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Critical Review of Giant Human Claims

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posted on Jan, 22 2015 @ 10:18 PM
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This thread is in response to the questions raised by BloodyDagger in the thread The Government Just Shutdown a Bigfoot Researcher.
As this discussion was trending away from the original topic, I have replied in this new thread.


BloodyDagger wrote:
How do you explain the double rows of teeth reported to be found on these giant skeletons over the years? That is a common theme with "Giant Skeletons" - Double rows of teeth.

One or two maybe a birth defect, sure. But not when its reported every single time a supposed giant skeleton is discovered somewhere. Not to mention, the double rows of teeth go all the way around. Its not just a doubled tooth here or there, its the entire set of teeth that is double rowed.



He then asked me to read the following links -
www.southmilwaukeenow.com...
“A Giant Mystery: 18 Strange Skeletons Found in Wisconsin: Sons of God; Men of Renown”

and

www.huffingtonpost.com...
“Did Giants Once Live In North America? Two Brothers Search For The Tall Truth”


Lets look at the first site – ”18 Strange Skeletons Found in Wisconsin,” by self proclaimed “Critical Thinker” Kristian T Harris.

Lets take a look at some of Kristian T Harris’ other recent headlines –

Bill Cooper Predicted 9/11 in June of 2001, Killed Shortly After
Autism Caused By MMR Vaccine says CDC Whistleblower
15,000 Aborted Babies used to Heat UK Hospital
Bizarre Skeletons Unearthed In Russian Mound, Satyr and Giant Horse
Harvard: Water Fluoridation is Causing Cognitive Disorders
The Origin of Giants in Human History
Mind Control Device Alters Emotions on Demand

And on and on it goes. One conspiracy nutcase story after the other. It’s on about the same level as The Weekly World News. And he has the nerve to describe himself as a critical thinker. This man clearly does not know the meaning of the term.

He uses this story to try and support his narrative, that stories of Biblical giants are factual, that 1000’s of finds have been discovered but since the 1950’s they are being suppressed by science.


Kristian T Harris’ report, is just a repost of a story by someone called Mark Shernick. If you search for Mark Shernick, the first link which pops up is the story “Did "Le Cercle" Kill Diana? “ from the site bibliotecapleyades.com – he seems to be a conspiracy theorist right up Kristian’s alley.

Anyway back to his story – 18 Strange Skeletons Found in Wisconsin.

If we look at Mark Shernick’s sources, there is only one contemporary source he uses for this story, the New York Times piece. Oh he refers to other, later works by other “researchers”, in addition to another article from a few years earlier, but there is only one report from 1912 he refers to. Let’s go straight to the horses mouth and take a look at this report -

Transcription –



STRANGE SKELETONS FOUND.
__
Indications That Tribe Hitherto Unknown Once Lived in Wisconsin.
Special to the New York Times.
MADISON, Wis., May 3.—The discovery of several skeletons of human beings while excavating a mound at Lake Delavan indicates that a heretofore unknown race of men once inhabited Southern Wisconsin. Information of the discovery was brought to Madison to-day by Maurice Morrissey, of Delavan, who came here to attend a meeting of the Republican State Central committee. Curator Charles E. Brown of the State Historical Museum will investigate the discoveries within a few days.
Upon opening one large mound at Lake Lawn farm, eighteen skeletons were discovered by the Phillips Brothers. The heads, presumably those of men, are much larger than the head of any race which inhabit America to-day. From directly over the eye sockets, the head slopes straight back and the nasal bones protrude far above the cheek bones. The jaw bones are long and pointed, bearing a minute resemblance to the head of the monkey. The teeth in the front of the jaw are regular molars.
There were also found in the mounds the skeletons, presumably of women, which had smaller heads, but were similar in facial characteristics. The skeletons were embedded in charcoal and covered over with layers of baked clay to shed water from the sepulcher.



As you can see there is no mention of giant skeletons. Large heads are mentioned in this particular report, but the “7-9 foot tall skeletons” or “enormous skeletons” claim is a latter embellishment. Shernick links directly to this article with the text “enormous size of the skeletons and elongated skulls”, but if one reads the text of the article clearly it does not say there were enormous skeletons.

Archeological anthropologist Andy White has looked at all the contemporary reports of this story in other publications and he can find no mention of this claim of giant skeletons which latter “researchers” made – see his article $502 Reward for Photographs of Lost Giants; the Skeletons from Delavan Wisconsin

There is also no mention of “double rows of teeth”. In this case there is only the mention of “The teeth in the front of the jaw are regular molars” made by Maurice Morrissey, an attorney, and apparently not someone with any real degree of anatomical training.

Most probably what he is describing here are worn incisor teeth.

The quality of journalism displayed by both Mark Shernick and Kristian Harris for this one story here is terrible, and I suspect it is highly typical of the standard of the other pieces.

Shernick and Harris ignore the fact that the article itself does not make the claims they are making about giant skeletons and double rows of teeth and instead put it into this category, they misrepresent it in order to make it fit their narrative.

Kristian Harris then goes on to mention a 2002 National Geographic story he says talks about a dozen 12-15 ft tall cyclops skulls found in Greece, but his link is struck through. Perhaps because someone in the comments section pointed out the Nat Geo story was in fact actively debunking this idea and it referred to elephant skulls, not humans and they were not real Cyclops at all, but merely had large holes in the skulls.

This is the type of thing Kristian Harris would try and pass off as truth – a load of baloney. He did not even bother to read the article he was using as a source for one of his wild claims.

He then goes on to claim the Wisconsin story is no hoax (based on what exactly?) and points to the other “dozens and dozens” of stories of giants found.

However, without any objective corroborating evidence, these claims are just anecdotes. They are no better than hearsay.

Is this Kristian Harris guy typical of the sort of people who are promoting these claims? I wonder..

To cap it off at the bottom of the article they post a picture of a known hoax, the San Diego giant picture. This giant was examined by the Smithsonian and a tissue sample turned out to be made of gelatine.

[CONTINUED NEXT POST]
edit on 22/1/2015 by ReturnofTheSonOfNothing because: fixed broken link




posted on Jan, 22 2015 @ 10:19 PM
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[CONTINUED]

Andy White also did a pretty conclusive debunking of the “Double Row of Teeth” claims made from 19th century reports, which by all accounts seem to be due to a misunderstanding of the language used in late 19th century accounts. “Double Tooth” was a common term for a molar, and “Double teeth all round”was commonly used to refer to individuals who had a full top and bottom set of teeth. You can read this here

Skeptoid’s Brian Dunning did an investigation into similar claims back in podcast #144 (see transcript and mp3 download link at The Case of the Strange Skulls), in which he continually pointed to the lack of any real evidence, and to the numerous hoaxes and exaggerated claims made in the 19th century and puts them into the context of the ‘carnival-like’ atmosphere at the time.

In conclusion there is simply no good evidence of these claims, and as such I cannot accept them as true based on this article by Kristian Harris. Furthermore the blatant misrepresentations exhibited and overall shoddy journalism and lack of critical thinking on display belie a conspiracy mindset intent on promoting his own agenda based on a personal belief in a literal interpretation of the Bible.

In a few days time I will take a look at the Huffington Post article, “Searching for Lost Giants”.

If I get time I will address similar questions put to me by FlySolo but I expect that by now other people will have challenged him on these claims.



posted on Jan, 22 2015 @ 11:36 PM
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Something to add to your repot.

Most of these (usually creationist sites) will use known photo shopped pics.

I'm too lazy to look it up, but some college had a photo shop project they gave their students . One of the students used pics of a archeology site and added massive human skeletons. Both before and after pics are available online. However that doesn't stop every creationist site I know of from having them on their home page lol.


Ok I got unlazy here's a link to the snopes on it.

www.snopes.com...


+7 more 
posted on Jan, 22 2015 @ 11:40 PM
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a reply to: ReturnofTheSonOfNothing


Lets take a look at some of Kristian T Harris’ other recent headlines –

Bill Cooper Predicted 9/11 in June of 2001, Killed Shortly After



William Milton Cooper did predict 9/11 and named Osama bin Laden as the boogeyman. He was assassinated by plain clothes law enforcement officers in an ambush on his own property for his truth work.




posted on Jan, 22 2015 @ 11:41 PM
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Worth 1000 has had multiple contests where these showed up. I enjoy the contests there and have noticed one of those images being used in a lie more than a time or three over the years.



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 02:44 AM
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another issue that proponents of " ancient giants " ignore is the inability to scale up the human template .

3m + humanoids [ based on the human template ] simply dont work physiologically



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 03:29 AM
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originally posted by: Sahabi
a reply to: ReturnofTheSonOfNothing


Lets take a look at some of Kristian T Harris’ other recent headlines –

Bill Cooper Predicted 9/11 in June of 2001, Killed Shortly After



William Milton Cooper did predict 9/11 and named Osama bin Laden as the boogeyman. He was assassinated by plain clothes law enforcement officers in an ambush on his own property for his truth work.




I think there is actually an argument to be made that he did predict 911, but that isn't quite as impressive as it sounds.

First of all even a broken clock is right twice a day. Have you read "Behold a Pale Horse"? Cooper threw out many, many predictions on all kind of things, pretty much all of which did not come to pass. Any good psychic worth his salt knows if you cast a wide net, you've got to catch something sooner or later, and then in hindsight you focus on the hits and ignore the misses.

Second, he predicted it in as much as OBL himself predicted it. Cooper referred to a CNN interview with OBL where OBL said he would attack America. However Cooper's conspiracy spin on that prediction was that the NWO would be behind the attack and blame OBL a for it. I know to true believers in the conspiracy theory that makes perfect sense, but the case for that interpretation of events has never been conclusively proven. Cooper did not say when it would be, he did not say it would be planes attacking the World Trade buildings etc. He just took the OBL interview and ran with it.

Third, the statement that Cooper was assassinated for this information does not hold up to any real scrutiny, and is not supported by the facts, IMO. Cooper was killed because he shot at law enforcement. When you shoot at law enforcement death is a predictable result.
edit on 23/1/2015 by ReturnofTheSonOfNothing because: ..



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 04:22 AM
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Fantastic thread. S&F, took me back to the old days of ATS, just smashed it with research. well done!



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 04:44 AM
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a reply to: ReturnofTheSonOfNothing

My brother,

I understand that this thread is about the folklore surrounding giants and the nephilim, and I feel as though I am drastically derailing this thread. However, you mentioned Bill Cooper in your opening post.

 



First of all even a broken clock is right twice a day. Have you read "Behold a Pale Horse"?


Yes, I've owned the book for several years now, and it is one of my favorites.

 



Cooper threw out many, many predictions on all kind of things, pretty much all of which did not come to pass.


He addressed this very issue in a live lecture. Cooper said that some of his verified government informants, of whom he stated their names, were purposely feeding him disinformation and misinformation along with actual truth. He apologized for putting full trust in the information of these double-agent government informants, and cleared the record of his unintentional presentation of the dis/mis information.

Besides that, "Behold a Pale Horse" contains explosive and verifiable information that was not publicly known at the time, such as propaganda indoctrination, the One World Government movement (Globalization/Transnationalism), the shadow government, the empowerment of FEMA through Presidential Executive Orders, the hidden tyranny of the Anti Drug-Abuse Act of 1988, engineered wars, false-flags, and more.


edit on 1/23/15 by Sahabi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 04:46 AM
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a reply to: ReturnofTheSonOfNothing


Third, the statement that Cooper was assassinated for this information does not hold up to any real scrutiny, and is not supported by the facts, IMO. Cooper was killed because he shot at law enforcement. When you shoot at law enforcement death is a predictable result.


Milton William Cooper had a federal-level target on his head!

"Milton William Cooper is the most dangerous man in America because of the issues he addresses on his radio show."
- Bill Clinton, 42nd U.S. President


William Cooper hosted his own radio broadcast called "The Hour Of The Time". He created the Citizen's Agency for Joint Intelligence (CAJI), which was the world's largest civilian intelligence organization. CAJI researches, gathers, and catalogues evidence and proof of all topics covered by Cooper and 'The Hour Of The Time' broadcast. William Cooper's motto was to "prove everything with facts", and CAJI aided in that cause. CAJI sought to collect relevant information and offer it to the public.

William Cooper also created the VERITAS News Service, which served as a full-size newspaper covering issues not reported by the mainstream media.

"We are in an information war and we are losing that war."
- Hilary Clinton


Former U.S. President Bill Clinton targeted William Cooper in part of a wider scandal now known as 'Filegate'. Filegate was a Clinton administration scandal involving the improper use of confidential information and illegal investigations on political opponents. The Firstlady was also implicated in the scandal. Attorney Larry Elliot Klayman has stated; "Hillary Clinton was the mastermind of Filegate."

William Cooper was harassed by the IRS for unvalidated accusations of tax evasion and bank fraud. Despite the harassment, no proof was presented and no charges were ever filed against Cooper by the IRS.

Failing to secure an indictment from the IRS, another plot was enacted to silence Cooper immediately after his Osama bin Laden false-flag scapegoat prediction.

According to John Doyle Shamley (one of Cooper's partners and current head of 'Hour Of The Time' and 'CAJI');
Dr. Scott Hamlin, who was known to harass Cooper, was trespassing on Cooper's property. William Cooper confronted Hamlin and ordered him off of the property or police would be called. It is alleged that Hamlin then notified authorities and reported that a man followed him, threatened him, and waved a gun at him while on Cooper's property. The event was never proved to have occurred, nor was Cooper verified as the purported gun-brandishing aggressor. However, law enforcement officials charged Cooper with Aggravated Assault and two counts of endangerment in relation to the alleged event. Ironically, coincidentally, or suspiciously, an initial arrest warrant was to be served to Cooper on the day of September 11, 2001.

Less than 2 months after the 9/11 attacks and predicting Osama as a false flag scapegoat, Milton William Cooper was killed at his home by plain-clothed officers after a brief gunfight. According to the documentary "William Cooper & His Death", the circumstances surrounding his death all but scream foul play.



November 5, 2001
That evening the Apache County Sheriff's Department would come to Bill's home at 11:15pm fully armed to serve a warrant for his arrest. The local Eager Police Department was not notified until after Bill was killed.



Shortly before midnight on November 5, 2001, plain clothes officers in an unmarked pickup truck lured Cooper from his home by creating a noisy commotion. William Cooper went outside and confronted the trespassers, who never identified themselves, to get them to leave the area. Upon heading back to his home, Cooper was almost plowed and ran off the road by another unmarked police vehicle. By the time Cooper neared his home, a third encounter with another deputy occurred when:


"At that point Sergeant Brown saw Cooper extend his right arm out of the driver's side open window as if he were surrendering."
- Arizona Department of Public Safety Investigative Report


Milton William Cooper was gunned down and killed in his front yard after authorities state that Cooper opened fire on them, shooting Deputy Robert Martinez in the head. John Doyel Shamley has illustrated how the orientation of Cooper's home and the trajectory of a bullet hole in a parked '58 Chevy made it impossible for Cooper to have shot Deputy Martinez.

The Truth About William Cooper and His Death



edit on 1/23/15 by Sahabi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 04:53 AM
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a reply to: ReturnofTheSonOfNothing

Whatever giant-like beast creature I witnessed definitely had double-rows of sharp teeth. It looked like it had WAY too many teeth and I had a great view of the whole creature (i was about 3 yards away on a clear moonlit night with snow on the ground for contrast).

Mine was 7 to 9 ft tall, back-bent legs like a canine, extremely thin and muscled, grey ashen skin, long red-brown bedraggled fur, and tall pointed anubis-like ears.

it pushed a car with 3 people in it 10in forward into the snow, trapping us. scariest night of my life.
edit on 23-1-2015 by rukia because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 04:56 AM
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yeah kinda funny this guy was targeted as he was and murdered yet you think he was a complete nutcase for his statements that were obviously accurate and threatening enough to get a president to comment on him personally.



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 04:59 AM
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a reply to: Sahabi

Please, if you want to have that discussion, start a new thread, I will not debate that here it is off topic.



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 05:03 AM
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a reply to: Sahabi

When you see an active and overt attempt to tarnish someones image and reputation, it is always worth a second look. Which incidentally is why I find Alex Jones to be the reverse or opposite Cooper. Notice no attempt by certain forces to shut him down huh.

Getting back to topic, I haven't the faintest idea if Giants are/were real. If I've learned nothing else in my short time here, is that many of the legends I heard as a child always seems to carry some truth, if only marginally. Personally, I would be surprised to learn that there are areas deep under our ocean that is habitable by land and if so, probably is. Does that make the possibilities of mermaids to exist? Hell if I know.


edit on 23-1-2015 by Rosinitiate because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 05:20 AM
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originally posted by: ReturnofTheSonOfNothing
a reply to: Sahabi

Please, if you want to have that discussion, start a new thread, I will not debate that here it is off topic.


Off topic? Your very first statement to defame Kristian T. Harris was a mention of William Cooper. If this is truly a thread based upon a "Critical Review" of information, then surely your mention of Cooper is fair game for critical review. It is, after all, your first "evidence" mentioned in the op.

However, I will digress to the topic of giants. Please share your refutations of William Cooper in my thread:
Founding Fathers of the Conspiracy and Truth Movement

In particular, these posts of the op: [1] and [2]


edit on 1/23/15 by Sahabi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 06:43 AM
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a reply to: ReturnofTheSonOfNothing

you started that topic, see this is just one reason you should refrain from ad-hominid attacks, if your going to attack a character based on prior claims they have made you must be prepared to have posters offering counter opinions, if you refuse to have counter opinions in your thread DO NOT START THAT DISCUSSION.

YOU brought up william cooper, the poster replying to that point is doing his due diligence to attempt to deny ignorance, if you dont want to discuss that topic in this thread dont mention that topic.

i could just as easily make all sorts of claims about how anyone you source has made proven false allegations in the past, and then tell you you CANNOT counter argue my points because its off topic,

its a cheap dirty rotten tactic dont dish it if you cant receive it.



the topic of a thread is not what the OP wills it to be, rather it is the content which the OP posts in the first post, william cooper is in your first post, therefore he is ON TOPIC. if you dont like that then you shouldnt have put him in your first post in this thread,

rather you should have put him in a follow up reply so we could have been the one telling you it is off topic, rather YOU MADE IT APART OF THE TOPIC!
edit on 1/23/15 by pryingopen3rdeye because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 06:56 AM
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originally posted by: Rosinitiate
a reply to: Sahabi

When you see an active and overt attempt to tarnish someones image and reputation, it is always worth a second look. Which incidentally is why I find Alex Jones to be the reverse or opposite Cooper. Notice no attempt by certain forces to shut him down huh.

Getting back to topic, I haven't the faintest idea if Giants are/were real. If I've learned nothing else in my short time here, is that many of the legends I heard as a child always seems to carry some truth, if only marginally. Personally, I would be surprised to learn that there are areas deep under our ocean that is habitable by land and if so, probably is. Does that make the possibilities of mermaids to exist? Hell if I know.



I have read a good deal of criticism focused on alternative archeological types and most of it is not scholarly at all. Most of it is straw man building and then setting it on fire. And once they set their sights on a target it really doesn't matter about credentials or anything. Same thing in the UFO debunking field.



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 07:03 AM
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a reply to: Logarock

i have read a great deal from the believers and proponents of " alternative " archeology - and little of it is scholarly , scientific or logical .

but hey if it flies counter to the " mainstream " it most have merit - right ??



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 11:48 AM
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I don't know whether gians existed here or not as I haven't really seen any evidence I would place my faith in.

However I think we should remember that throughout the ages, the catholic church has sent priests all round to world to grab anything that is a threat to its doctrines and position of power. They certainly grabbed all sorts of things that have probably never been seen and hopefully today, whatever is discovered they won't be able to spirit away.



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 01:03 PM
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originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
a reply to: Sahabi

When you see an active and overt attempt to tarnish someones image and reputation, it is always worth a second look. Which incidentally is why I find Alex Jones to be the reverse or opposite Cooper. Notice no attempt by certain forces to shut him down huh.

Getting back to topic, I haven't the faintest idea if Giants are/were real. If I've learned nothing else in my short time here, is that many of the legends I heard as a child always seems to carry some truth, if only marginally. Personally, I would be surprised to learn that there are areas deep under our ocean that is habitable by land and if so, probably is. Does that make the possibilities of mermaids to exist? Hell if I know.



I have read a good deal of criticism focused on alternative archeological types and most of it is not scholarly at all. Most of it is straw man building and then setting it on fire. And once they set their sights on a target it really doesn't matter about credentials or anything. Same thing in the UFO debunking field.


You are quite right however there are fakes and quackery out there. So much in fact, well, getting into it is another conspiracy in itself. A perfect example is Ms. Harris. In fact, nothing about her strikes me as a genuine researcher and if I were to guess, I'd suspect she is simply in it for the money. That said, she has offered such a wide range of topics and "stories" that there are plenty to chose from that have either be substantiated and/or have some merit of truth. Her sucking doesn't make the claims of giants true or false. Such claims have been made before she was born and I'd reckon after her death. To me, she is just irrelevant and offers nothing more than a faucet of truths, half-truths and outright lies. I don't think she can tell the difference either but I could be wrong.

edit on 23-1-2015 by Rosinitiate because: (no reason given)




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