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Do You Believe God Created Everything?

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posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 08:09 AM
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The problem with considering a question like this at all is, our extremely limited perception of reality. No one talks quantum mechanics with a two year old.

Yet humans, in our arrogance, think we can answer questions such as this with our sciences, and our man-made religions. We haven't even begun to scratch the surface. Nevertheless, given time, and our need for exploration and understanding. We will learn enough to make what we know now seem antiquated.

The idea of a creator or creators, is easy enough to entertain or contemplate. The idea of a god/goddess is just ridiculous to me at this point in my life. Deity and divinity are human concepts. Nothing more. imho.
edit on 1/23/2015 by Klassified because: redaction




posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 08:09 AM
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originally posted by: rockpaperhammock
a reply to: OpinionatedB

Including plague, poverty and hate? And what about the weird face I just carved into a piece of wood...did god create that?



Yes, it's something many people will have a hard time to accept but like the fire that can both heat and burn, the way the universe exploded into a fireworks of complexity means it had to include both a positive and a negative force, as explained before. We assign strong moral values to these terms, but the hard truth is that they are necessary for us to reach the point we are at now.


If there was only a force of aggregation, pulling things together, what some people call love, gravity or magnetism depending on the context, in the end there would be nothing but a giant ball of matter, a singular mass, huge and all alone. Basically, the universe would revert back to singularity, to its initial or seed form.

"God" or the universe allowed for a second force to exist, one that breaks down and separate, releasing heat and light, because it was necessary for it to achieve it's goal of reaching more complexity and reach higher forms of consciousness.

Some see this force as an evil, but then it's a necessary evil. Life without death is cancer, and cancer eventually kills its host. Without decomposition organisms cannot feed. Without the fire burning the forest, there is no room for smaller plants to stand a chance.


Plague, poverty and hate are hurting us and we don't always understand why god would allow them. But these things aren't existing as individual realities, they exist BECAUSE there's an opposite at the other end of the spectrum.

Plague and death exists BECAUSE life exists. Poverty exists BECAUSE wealth exist. Hate exists BECAUSE love and compassion exists.

"God" does not willingly inflicts these upon us. God isn't a thinking person, this is a classical mistake. God is a force, and like all force it's blind. It set a machine into motion and is still animating it.

If we want less plague, less hate and less poverty, god also gave us the tool to achieve this.

It's man who doesn't really want to eliminate these side effects, not god. God only wants more complexity and consciousness. Suffering, death, love, compassion are simply parts of the big picture and the big picture cannot exist without all its part.


It's always very funny when someone uses suffering or death as an argument proving god is not existing or evil. Without death we wouldn't be here. Without suffering animals wouldn't have survival instinct.

If you can't see the big picture of course you will try to blame someone for what you don't like. It doesn't mean the things you don't like are necessarily evil.

Evil is only a result of man's free will and consciousness. A byproduct of it.

Would you rather live with free will or without evil?
edit on 23-1-2015 by JUhrman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 08:43 AM
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a reply to: Shiloh7

It is an infinite spiral you are trying to unravel and you may as well as what or who is God and try to understand that equally impossible concept, a concept most atheists seem to lack any ability to try to understant having given up and shut the door on the matter, keep searching and keep trying to understandm blind belief is not belief it is pulling the sheet's over the head and hiding under them but lack of belief, as a christian Christ said he had come to open our eye's to give sight to the blind and he actually engaged in discussion which is a very human thing to do, discussing what is creation, did God create it all or did he simply turn desolation into life and darkness into light.

The esoteric path's offer more questions' than answer's but many have followed them quoting from the work's of other's that walked that same path before them and using there texts like the Hermetica as signposts never wondering was it a sign on the right path or just a dead end.

For me God is endless and outside time, before time and after time around the world and within it.
He is endless.
If he is outside time them the question become's even more difficult as it is a paradox that can not be answered from the limited dimension's of our state or awareness and the linear nature of our mind's.

But for me Yes he created everything, he is the primal beginning and created time itself.
edit on 23-1-2015 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 09:11 AM
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a reply to: Shiloh7

I just wanted to add this relating to what I said about God being like the Master Programmer.

The way I stumbled on this (useful to me at least) metaphor was during an examination of some of Jesus' miracles.

Acts like turning water into wine, walking on water and subduing storms, transfiguration, profound physical and psychological healing, feeding thousands of people with just a few fish and loaves, raising Lazarus and others, ultimately His own resurrection, all point to a very strange ability by God to transform the physical in an instant. Even in the OT this was demonstrated by Moses, Joshua and others.

Might it be possible that God can alter reality as easily as a programmer can alter the functions and result of a program? If we believe any of those accounts of miracles it seems like the only explanation. Like the cheats on a game, suddenly actions that completely defy the normal laws of the created reality are possible.

This even carries into the spiritual concept of The Book of Life; a means by which we are somehow recorded and represented by a code that can be reanimated.

In Genesis it is written that God made Adam out of dust. Science even says the same thing, that all life evolved from the building blocks that were already present in the elements of the earth. The Chemistry lab of the right materials being in the right place at the right time brought about those first animated cellular structures in which was written a code that could manifest itself in the diversity of life we have upon the earth today.






edit on 23-1-2015 by lonesomerimbaud because: extra bit.



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 09:15 AM
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a reply to: lonesomerimbaud

but did he create the face in the wood...even if you argue god created the wood or put things in place..he didnt create the face...so he didnt create everything...and if the father of lies created all the evil then god still didnt create everything because the father of lies or whatever you are saying created it...

if you read the bible there are so many flaws with god that it is a joke at best...not saying god doesn't exist but i can't say the bible is perfect at all.. maybe man #ed it up but the bible is insane....god seems to be a fan of murdering children if you beleive in everythign that is in the bible...

2 Kings 2:23-24New International Version (NIV)

Elisha Is Jeered
23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys.


Lets say your god did this...I want you to think about something...if god is all powerful...could he have not just let them die in their sleep? No he specifically chose a way to horrifically murder these children by two bears. If they really needed to be killed why not just say "die" and then they all die...nope like a sadistic freak he enjoyed the good show 2 bears gave more than using his power in a less horrific way.

This is why the bible is garbage.
edit on 23-1-2015 by rockpaperhammock because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-1-2015 by rockpaperhammock because: i kanz not spellz



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 09:25 AM
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originally posted by: rockpaperhammock
a reply to: lonesomerimbaud

but did he create the face in the wood...even if you argue god created the wood or put things in place..he didnt create the face...so he didnt create everything..



Actually, god's work as a force of creation did not stop at the big bang.

Since we have already cleared out that god isn't a person but a potential for increasing complexity, the force behind consciousness and creation, it's that part of god in you that created the face too


Why do you think some religious texts are saying god is in you and you are in god?

God isn't something separated from you, it's the animating principle behind all things.

Of course god created everything. Now if you don't like the word god and prefer "consciousness", "life force", "chaos", "necessity" or whatever, pick the one you prefer. It doesn't matter in the end how we call it. What is important is understanding how this force animating the universe and generating always more complexity and consciousness works, and how to live without opposing its natural flow.



There is no reason to keeping bringing the bible and religions on the table. The topic at hand here is god, and religions do not have the monopoly on this concept
Actually Jesus himself was more of a mystic than a religious man. Because knowing and understanding god is a personal and individual journey.


Are you seriously claiming there are scientific errors and tribal cultural BS in a symbolic book about spirituality written 2000 years ago and more ?
It's claiming the opposite that would be crazy. Only the most radical/fundamentalist of christians are claiming the bible is the infallible word of god.
edit on 23-1-2015 by JUhrman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 09:39 AM
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originally posted by: rockpaperhammock
a reply to: lonesomerimbaud

but did he create the face in the wood...even if you argue god created the wood or put things in place..he didnt create the face...so he didnt create everything...and if the father of lies created all the evil then god still didnt create everything because the father of lies or whatever you are saying created it...

if you read the bible there are so many flaws with god that it is a joke at best...not saying god doesn't exist but i can't say the bible is perfect at all.. maybe man #ed it up but the bible is insane....god seems to be a fan of murdering children if you beleive in everythign that is in the bible...

2 Kings 2:23-24New International Version (NIV)

Elisha Is Jeered
23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys.


Lets say your god did this...I want you to think about something...if god is all powerful...could he have not just let them die in their sleep? No he specifically chose a way to horrifically murder these children by two bears. If they really needed to be killed why not just say "die" and then they all die...nope like a sadistic freak he enjoyed the good show 2 bears gave more than using his power in a less horrific way.

This is why the bible is garbage.


Elisha and the Lads of Bethel

"In the book of 2 Kings, there is an intriguing narrative that has generated considerable controversy. Concerning the prophet Elisha, the text reads as follows.

And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them (2 Kings 2:23-24).

Atheists have appealed to this incident in an attempt to involve the Bible in moral difficulty. A careful consideration of the facts, however, will dissolve the problem.

First, the translation, “there came forth little children out of the city” (KJV) is an unfortunate rendition (cf. “young lads”—ASV, or “youths”—NIV, NKJV). The Hebrew word rendered “children” derives from na’ar—used 235 times in the Old Testament. Na’ar is a very broad root word, and can have reference to anyone from a newborn child to an adult. Further, the Hebrew word rendered “little” comes from qatan, and generally means young or small. In commenting on this term in 2 Kings 2:23, the Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament remarked:

Elisha being taunted (cf. qalas, qarah) by young lads (perhaps teen-age ruffians) (II Kgs 2:23) who as members of covenant families ought to have been taught God’s law whereby cursing his servant was tantamount to cursing him and rightly punishable by death (qalal) (Harris, et al., 1980, 2:795).

Obviously, therefore, the immediate context in which na’ar is used will determine the maturity of the subject so designated.

Second, the young men of Bethel mocked Elisha. The Hebrew word qalas means to scoff at, ridicule, or scorn. The term does not suggest innocent conduct. Note the Lord’s comment elsewhere: “They mocked the messengers of God, and despised his words, and scoffed at his prophets, until the wrath of Jehovah arose against his people, till there was no remedy” (2 Chronicles 36:16).

Too, the expression, “Go up...Go up,” is held by many scholars to reflect the wish of these young men that the prophet go ahead and ascend (as did Elijah—2 Kings 2:11), i.e., leave the Earth, that they might be rid of him! Also, the taunt, “thou bald head,” was likely a reproach. Old Testament scholar John Whitcomb has suggested that this was an expression “of extreme contempt. They were pronouncing a divine curse upon him, for which baldness was often the outward sign (cf. Isaiah 3:17a,24)” (1971, p. 68).

Third, when it is said that Elisha “cursed them,” there is no implication of profanity (as our modern word suggests), nor was this a venting of passion for personal revenge. Holy men of God sometimes were empowered with divine authority to pronounce an impending judgment upon rebellious persons (cf. Genesis 9:25, 49:7, Deuteronomy 27:15ff., and Joshua 6:26). Christ uttered a curse upon the barren fig tree (Mark 11:21) as an object lesson of the doom that was to be visited upon Jerusalem. Also, it is stated clearly that Elisha’s curse upon them was “in the name of the Lord,” meaning by “divine appointment, inspiration, authority” (see Orr, 1956, 4:2112).

Fourth, the tragedy that befell these young men obviously was of divine design. Elisha, as a mere man, would have no power to call forth wild animals out of the woods merely at his bidding. But the sovereignty of Jehovah over the animal kingdom frequently is affirmed in the Scriptures. God sent fiery serpents to bite the Israelites (Numbers 21:6); the Lord slew a disobedient young prophet by means of a lion (1 Kings 13:24ff.); yet, He shut the lions’ mouths to protect Daniel (Daniel 6:22). He prepared a great fish to swallow Jonah (Jonah 1:17), and guided one to Peter’s hook (Matthew 17:24ff.). Clearly, therefore, it was Jehovah who brought those bears out of the forest.

Additionally, if, when the divine record says that the bears “tare” the lads, it means they were killed (and not all scholars are sure that death is indicated), then it was a divine punishment. As Alfred Edersheim has written: “[I]t should be noticed that it was not Elisha who slew those forty-two youths, but the Lord in His Providence, just as it had been Jehovah, not the prophet, who had healed the waters of Jericho” (n.d., 6:107).

It is the general view of conservative Bible scholars that the young men of Bethel likely were idolaters whose reproaches upon Elisha were expressions of contempt for his prophetic office, and thus, ultimately directed at the God Whom he served. Thus, their punishment was a divine judgment intended to serve as a dramatic example in horribly wicked times."

There you go, that is one answer.



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 09:41 AM
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a reply to: JUhrman

Thanks. I liked reading all your reflections here very much. You have a good way with relating to the source of creation.



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 09:44 AM
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a reply to: lonesomerimbaud

I definitely appreciate you taking the time to write that out...and its a good argument...but then what else is mistranslated in the bible? I have often heard arguments like this even among two Christians. I watched them argue over the hebrew translation and it ended in one christian tell the other that his church feels the grace of god more. Surely this was a rare incident but I found it interesting. There are a lot of translation issues and many are quick to point it out. So we have many bibles floating around with flawed translations.



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 09:47 AM
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a reply to: lonesomerimbaud

Thank you. It's not only mine, it's the one I learned from reading many modern and ancient theological and philosophical texts. I invent nothing new here.

It's just that for 99% of the people not familiar with religions, god always means an old bearded dude, when if you take the time to talk to educated priests, monks and other religious people, you'll see it's much more complex.

Even the previous pope who was quite conservative found the writing of Teilhard de Chardin very enlightening and in line with the modern views of the Church.

Religions can be misunderstood and used for manipulation or propagating ignorance and dogma, but at the heart, religions are social and cultural expression of personal spirituality.


It's a gross mistake to generalize all religious people as idiots and bigots. Many of them are extremely rational and liberal.

It's only ignorance that is keeping mankind in the dark, not the intellectual exploration of concepts such as god and creation.



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 09:47 AM
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a reply to: JUhrman

We agree then! I can surely get behind that there is a god...I am a man of science but one question that can't be answered is no matter how far back you go there has to be some variable we either don't understand or its god. Even if we were created by aliens you have to say what made the aliens...you can do this all the way back to the first life and say what created that. So I have no written god off I just don't believe there is a book on earth that has any idea what is really happening.

So with that argument i can agree with you that if god exists we are surely part of that god and then god did indeed create everything. But there is also no evidence of this either.

Sometimes I look at an ant and think "i could never make an ant understand calculus"....the same way humans may not have the brain capacity to understand where we came from.



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 09:53 AM
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a reply to: rockpaperhammock

You are most welcome.

I know it can be quite a mess the whole translation business.

It is good that in our time we can all examine the translations against the Hebrew and dig a bit deeper to get a better understanding.

The OT was for a more barbaric time. It is pretty hard going on our modern sensibilities. I've been just as outraged as you about certain aspects.

I would just say that there is nothing stupid in it. Sometimes certain aspects appear stupid, but on further analysis not so much. If the suits fits we can wear it. There is no force though to wear the suit.

I said before I am very modern and have no problem with people seeing the world in different ways. All the fun of the fair. I'm not God so I can't pretend to be able to answer on His behalf. The Bible is useful in terms of my continued survival on this earth in any kind of rational way, a survival tool. If it wasn't useful I would not use it or refer to it.

Good to communicate with you.



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 10:06 AM
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originally posted by: rockpaperhammock
So with that argument i can agree with you that if god exists we are surely part of that god and then god did indeed create everything. But there is also no evidence of this either.


I think we are arriving at the heart of the matter here.

That everything is created, and thus that the act of creation is unavoidable to understand the universe, is a fact we cannot deny. It is observable and everyday we see it unraveling before our eyes.

That the act of creation, of evolution, of differentiation happens also means there is a force, a drive, a tendency causing it.

When man creates, we call this force consciousness.

When animals create, we call this force instinct.

When plants create, we call this force genetic necessity.

When nature creates, we call this force the laws of physics.


We could make the hypothesis that all these forces are independent, but then we would still be at loss of explaining how each lower level managed to create the next one. How the laws of physics created genetic necessity, how genetic necessity created instinct, and how instinct created consciousness. And finally, how were the laws of physics were created in the first place.



Or we could make a bet, and claim that all these forces are facets of a singular force, that this singular force is permeating all matter, and was already permeating all matter even at the moment of the first differentiation, when the singularity became the big bang.

That this force has an origin and a direction. That this force is the reason behind all created forms, and the transitions between them.


We could call it god, or we could call it something else.


But what isn't necessary, is to attribute a consciousness similar to ours to its initial form when it was still within the singularity. No one can claim the initial creation was a conscious act similar to what we do when we create.

And yet, that force, the more it gets refined, the more it looks like higher and higher forms of consciousness, leading us and the universe who knows where, to even higher forms of consciousness.


All we can tell for sure, is that that force we could call god isn't a consciousness similar to us. It's changing, evolving and accelerating. We cannot pretend to comprehend it, but maybe we can learn to know it, to welcome it, and to follow it.
edit on 23-1-2015 by JUhrman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 10:13 AM
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originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: Shiloh7

Yes, everything that has ever existed and everything that ever will exist was created by God.


including evil in all of its incarnations?



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 11:14 AM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

Evil is a subjective quality, it has no existence outside of human consciousness. What we usually call evil are things we consider as going against the laws of human society.



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 11:30 AM
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a reply to: JUhrman

I assume when you mean vibration it is vibrating energy that oscillates in a medium.

There is many definitions of god. One is the definition of god being everything. Another god definition being the symbiotic part of the whole disconnecting from the ego predatory part of the whole.

I seek the symbiotic driven part (we can call it ONE) that do not want to dominate the rest with ego driven wants. From my point of view Jesus, Buddha, Nanak and Rumi was joining the symbiosis with the symbiotic part rejecting the ego predatory nature where you can be many parts but still be as ONE single whole. A body of awareness created by individual awareness that can connect and disconnect to each other.



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 11:47 AM
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originally posted by: JUhrman
a reply to: TzarChasm

Evil is a subjective quality, it has no existence outside of human consciousness. What we usually call evil are things we consider as going against the laws of human society.


But you can define objective symbiosis (service to all involved for the benefit of all)---neutral---ego predatory actions(service to few/one without concern for suffering caused to all) for all actions that are not subjective if you have all information on how an action changes the whole.

Death is not automatically evil in itself since it is a change from one form to another. Causing suffering to keep someone alive can sometimes be very selfish.
edit on 23-1-2015 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 12:18 PM
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I don't find any fault in the "God created everything" line of thought or belief. However, that's about as far as I go with organized religion. I find the majority of the Old Testament to be utter b.s. and I doubt "God" has paid much attention to Earth throughout it's history.

I just can't see "God" creating the vastness of the universe, and all of the additional galaxies and planets just to create Earth and humans, then say "Nailed it!" and calling it a day.



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 03:28 PM
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If God created everything then that means there is nothing that isn't God. Unfortunately Christians seem to think that God created everything but somehow still needs things. If God created everything and still needs something where the hell is he supposed to get it?



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 03:30 PM
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Including Satan, evil, sin, strife, pain, misery, grief, anger, hatred, war, famine....



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