now.

Sounds like a idea. May go along way to tackling the issue of violence in black culture.

I disagree because hip hop culture gives people that come from less fortunate circumstances a voice. Maybe they can relate to having no money and resorting to selling drugs and joining gangs. It gives the listeners a chance to put themselves in the shoes of people and to get some perspective on how they became like that. It's not as simple as violence in "black culture." Violence is a fact of reality on this planet we live on and history has shown that it's certainly not limited to any one culture. Taking away a form of expression solves nothing and does absolutely zero to directly combat violence. Gang violence is not a result of violent hip hop lyrics, it's the other way around. Address the real issues, and you may see the music change over time. Art mimics culture. You don't fight crime by attacking art and expression. To me, that sounds like removing classic rock or arresting all the musicians from the 60s and 70s that are still alive hoping that it will combat drug use. It's scapegoating and nothing more.

If they have direct evidence that this guy was involved in gangs, then they should present it and let the jury decide. But if his lyrics and a few tweets is enough to send somebody to jail for 8 months, then society has really taken a plunge off the deep end here. It saddens me that art is still used as a scapegoat and silly things like tweets can be taken as literal truth when applicable, despite having zero tangible evidence of any gang association.

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: lordcomac
hmmmm Im in mixed feelings on this.

Is he actually a member of a gang?

If he is and that gang has committed felony then I see as its no different than jailing someone who has direct links to a terrorist group but has not committed a terrorist act themselves.


Gangs are criminal organizations. Don't link yourself to one, simple.

Like a parent who would have direct links to a terrorist child?You don't see anything the matter with that nice big broad term 'direct link'?

originally posted by: glen200376

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: lordcomac
hmmmm Im in mixed feelings on this.

Is he actually a member of a gang?

If he is and that gang has committed felony then I see as its no different than jailing someone who has direct links to a terrorist group but has not committed a terrorist act themselves.


Gangs are criminal organizations. Don't link yourself to one, simple.

Like a parent who would have direct links to a terrorist child?You don't see anything the matter with that nice big broad term 'direct link'?

don't be pedantic.


I meant people who directly addmit to being terrorist.

A rapper who sings about how he commits violent crime and being in a known criminal gang is no different from a jihad joe who makes a video waving a AK 47 and shouting about how he is in ISIS and going to kill the west.


Its up to the jury to decide if that rapper is just bull#ting or actually confessing to crimes.

a reply to: crazyewok

I think its ridiculous that either of your examples would end up in court.Both are victimless.Crimes should be about actions not words.
Just so you know,I can't stand rap music(with a silent c)or mad Muslim extremists.

originally posted by: glen200376
a reply to: crazyewok

I think its ridiculous that either of your examples would end up in court.Both are victimless.Crimes should be about actions not words.
Just so you know,I can't stand rap music(with a silent c)or mad Muslim extremists.

If someone buys a ton of chemicals to make a bomb makes threats about blowing building up and killing they should be allowed to walk free cause "no crime has been commited " yet?

If a kid with problems posts on face book how he will shoot a school and buys a gun, thats ok no action is to be taken?

The police need to wait until people are dead before they can take action?


If someone makes songs about killing and violence and has links to criminal organization then it is right they are investigated. Whether they should be convicted is a different matter and defends on evidence.


In most country's and even states in the US have conspiracy laws. Which mean you can be charged for a crime that has not yet been committed if there is extensive evidence that indicated you will commit that crime. Rightly there are hard to make stick in court, but they are there for a reason. To stop some thug or terrorist killing you while the police stand and watch.

a reply to: crazyewok

The problem with everything you are saying, is that there aren't any known direct links to the gang, which is a huge difference in those situations. Their evidence is song lyrics and social media posts. You can drop metaphors about it until the cows come home, but they do not apply in this case because the direct association to the gang has not been proven yet, as far as we know. Did this guy make direct threats to anybody outside of his art? Is he really associated with a gang? Sure, investigate it, yes. Don't just throw the guy in prison for 8 months on million dollar bail, without direct evidence.

Does anybody have a copy of the facebook messages or tweets in question here? I'm curious as to what he actually said outside of his music and why they were taken literally. Rappers tweet about that kind of stuff all the time. I'm interested in the quotes. Don't under estimate the potential of humans to lie to make money. It happens all the time, especially with art.

a reply to: Barcs

I was just about to mention this.

I find it very very unlikely he is in jail awaiting trial based on just song lyrics. No procecutor would be stupid enough to pursue a case soly on that. Not if they value there career as a conviction would be unlikely.a defence laywer would have no trouble proveing reasonble doubt. A monkey could win a defence case on that.

Im going to place a big bet here and say the police only used the lyrics as a excuse to get a warrent to conduct a indepth investigation. They may have access to phone records, texts, email ect, may have hard evidence on him being at a scence of a crime, they may have gained witnesses ect

He may not even have directly commited a crime. But the above may have revealled a close connection of his has commited a felony and this rapper not only know about but is actively covering for it, makeing him a ascessory at worst and obstructing the courts at best.

Fact is until the trial we wont know.

I'm wrong but the words he raps incite violence. Screw him. Buh bye. No tears, you junior wannabe gangsta. You have regressed your people to the point where only violence is going to fix it now. Rot in hell.

Yeah- on the one hand gangsters and thug life idiots are a problem.
But at the same time, if you can get arrested for lyrics, you can get arrested for telling a joke.

It's just more more step to guilty until proven innocent- you are all guilty, and if we decide we want you out of the way, we've got this convenient legal system all set up and ready to put you away.

Today its violent lyrics, tomorrow it's offensive jokes, next week it's speaking out against the path this country is taken- before you know it you won't be able to say boo to the rich.

This isn't a good direction for us to be heading.

a reply to: LOSTinAMERICA

Can you prove that his lyrics actually have incited violence and aren't a reflection of the society he grew up in? We get it, you don't like gangsta rap. Nobody said you have to like it, but you have already passed judgement on the guy strictly over art. That's like blaming the godfather trilogy for organized crime. Stop scapegoating. The violence isn't caused by the music, it is caused by poverty and desperation. CrazyEwok is right in the sense that we don't know the actual evidence until the trial although that website said the evidence is based on social media. It didn't mention anything else. That's just a really weak case if that's all they have.

originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: LOSTinAMERICA

Can you prove that his lyrics actually have incited violence and aren't a reflection of the society he grew up in? We get it, you don't like gangsta rap. Nobody said you have to like it, but you have already passed judgement on the guy strictly over art. That's like blaming the godfather trilogy for organized crime. Stop scapegoating. The violence isn't caused by the music, it is caused by poverty and desperation. CrazyEwok is right in the sense that we don't know the actual evidence until the trial although that website said the evidence is based on social media. It didn't mention anything else. That's just a really weak case if that's all they have.

Listen to it