Captive UAF colonel taken to Donetsk streets to show him the results of UA shelling [VIDEO]

a reply to: USXpat

Things like Euromaiden are prepared in advance with small cells consisting out of leaders who are lead secretly with the majority of the cell being clueless about it. Once those cells are becoming active and start with the protests, outside people fuelled by disgruntlement are joining them and that`s how those things are set in motion. The majority of the participants is clueless and have good intentions, and also their anger is justified...the sad thing is they don`t even know that they are being used at those times.

You point the finger directly towards the Separatists about the bombings but there are also simply forces in the Ukraine who are against the new Government.

Ukrainians are fools to think something like what has happened to Poland economically is going to happen tot them too, because there`s absolutely no comparison between the economic conditions of late 80s/early 90s and now. Europe isn`t waiting on Ukrainian products and has a much better change to being focused on a growth market. The "richer" EU counties aren`t going to play for Santa Claus anymore by providing work with building ghost airports, highways, subsidizing agriculture, etc...they are already very reluctant to give money now to the Ukraine, and don`t think that will change. And despite cooking the books, there`s also not enough work for them in the EU, expect short term backbreaking work.

But Putin crossed the line and continues to sprint into the uncharted wilderness of epic psychosis.

If he had done so, the World as we know wasn`t there anymore...if anything, the Russians have actual being very pragmatic about it up till now, but with the incredible stupid policies of the Western Governments in willing to stay hegemonic, you can only hope if they keep acting with more sense as to the West.

Maybe read some more about how the Western propaganda has been going all out instead of just swallowing it...

Russia In The Cross Hairs

CIA Asset News Reporter Admits All News is FAKE! Reporters are Bought Off!

And here`s some more to read for you...

Fight at Gunpoint

Resistance to New Wave of Ukraine Mobilization Has Already Begun

“Panic in Kiev: Ukrainian forces surrender Donbass”

Kiev has been going on with continuous shelling of civilians in the cities of Eastern Ukraine and the Separatists have gone on full offensive to drive them back now.

Western meddling with Ukraine has nothing to do with helping out ordinary Ukrainians, it`s just a play field for trying to control Russia in Eurasia and was never meant to bring prosperity to the Ukraine. And if the West is unable to control it by means of IMF loans, it gets trashed as usual...scorched earth policy.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
Things like Euromaiden are prepared in advance with small cells consisting out of leaders who are lead secretly with the majority of the cell being clueless about it. Once those cells are becoming active and start with the protests, outside people fuelled by disgruntlement are joining them and that`s how those things are set in motion. The majority of the participants is clueless and have good intentions, and also their anger is justified...the sad thing is they don`t even know that they are being used at those times.

Ah yes, the sad misled masses, unwittingly manipulated and cynically directed by a small core of "secret leaders" who use deceit and lies to control and use the common man. Oh, what fools. Oh, what a dastardly plan.

Or, another scenario being that...

Like may protests in history - a small demonstration captures the mood of the wider public and in a show of solidarity and shared cause, the small protest grows. In the case of Ukraine, the small protest against various discontents, such as corruption, authoritarianism and the scrapping of closer ties to Europe grew and grew. The tipping point being an attempt to impose some pretty harsh anti-demonstration laws by the (ahem) ex President. I mention this just in case memories are poor.

You can create any scenario and fantasy to explain why people protest, but sometimes they are not led and directed as you want to rationalise. In Ukraine's case, the reasons are quite clear and obvious and (I know it's a blow) but the Ukrainians are not remote controlled as you want to believe.

Anyway, what happened the ex President Yanukovych. Oh, yes. He fled to Russia. Do you think he had something to hide on the (er) corruption front? Corruption being one of the reasons people were protesting, by remote control or not.

Regards

a reply to: paraphi

Maybe you should see the video of AVoiceOfReason first over here (warning though, it might rock your believes)...

Ukrainian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine!

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Well, your thoughts are set in stone. I was pro-Putin up until December 2013. I was even trying to explain the Russian perspective to fellow expats through the annexation of Crimea. Russia does have legitimate issues as relates to western countries ignoring rule of law as relates to Libya, Pakistan, and Syria in the name of the "war on terror". These did involve violations of international law and should be addressed, but neither do two wrongs make a right.

And no, Euromaidan was not planned well in advance, because it was not expected that DCFTA would not be signed. It started as a spontaneous movement - and then other agencies who may well have been planning events well in advance moved in and capitalized on the situation. Still, that the Kremlin's representatives in Ukraine allowed that to happen demonstrates extreme incompetence on their part.

I'm here, established and have a direct pulse on what is going on relative to DCFTA and Ukraine-EU companies seeking to do business. No one misses an opportunity to expand their markets by 40 million. Ukraine's debt to GDP ratio is lower than most EU countries - you probably don't realize that. Aside from 2014, its economy was growing despite the drain by Naftogaz.

Relying upon Russian news agencies is... typical for anyone trying to support the separatists. Take a look at the OSCE reports. Those are the most neutral and fact-based reports available - and their reports slice in both directions, not just against Kyiv like the naive and gullible would like to think.

That the West wants a scorched earth policy as relates to controlling Russia is not consistent with all of the agreements, financial aid and investments that have been ongoing since 1991. Russia consistently breaks agreements whenever they want.

Your spite for the west is likely driving you to find some hope in Russia - and had it continued the agenda it had in 2013, it might have been successful in supplanting the US Dollar, the Federal Reserve and forcing everyone to the table to address rule of law issues. I hoped that was the case, but it gave up the high ground and can no longer receive the benefit of the doubt. Western practices have been bad, but Russian policies as of late have been far worse.

Until you know how an oligarch thinks, you really cannot appreciate how cannibalistic Russia is about to become. Seriously, it's giving up its doctors for more military equipment. Oh, isn't that wise?

a reply to: USXpat

Maybe first read up on The Grand Chessboard and US campaign behind the turmoil in Kiev

I'm here, established and have a direct pulse on what is going on relative to DCFTA and Ukraine-EU companies seeking to do business. No one misses an opportunity to expand their markets by 40 million. Ukraine's debt to GDP ratio is lower than most EU countries - you probably don't realize that. Aside from 2014, its economy was growing despite the drain by Naftogaz.

- It was an the brink of default when Euromaiden started

- And it still is, and unless Soros is successful in raising 15 Billion $ soon(which is highly doubtful), Ukraine is going to default. And those 15 billion $ won`t be enough in the long run either

- Sure, some EU countries have a few more consumers to offload some goods, but no one is interested in what Ukraine is going to export...or did you think, with the ever shrinking purchasing power of the average consumer in Europe, that the existing producers are going to give up an even bigger share to support the Ukraine, if so, the Southern Europeans wouldn`t be so disgruntled

- Ukraine was growing because it was tied to countries who are growing, and now it will be tied to countries who don`t grow anymore. Italy has lost over 25% of its industry since the crisis began and it`s still gone

- You grossly underestimate what the Eurasian market was doing for the growth of the Ukrainian economy

Western practices have been bad, but Russian policies as of late have been far worse.

Russia hasn`t much choice, it would all have happened to them anyway. Russia is actual being reasonably calm in its actions up until now. It has many options to hurt the West economically badly if it wants to.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I'm not here to argue or try to change your mind, only counter what I construed as BS. I've presented my points. You've presented yours. Readers interested can research these issues further and reach their own conclusions.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

You do realise that the Guardian article posted by you is 2004 and relates to the Orange Revolution. You are a decade out. Different time, but right place.

On the Ukrainian economy, which has been stifled by the limitations of linkage with Russia, we can look to other ex-Soviet vassal states for examples. Poland has benefitted from huge inward investment from the EU and has an increasingly diversified economy, with a GDP rate on a par with Russia and growing, where previously it was very much lower.

Ukraine, on the other hand depends - and is dependent - on Russia, with a out-dated economic model, poor inward investment and a GDP far below that of Poland - in fact seven times lower per capita.

In other words, Poland has benefitted from cutting ties with Russia. Ukrainians look to countries like Poland and wonder what the F*** has happened to constrain their own country since they became independent. What has happened is links to Russia and rife corruption.

Regards

a reply to: canucks555

did someone mention putin? why do you bring him up?

originally posted by: Patriotsrevenge

originally posted by: Dr0neT3k

originally posted by: SurrenderingAmerica
.* Let this stand as a reminder - - for those cheering on Kiev.

If rebels are fighting from those positions and shelling areas themselves, why would you think Ukraine night shoot back?

Because like Israel, people are not allowed to defend themselves anymore lol. Just another Pro Obama-Russia fanboy OP. Throw Logic and intelligence out the window when dealing with these types.

the Ukrainian army came to the east of Ukraine to defend themselves huh?

a reply to: USXpat

i think your pretty much as biased as ive ever seen a person be.

a reply to: paraphi

You do realise that the Guardian article posted by you is 2004 and relates to the Orange Revolution. You are a decade out. Different time, but right place.

Yes I do, it was to point out how long it has been in the working.

On the Ukrainian economy, which has been stifled by the limitations of linkage with Russia, we can look to other ex-Soviet vassal states for examples. Poland has benefitted from huge inward investment from the EU and has an increasingly diversified economy, with a GDP rate on a par with Russia and growing, where previously it was very much lower.

You`re pointing out the problem, Poland could profit from a growing EU/World economy something which isn`t going to happen for quite some time. It already has been warned that the citizens of the US and EU are in danger to go back to the 60s in purchasing power.

Ukraine, on the other hand depends - and is dependent - on Russia, with a out-dated economic model, poor inward investment and a GDP far below that of Poland - in fact seven times lower per capita.

More than 60% of Ukraine's exports go to other post-Soviet states, with Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan the most important.

...and it`s gone !

So they will be connected with a shrinking market which isn`t waiting for its products for decades to come, or they would have been connected with growing markets which wanted its products.

And EU isn`t going to hand out large sums of money anymore like it did with Poland, so together with with poor economic conditions in the EU for "the full grown" economies, Ukraine will not see a Poland 2.0.

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

Yes - when there are bombs going off on the street that I live on, which is well removed from Donetsk/Lugansk - I get pretty f'ing biased. Those arguing on behalf of the separatists and Russia seem to think that's normal and acceptable. I don't.

a reply to: USXpat

What do you think happens in Eastern Ukraine with the relentless shelling of the population?

"What comes around goes around."

I`m sorry to hear what has been brought up onto you by the Western engineered coup, but there`s a war in your country going on which can only be fought with Western funds (without them Ukraine wasn`t even able to continue with the fighting).

a reply to: USXpat

well seeing as odessa is quit a long way away from where any NAF troops are you might wanna think about whose setting those bombs off.

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason and to BornAgainAlien

Actually, we do know who a few of the bomb-makers were... were as in past tense, as in dead - two being from the Transdneistr Region. So, yes that has been considered. One blew himself up in the process of planting one bomb taking out part of a nearby tree; the other managed to get hit by a car after planting another. That's the official story.

I'm happy to live here regardless of the risks. Cheer the terrorists as you like.

We live in a world where picture or it didn't happen is an obsolete argument; just as even if you did see it doesn't necessarily mean what you saw was completely real. Just stating this as a contextual point that rational and logical discussion "today" requires digging deep enough to establish facts and interpret them objectively. That's not likely to happen on a forum, suffice that I made my points and you made yours - and those interested can research matters further if they choose to do so.

And with that, sorry gentlemen... or ladies.... or gender neutral beings - maybe we will meet on a different subject at a different time.

a reply to: USXpat

i have looked at things objectively. objectively the majority of the people of Donetsk and Lugansk want to get away from Ukraine. and objectively Ukraine is attacking them for this. sure you could say Ukraine is just doing what i can to protect its territorial integrity but as far as im concerned peoples lives and freedoms are more important than made up borders.

what ukraine has done to these so called terrorists is going to come back and bit them, they will most likely mobilize and take more land from ukraine. though i dont agree with such action, nor will i support them, i understand why this is the most likely outcome. whether or not it will happen remains to be seen.

they and russia both are in a position where they dont really have much to lose. ukraine should have left them in peace. but no they armed nazis and started waging an info war.

as for if the terrorist attacks had anything to do with the NAF or any of their assets is another matter. the whole thing with separatism is it doesn't take much organization. either way the worst is, most likely, yet to come.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

US campaign behind the turmoil in Kiev

So isn't it ironic that you have a problem with western media when it doesn't back your thinking, but as soon as it does you waste no time posting it as a source.

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

objectively the majority of the people of Donetsk and Lugansk want to get away from Ukraine. and objectively Ukraine is attacking them for this.

No Ukraine is attacking those who are maintaining an armed insurgency against the country of Ukraine.

As for them wanting to leave...seems they may have no choice but to stay part of Ukraine.

Seems Russia doesn't want them and says they should stay as part of Ukraine.

www.ibtimes.com...

Ukraine is just doing what i can to protect its territorial integrity but as far as im concerned peoples lives and freedoms are more important than made up borders.

Would those be the same borders that Russia recognizes as being the country of Ukraine?

they and russia both are in a position where they dont really have much to lose.

And what about the tanking economy, and losses with the Ruble, or are those not anything to worry about because they don't have much to lose?

ukraine should have left them in peace. but no they armed nazis and started waging an info war.

Except Ukraine was leaving them in peace until good ol' Vlad decided to play his games starting with Crimea, and still ongoing in the east. SO unless they back Russia they are considered NAzi's...Amazing.

And in case you forgot Russian Media has tried to wage an info war of monumental proportions...problem is they don't seem to be very good at it, and all the false and made up stories show that.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

i dont care about anything your saying. im tired of trying to counter your inane arguments just to watch you ramble off a list on twisted none sense.

people are dying, i care, you dont. ive come to terms with that. now leave me be.

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

What the former Soviet Union did to these former states is appalling and it's insanely understandable why they would be seeking the economic ties to the West and protective umbrella of Nato as many of these former Soviet states are still dealing with the emotional and economic scares of this former dictatorship.

More so called speaking Russian died under the Stalinist regime than Hitler ever did to the Jews (not condoning either by any stretch) and many Ukrainians, Georgians, Estonians, Polish. Lithuania and Latvia want absolutely nothing to do with this Russian strong arm. Hell, even Uzbekistan whom kicked the US out as even recently shifted back to the West and dropped their CSTO with Russia while Kazakhstan continues to sell Russia discounted oil and natural gas and allow for Russian business to thrive, they also support Western interest and at the behest of Moscow, allow NATO to run operations from here.