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The era of Aletheia, a place I would love to live in..

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posted on Jan, 26 2015 @ 05:45 PM
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a reply to: Crowdpsychology




Can you find the study made by the think tank?



Norman Dodd, former director of the Committee to Investigate Tax Exempt Foundations of the U.S. House of Representatives, testified that the Committee was invited to study the minutes of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace as part of the Committee's investigation. The Committee stated: "The trustees of the Foundation brought up a single question. If it is desirable to alter the life of an entire people, is there any means more efficient than war.... They discussed this question... for a year and came up with an answer: There are no known means more efficient than war, assuming the objective is altering the life of an entire people. That leads them to a question: How do we involve the United States in a war.


Here is a video where Norman Dodd spills everything. At about the 26min. mark he speaks about this:


I will be back later to give some New arguments.

edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 26 2015 @ 09:10 PM
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a reply to: spy66

I love it when a thread goes pear shaped.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 04:19 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: spy66

I love it when a thread goes pear shaped.


The reason why i brought up Norman Dodd is because it sort of Paints a Picture of what the road will look like for an idea to form a Aletheia society.

The People who made Our society the way it is today, did not do it through Peace. These People will not let go of their grand plan without a resistance. These People have all the doors to Our present society covered.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 07:32 AM
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originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: spy66

I love it when a thread goes pear shaped.


The reason why i brought up Norman Dodd is because it sort of Paints a Picture of what the road will look like for an idea to form a Aletheia society.

The People who made Our society the way it is today, did not do it through Peace. These People will not let go of their grand plan without a resistance. These People have all the doors to Our present society covered.



Exactly! That is why blood will be shed to create Aletheia. First, it must expose the secret societies that really run society by making all of their archives public. Fascism has always shed light on the enemies of the people: Bolsheviks and Jews in Germany, Socialists and Freemasons in Italy. Once these cancers are excised from society, the State can order society in accordance with reason and ethics. (Mussolini was very keen on ethics.)



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 09:34 AM
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a reply to: Crowdpsychology


I really don't see any connections between Aletheia and fascism, but your expertise can maybe help "us" with that. Here are some characteristics that defines fascism:


I realize that your challenge was not to me, but I can't help but respond. Here is what one political economics resource has to say about Fascism:


Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners. Where socialism nationalized property explicitly, fascism did so implicitly, by requiring owners to use their property in the “national interest”—that is, as the autocratic authority conceived it. (Nevertheless, a few industries were operated by the state.) Where socialism abolished all market relations outright, fascism left the appearance of market relations while planning all economic activities. Where socialism abolished money and prices, fascism controlled the monetary system and set all prices and wages politically. In doing all this, fascism denatured the marketplace. Entrepreneurship was abolished. State ministries, rather than consumers, determined what was produced and under what conditions.


Library of Economics and Liberty[Emphasis mine. --DJW001]

So, right off the bat, you say:


The following fields of research must be owned by the government and every study shall be voted upon before further work by citizens of the society;

- Genetic engineering; animals, humans, crops
- Geo engineering.
- Cloning; animals, humans
- Cognitive science; cognitive enhancement, mapping of the brain.
- Space exploration.


And, later:


Your salary shall be equal to the amount of work hours you put in. The salary gap between professions and titles within companies shall be drastically tightened. There shall also be a max ceiling on what a vd, boss and employee can earn in a particular field of work.


This sure sounds like an attempt to control the economy politically. Of course, you do say that every study would be voted on before further work by citizens of the society. It is not entirely clear whether this means that the citizens will vote before the government proceeds further, or if a vote is necessary for citizens of the society to further the work. Either way, work has been done before the studies are submitted to the public for ratification. In other words, the government can initiate anything it wants, and only submit it to a vote if it wants to devolve it onto the private sector.

As an exercise, interested readers should try reading about Aletheia substituting the word "State" for "government " and "society" where they appear in the thread, and "the Party" for the word "committee." Note that the ten year prohibition on serving in office can be circumvented simply by changing offices without leaving power, as Putin did in Russia, that fine example of a contemporary Fascist state.
edit on 27-1-2015 by DJW001 because: Edit to correct formatting.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 03:34 PM
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I understand that many people have cynical and unilateral views on these matters. Lack of human interaction, dystopian outlook based on our current society/situation and the feeling of learned helplessness can easily give people a single-minded view and a lacking ability to see the good/possible aspects that is present. The fact of the matter is, there are still a lot of good aspects remaining and even if a hidden power want us to believe that citizens are unpredictable and liable for the bad things in this world we still have the possibility to examine these claims and realize that it's far from the truth. It is important for the human race to understand this if we want to keep the good aspects and especially making them grow, and for this to happen we as citizens of this earth need to take actions against the few and greedy who secretly have dictated their way through our history. I also understand why some of you automatically say the society of Aletheia is fascist even though nothing supports your claim. This one-sided mindset is a result of the ”history" the institutions have/are presenting to the public and it derives from the old and misinterpreted view about collectivism and the battle between the blue and red side. In other words, a very unilateral view without gradations presented to you by the few and greedy. This view and the propaganda that comes with it, is used to steer the population too goals tailored by people who controls the state, goals the citizens have little to say about because they can’t base their belief on the real situation and facts.


"There are two main objections to collectivism from the ideas of individualism. One is that collectivism stifles individuality and diversity by insisting upon a common social identity, such as nationalism or some other group focus. The other is that collectivism is linked to statism and the diminution of freedom when political authority is used to advance collectivist goals"


The fabric I have described regarding Aletheia are in some ways based on horizontal collectivism which represent equality. The national and global voting with full transparency is a clear sign for this as well as the decentralization of our current political fabric, laws, economics, technology and military complex. Every individual should have a saying in these matters because they are the ones operating and living by them. Its important to understand that just because the society in some ways are based on horizontal collectivism doesn’t mean individuals have to lose their sense of self-actualization. Balanced wages, ceilings on wealth/companies will all make the self-actualization process for individuals and companies more viable. Bottom line is, the state can’t tell citizens what to do or how to think, this is up to every individual to decide for themselves backed by laws they themselves voted upon.

The thing Norman Dodd is talking about are the footprints that has led up to our current society and thats why we have seen so many fabricated wars and conflicts in the past 100 years. He also points out how secret societies and institutions have contributed to our current faulty system. One of the aspects that effected the AHA study in 1920 was the ending of WWI and the notion of collectiveness as a tool to create something new and better based on "the time of change and rebirth” mindset that came out of the horrible war that ended two years earlier. To bad this study never was presented to the congress and public.


"We are now at the year nineteen hundred and eight, which was the year that the Carnegie Foundation began operations. And, in that year, the trustees meeting, for the first time, raised a specific question, which they discussed throughout the balance of the year, in a very learned fashion. And the question is this: Is there any means known more effective than war, assuming you wish to alter the life of an entire people? And they conclude that, no more effective means to that end is known to humanity, than war. So then, in 1909, they raise the second question, and discuss it, namely, how do we involve the United States in a war?"


I absolutely believe that war is Not the only way of altering the life of an entire population, and I also think the specific question they used is biased when assuming war is one of the ways to begin with. I believe that transparency and knowledgeable information about the human race, how our world has operated in the past and how we can make our world a better place is a way of collectively getting together and alter the fabric of our society. In other words, a global change without war, threats and killing. Remember, this study was made in 1908, a time filled with fear and conflicts and this global urge for power soon boiled up to WWI which resulted in over 16 million casualties.

The study Carnegie Foundation ordered included empirical evidence from the last 50 years (1850-1900) and based on that information they concluded that there was no more effective mean to alter a population than war. This answer is logic based on the way they defined the question and the history they used. www.historyofwar.org...

I believe that another factor behind the conclusion was the lack of information the public had access to at the time. The radio had just been introduced but it was not located in every home. There was no television and newspapers was not aimed at every individual. And on top of that, the information the citizen was presented with was far from objective because the majority of newspapers was owned by politicians and bankers.

The internet is the ultra rich people's achilles heel, and that’s the reason behind all the recent hype regarding net neutrality and censorship. They want to control the vast network of information on the web, because they know this information will make their agendas harder to inflict upon us when we know more about the situation than we should. This is also the reasons behind the creation of the American Historical Association, it's a instrument for deception and control over the populations belief system. We see the effects of this today in our faulting educational system, because they want the population to be dumb and uninformed due to the fact that individuals are more easily scared and moldable in this state.

This is the main reason behind full transparency in Aletheia and a ”world database”. A place to search for your own answers instead of settle with a book someone else ordered you to read.

If twenty top historians on this planet made a similar study today with the same question behind it: "Is there any means known more effective than war, assuming you wish to alter the life of an entire people?” or with a more impartial question; ”What is the most humane and effective way of altering the life of an entire people?” I guarantee they would come up with a different answer than just war. I bet they would conclude that the keystones behind altering a entire population to the better is through; Truthful fast/accessible information, full transparency into government, companies and historical documents and more balanced wealth/living conditions for the entire population. This study should preferably contain empirical evidence from the past 200 years.



posted on Jan, 27 2015 @ 03:47 PM
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a reply to: Crowdpsychology

A lot of euphemism for Fascism in that post, and an insinuation that learning from the historical record is somehow cynical and bad. Shall I continue with an exposition about how your ideal society is necessarily a surveillance state?



posted on Jan, 28 2015 @ 05:48 AM
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a reply to: Crowdpsychology


This is the main reason behind full transparency in Aletheia and a ”world database”. A place to search for your own answers instead of settle with a book someone else ordered you to read.


Talk about cynical! Was your educational experience that traumatic that you were not permitted to read anything outside the syllabus? No wonder you have such a bleak, totalitarian outlook; it is apparently the only thing you have experienced!

As I have already pointed out, your "world database" already exists; it is called "the internet." As I have also already pointed out, the problem is not access to data, it is the ability to turn that data into information, and then decide whether that information is valid, then create a mental model based on that information and, having formulated a strategy that uses that model to achieve one's personal goals, having the discipline to follow that strategy while retaining the flexibility to change the strategy in the light of new information.

In other words, your "world database," like the internet is useless without the ability to think critically. In fact, without this ability, the internet is potentially harmful, as the scam artists so beloved in certain of these forums demonstrate! The most important function of a society that empowers individual liberty is therefore education, not in the sense of providing vast amounts of "data," but in providing the tools necessary for an individual to make sense of it.

Your "world database," in practice, would simply be another aspect of your surveillance state, as what you call "archives" are little more than repositories of personal information, which could be accessed by people who do not understand the context. What if I were in a "Hellfire Club" in college, a harmless convivial society that spiced up our symposia with blasphemous toasts and bawdy humor? What might someone think? Can you not see the potential for blackmail?

On the one hand, you claim to have a positive view of human nature, yet your whole Aletheian society is designed to prevent or punish greed, ambition and corruption! To do this, you empower the State to seize personal wealth, limit personal expression (if the State deems it to be "propaganda"), remove people from their gainful employment and deny inventors and creative people from profiting from their labor!

Is Aletheia really a place you would like to live?



posted on May, 7 2015 @ 08:47 PM
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a reply to: Crowdpsychology

Oh dear... Brave New World without any Soma to digest.



This society should represent: love, transparency, security, opportunity and growth.

I appreciate your inspirations for this thread and would like to applaude everybody who contributed. This kind of stuff has to be discussed way more often if you ask me for my part.

But... the name sucks, as already has been mentioned, and this utopia would be flawed due to some basic factors: nobody trusts the government anymore, really! Let's just forget about any approach from this more autocratic direction, foreverever... please! It's simply expendable at some point in our evolution, and we are nearly there.
Mutual trust is lost and has to be found anew, let it thrive and prosper between people. Us people. No matter who we are, what kind of dayjob we do or socks we wear, if we do. We are worldcitizens and should start to act like some grown up's by now. We could be the world government without any need for actually building one, just give us open source for everything and a secure connection to contribute even online for votings etc.
We've seen progress regarding more direct forms of democracy, just give them a try - let the people decide. There is no more need for henchmen nor drama-queens who have only "our best" in mind, even if they would really do so. We may appreciate a good advice from time to time, but the choice has to be ours. All the time. If well educated people enjoy themselfes, without any distress whatsoever, they usually tend to make extremely good choices. Even altruisim is a gift everybody is born with, we maybe just need to chill out and listen to Bob Marley to build the perfect world, simply by creating our own personal universes we would love to live in. 24/7 once and for all, gimme real freedom.
Heck... where is the free salary for every human beeing on this blue marble? We are too big to fail, are we not?

Blue Marble would be a marblelous name btw, wouldn't it?


Open source in regards to revolutionary potential:


The open source revolution is coming and it will conquer the 1% - ex CIA spy

www.theguardian.com...

Hopefully it does, maybe even soon enough.
edit on 7-5-2015 by PublicOpinion because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2015 @ 04:06 PM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion



I appreciate your inspiration for this thread and would like to applaude everybody who contributed. This kind of stuff has to be discussed way more often if you ask me for my part.


And I appreciate you applauds, but I wouldn’t give any real attention to some of the ”members” participating in this thread, members who solely seek to ridicule a noble cause while applauding the totalitarian state we are living in at this moment. They call Aletheia fascist, when there is nothing to support their claim and while the state we are living in is more fascist than ever. But then again, many people are close minded and heavily influenced by cognitive bias.



But... the name sucks, as already has been mentioned, and this utopia would be flawed due to some basic factors: nobody trusts the government anymore, really! Let's just forget about any approach from this more autocratic direction, foreverever... please! It's simply expendable at some point in our evolution, and we are nearly there.


Why is the name not appropriate? Not that is matters to the society or the structure of it, but I chose it for a reason, that being its definition: "unclosedness", "unconcealedness", "disclosure" or ”truth”
What would be a better name based on the cornerstones, and why?

I understand what you mean, and it’s true. But I do believe that if we implemented the laws I stated in this society and when we as citizens are above the politicians and government, and when the government solely work for the citizens with full transparency, we can once again start to trust in a organizing organ that sees that rules, laws, goals are achieved.

I genuinely believe that the people of this earth need to have some sort of government to organize all the matters which the citizens voted upon, want to change, etc. Sure it would be nice to just live like the indians did, chill around and swap merchandises. But the fact of the matter is, if we as humans want to strive and achieve more than we could have hoped fore, we need a organizing structure. This doesn’t contradict freedom, privacy transparency, well being of every soul - it only makes sure the goals the citizens deem important are actually worked at and later implemented.

If nobody trusts government, and if the notion of it is expandable as you put it.. Then what is the solution that the majority of people will believe in, which will help the human race strive?



Mutual trust is lost and has to be found anew, let it thrive and prosper between people. Us people. No matter who we are, what kind of dayjob we do or socks we wear, if we do. We are worldcitizens and should start to act like some grown up's by now. We could be the world government without any need for actually building one, just give us open source for everything and a secure connection to contribute even online for votings etc.


I’m with you on that, and thats basically what I have described. That every soul on this planet should be involved, feel needed and participate in the striving of the human race. But don’t you think that some sort of ”government” is needed to steer the people towards common goals (goals they themselves voted upon) and to be representatives for the different causes we citizens voted upon? The government/politicians will be as equal as ordinary Joe’s if not less. The people who feel obligated to seek these jobs do it based on genuine love for the society and the striving factor for the human race. They take the job because they feel they can contribute to make it all better, and they know that they will earn almost the same as every other person on the planet while everything they say in meetings, protocols, papers, etc is a mouse click away from all other citizens. Hence the full transparency into government and companies.



We've seen progress regarding more direct forms of democracy, just give them a try - let the people decide. There is no more need for henchmen nor drama-queens who have only "our best" in mind, even if they would really do so. We may appreciate a good advice from time to time, but the choice has to be ours. All the time. If well educated people enjoy themselfes, without any distress whatsoever, they usually tend to make extremely good choices. Even altruisim is a gift everybody is born with, we maybe just need to chill out and listen to Bob Marley to build the perfect world, simply by creating our own personal universes we would love to live in. 24/7 once and for all, gimme real freedom. Heck... where is the free salary for every human beeing on this blue marble? We are too big to fail, are we not?

Blue Marble would be a marblelous name btw, wouldn't it?


The problem with ”democracy” and yes I put it in quotations based on the fact that the main priceable of democracy is that everybody have a saying in the matter. Thats unfortunately all gone today. Elections are rigged, either by vote suppression, manipulation of electronic votes, bribing voters, fake voters, etc. On top of that the candidates enrolled in campaigns are backed by very greedy corporations which solely contribute with millions of dollars because they know that if the candidate win, they themselves will be the winner in the hidden ”special interest” game. The "good advices" you are insinuating is nothing more than paid causes which the corrupt politicians force upon us. It’s almost laudable today, because they systematically ignore the important and sensitive matters while happily enroll in the matters that the media is hyping. Matters which have been voted upon by a selected few.

Altruisim is one of the things that will change the meaning of money from - something you need, something to strive for - to something that is necessary for the society/world to function. The notion of the well being of all, and a striving to make/do better in the world as well as a more even wealth and salaries will reduce our differences and enable us to come together for the greater good.

Like I said before I genuinely believe that our world, based on the state that is has been in and based on the state it is in at the moment need a continued government. But like I also said, this government should not work/be/behave anything like the ones we have now. Full transparency, same pay for the government jobs to make sure knowledgeable people with a genuine feeling of improvement are voted in, banning of secret organizations/groups, a ”world database” so citizens can look up the real and unbiased truth regarding matter, national and global voting, high penalty for corruption, make nations work together too overcome poverty, homelessness and hunger…
edit on 8-5-2015 by Crowdpsychology because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-5-2015 by Crowdpsychology because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2015 @ 04:24 PM
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a reply to: Crowdpsychology


And I appreciate you applauds, but I wouldn’t give any real attention to some of the ”members” participating in this thread, members who solely seek to ridicule a noble cause while applauding the totalitarian state we are living in at this moment. They call Aletheia fascist, when there is nothing to support their claim and while the state we are living in is more fascist than ever. But then again, many people are close minded and heavily influenced by cognitive bias.


I have explained at length why your ideal state is Fascist. Your attempt to attack me indicates how dissent would be treated in your totalitarian prison state: declare dissenters guilty of "cognitive bias" and lock them up in a mental ward... the way the Soviets used to do.

I think you need to read this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I would be curious to see your reaction.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 09:29 AM
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a reply to: DJW001



I have explained at length why your ideal state is Fascist. Your attempt to attack me indicates how dissent would be treated in your totalitarian prison state: declare dissenters guilty of "cognitive bias" and lock them up in a mental ward... the way the Soviets used to do.

I think you need to read this thread: www.abovetopsecret.com
I would be curious to see your reaction.


Unfortunately you haven't explained anything, and thats why I wrote the things I did to PublicOpinion and the fact that you felt obligated to contradict my statement shows that you know exactly what you are and what you are doing. I would love to read your thread if I were oblivious to who you are and how you operate as a person. But unfortunately I know exactly what you are, and therefore I will not wast one second reading something you created if I don’t ”have to"

I have time after time told you and (yourself) or pals that this society is something everyone who is participating in this thread should try to make better. But you have solely twisted words, made silly assumptions based on nothing and ridiculed a good cause. You haven't contributed with one single piece of information that would make the society better. And for that I feel sorry for you and your soul.

How can my behaviour, whatever it might be, be a sign for how the society of Aletheia will treat it's citizens when the society and surrounding laws are voted upon by all citizens? Do you see how utterly illogic and pathetic your derailing tactic is, or are you oblivious to this fact?

You do however display a great amount of cognitive bias when automatically and ignorantly linking collectivism and the society of Aletheia to all the bad examples in history regarding, Fascism, Stalinism etc. If this bias is genuine and derives from your own mind or called upon by foreign suggestion, I do not know. But the fact that you are ignoring the overwhelming fascist and totalitarian aspects in our current society and actively accusing a more humane structure and cause is in it self explainable.

3 months ago I dared you and your entourage to draw parallels between the 14 characteristic points of fascism and Aletheia, but guess what, I don’t see any "explained" statements from you nor other. But feel free to try, and like I said to the previous member, take your time… www.rense.com...

All I see in you is a suspicious member who actively derail/ridicule/ sensitive threads and spread misinformation on this forum. Everbody can make silly assumptions, twist words and make illogical questions without follow up, but it takes more intelligence and intellect to actually come up with solutions, something you have never done in all the threads I have seen you in. And the fact that you almost instantly make a reply on a comment that didn't even include you 3 months after your last comment is also self explainable.

Lastly I want to thank you..

I know that a ordinary person wouldn't give such energy and time into ridiculing a good cause while happily embracing our current corrupt and totalitarian society, If the person didn't have a hidden agenda. You and other members in this thread have not only showed me, you have also showed everyone else who read this thread how important this question is, and that we as citizens need to change our current system. And for that I want to thank you.

I dare you to come up with some additional improving suggestions and/or better structural solutions to the society of Aletheia. Like I have stated over and over, everyone who participate in this thread should put their energy into making the society better. But after making your 19 spamming posts so far in this thread you haven’t made one single effort to make anything better, and that is awfully sad.

Have a awesome Saturday, and please eat a HFA issued waffle for me.



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 10:11 AM
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a reply to: Crowdpsychology


Unfortunately you haven't explained anything, and thats why I wrote the things I did to PublicOpinion and the fact that you felt obligated to contradict my statement shows that you know exactly what you are and what you are doing. I would love to read your thread if I were oblivious to who you are and how you operate as a person. But unfortunately I know exactly what you are, and therefore I will not wast one second reading something you created if I don’t ”have to"


As Mayor Koch once said: "I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you." Yolu seem to know a whole lot about me as a person, even before we began to exchange views. You have consistently characterized me as being somehow mentally deficient, and now the implication is that I am somehow evil. Is that how you intend to deal with dissent in your society? Personal attacks rather than reasoned discussion?


I have time after time told you and (yourself) or pals that this society is something everyone who is participating in this thread should try to make better. But you have solely twisted words, made silly assumptions based on nothing and ridiculed a good cause. You haven't contributed with one single piece of information that would make the society better. And for that I feel sorry for you and your soul.


No you don't. You are now attempting to couple self righteous religiosity to your ad hominem attack. Where do I make silly assumptions? AS for contributing information to make society better, that is all I have done! I have spoken out against your plans to seize private property. I have denounced your intention to make the product of intellectual labor a monopoly of the State. I have exposed how your society would violate the right to privacy in the name of "transparency," and now you demonstrate how free though would be received: personal attacks coupled with hypocritical pity.


How can my behaviour, whatever it might be, be a sign for how the society of Aletheia will treat it's citizens when the society and surrounding laws are voted upon by all citizens? Do you see how utterly illogic and pathetic your derailing tactic is, or are you oblivious to this fact?


Because you cannot help but reveal yourself. Your rhetoric sounds benign, but when the ramifications of your philosophy are explored, they contradict what you claim are your goals. You keep saying that the "society and surrounding laws are voted on by all its citizens," and yet, here we are, a thread with a population of four, three fourths of which is openly opposed to your false Utopia, yet rather than admit maybe you're on the wrong track, you hurl accusations against all the other citizens! Think about it. You want your rules and your laws to be observed by society, and, apparently, anyone who does not vote the way you want is not worth listening to because they are "pitiable" and "pathetic" and therefore probably not worthy to be counted as citizens.


You do however display a great amount of cognitive bias when automatically and ignorantly linking collectivism and the society of Aletheia to all the bad examples in history regarding, Fascism, Stalinism etc. If this bias is genuine and derives from your own mind or called upon by foreign suggestion, I do not know. But the fact that you are ignoring the overwhelming fascist and totalitarian aspects in our current society and actively accusing a more humane structure and cause is in it self explainable.


Why did you choose the handle "crowdpsychology?" Do you believe that individual personality gets subsumed when it is in the presence of other human beings? That it is somehow possible to manipulate individuals into believing things, and doing things they otherwise might not do by the application of psychological pressure en mass? That's what earlier totalitarian experiments assumed.

I am very sorry if you cannot see the value of learning from history. They say that repeating the same actions and expecting a different result is the definition of madness.



All I see in you is a suspicious member who actively derail/ridicule/ sensitive threads and spread misinformation on this forum. Everbody can make silly assumptions, twist words and make illogical questions without follow up, but it takes more intelligence and intellect to actually come up with solutions, something you have never done in all the threads I have seen you in. And the fact that you almost instantly make a reply on a comment that didn't even include you 3 months after your last comment is also self explainable.


Could you provide an example of misinformation I have spread on this thread? I agree that everyone can make silly assumptions, twist words and make illogical statements... even you. I have shown you time and again where you have done that in this thread. You have never shown me where I have done it. All you do is make condescending personal attacks when you cannot counter a logical argument. As for improving society, I think that standing up for free speech, intellectual property rights, the right to privacy, freedom of association and well regulated free trade is a good start... all of which I have championed in this very thread. (It would help if you actually read what other people wrote instead of automatically attacking them.)

As for responding three months after my last comment: did you know on "MyATS," there is a list of threads you have participated in? And when someone posts a new response that thread jumps to the top? I responded because the thread jumped to the top. Why did you respond?


Lastly I want to thank you..


You're welcome.


I know that a ordinary person wouldn't give such energy and time into ridiculing a good cause while happily embracing our current corrupt and totalitarian society, If the person didn't have a hidden agenda. You and other members in this thread have not only showed me, you have also showed everyone else who read this thread how important this question is, and that we as citizens need to change our current system. And for that I want to thank you.


How ironic! You are still trying to pretend that I have been defending totalitarianism, when you are the one singing the praise of a panopticon society. (Oh, and I just love the way you hint that everyone who disagrees with you is some sort of paid disinformation agent!)


I dare you to come up with some additional improving suggestions and/or better structural solutions to the society of Aletheia. Like I have stated over and over, everyone who participate in this thread should put their energy into making the society better. But after making your 19 spamming posts so far in this thread you haven’t made one single effort to make anything better, and that is awfully sad.


Once again, here we go:

Intellectual property should not be forfeit to the State. Privacy should be respected. Trade should be regulated, not controlled. Scientists should be free to research.



edit on 9-5-2015 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2015 @ 10:20 AM
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a reply to: Crowdpsychology


3 months ago I dared you and your entourage to draw parallels between the 14 characteristic points of fascism and Aletheia, but guess what, I don’t see any "explained" statements from you nor other. But feel free to try, and like I said to the previous member, take your time… www.rense.com...


What part of a State monopoly on intellectual property, the power of the State to seize and redistribute wealth, the power of the State to access confidential records and publish them against the wishes of the individuals, the arrogation to the State the power to determine which members of society are valuable, the power of the State to determine what occupation an individual may or may not pursue do you not understand? I have pointed all of these out to you yet you flatly refuse to acknowledge that your Utopian rules and laws all devolve into State control over the individual, and your behavior makes clear that citizenship is subject to accepting your rules. Only people who agree with you get to make the rules. What system is that again?



posted on May, 12 2015 @ 07:00 PM
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a reply to: Crowdpsychology

Haha, I really like the way you think!



And I appreciate you applauds, but I wouldn’t give any real attention to some of the ”members” participating in this thread, members who solely seek to ridicule a noble cause while applauding the totalitarian state we are living in at this moment. They call Aletheia fascist, when there is nothing to support their claim and while the state we are living in is more fascist than ever. But then again, many people are close minded and heavily influenced by cognitive bias.


And I would like to mention this may be the people you should care about mostly. On the first hand they offered other ways to Rome, literally, and on second thought I think you just may have to dismantle their concerns to achieve success realising your utopia, just because your cause managed to transform itself to be ours as well, instantly.
But Aletheia... sounds more like ale with theia to me, we could use some better marketing on this utopia.



Anyway, history illustrated again and again that power will be misused. Always. Decentralize power and give us free education for everything and we would be able to manage our stuff alone pretty soon. Heck... what could get wrong anyway? We already should be considered an endagered species due to our own failures.

www.nature.com...

Every single piece of myself would block any nany-state-efforts reflexively. Actually I believe governments depict just another power-structure, that has proven to be deeply flawed due to it's process of personalisation. Consider us to be at some point, where even corporations achieved personal rights without any responsibilities.

www.youtube.com...

And in regards to responsibleness, trancparancy could even hamper progress after all. People may be afraid to loose their position due to a mistake. But I would rather like to life in a society, that is actually able to embrace mistakes as essential part of our personal evolution.

Sure... we may need a new canon of values, maybe even a paradigm-shift to a more suitable lifestyle as part of this blue marble. Native Americans may not be the best example, I thought about the spanish communist communities during their civil war. They worked out so fantastically well on many occasions that their concepts proved to be more than just usefull again, even today.

libcom.org...
www.theguardian.com...
www.bbc.com...



I’m with you on that, and thats basically what I have described. That every soul on this planet should be involved, feel needed and participate in the striving of the human race. But don’t you think that some sort of ”government” is needed to steer the people towards common goals (goals they themselves voted upon) and to be representatives for the different causes we citizens voted upon?


Actually I really think we would be better off without giving away too much power, people usually work together. It's profitable in many ways. We just need a new take on values, so lets put our heads together. Spain could be everywhere, literally. It's not that I think we shouldn't have any gov. at all, but we could most def. use some more "checks and balances".

„Todo para todos, nada para nosotros!” (Everything for everybody, nothing for us)

Zapatistas, unite!


edit on 12-5-2015 by PublicOpinion because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 13 2015 @ 10:16 AM
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a reply to: DJW001


No you don't. You are now attempting to couple self righteous religiosity to your ad hominem attack. Where do I make silly assumptions? AS for contributing information to make society better, that is all I have done! I have spoken out against your plans to seize private property. I have denounced your intention to make the product of intellectual labor a monopoly of the State. I have exposed how your society would violate the right to privacy in the name of "transparency," and now you demonstrate how free though would be received: personal attacks coupled with hypocritical pity.


Crowd just stated his thoughts and provided informations on the matter at hand. I can understand your problems with any form of eco-dictatorship as I can understand his concerns with your contribution to this thread, which seems to me a bit harsh after all.
You may speak out against attemts to seize property but you didn't realise our need to do so, as a human race. You decided to speak out against any monopoly of state but failed to adress tho monopoly of markets, as you lack any basic understanding of recent problems with our personal rights. Now go to your freedom of speech corner and rant about the perfect world we live in, nobody would even dare to listen for another second. It's just pathetic.



Why did you choose the handle "crowdpsychology?" Do you believe that individual personality gets subsumed when it is in the presence of other human beings? That it is somehow possible to manipulate individuals into believing things, and doing things they otherwise might not do by the application of psychological pressure en mass? That's what earlier totalitarian experiments assumed.

I am very sorry if you cannot see the value of learning from history. They say that repeating the same actions and expecting a different result is the definition of madness.


Why did you choose your name?

Nothing you wrote has any connection to the thread at hand, except maybe the last part. But that one just describes how wrong you are. Actually you seem to be pretty content with the status quo and don't realise the problems resulting out of this mess we call a modern lifestyle.
You even try to imply everything should be fine if we just keep on doing what we do, what could be defined as madness as well. Your old ways are precisely what brought us here, I can't see any constructive critizism in your postings. You just cry out loud but don't offer any solution thus far. But correct me if I'm wrong.



As for responding three months after my last comment: did you know on "MyATS," there is a list of threads you have participated in? And when someone posts a new response that thread jumps to the top? I responded because the thread jumped to the top. Why did you respond?


Who friggin cares anyway, that's how you manage your discussions? Unbelievable, are you a ranting pre-teenager or what the heck is wrong with you? You claim to be attacked but keep on atacking our threadstarter with some silly sidenotes regarding the time he took to respond adequately. You do love to hate the hate you spread, don't ya?




How ironic! You are still trying to pretend that I have been defending totalitarianism, when you are the one singing the praise of a panopticon society. (Oh, and I just love the way you hint that everyone who disagrees with you is some sort of paid disinformation agent!)


It's the way you state your reply, the tone makes the music. So you even lack some basic empathy to realise your own mistakes. It's always the others fault, isn't it? I actually did disagree with Crowd on some basic points but we keep on with our respectfull discussion to clear up with our misunderstandigs, even with the intend to understand other viewpoints. You are just a self-righteous hater who never indended to contribute anything to the topic besides your silly fantasy about the reality you actually believe to live in.
Now tell me this is not another form of irony.



Once again, here we go:

Intellectual property should not be forfeit to the State. Privacy should be respected. Trade should be regulated, not controlled. Scientists should be free to research.


Once again: you don't have any clue at all. Privacy is not respected, even if it should be. That's where I go along with you, for a short distance. Trade is neither regulated nor controlled, just get some basic information regarding the top-secret TTIP-deal. And last but not least... scientists couldn't be less free to do their research btw, it's all about profits. Just take your time and talk to somebody who tries to acutally do some free research.

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posted on May, 13 2015 @ 05:11 PM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

(1/2)

What a wonderful contribution from you PublicOpinion. Much appreciated!




And I would like to mention this may be the people you should care about mostly.


You are absolutely correct, and the words I used was wrong for describing my disgust for certain members behavior. When naming this behavior I used words which were inappropriate because they also involved ordinary good hearted individuals who simply may have a different opinion or pre conceptive approach to matters. Opinions leads to discussion and suggestions and that leads to improvement, but opinions without improving suggestions are a waste of time when it comes to making things better.



But Aletheia... sounds more like ale with theia to me, we could use some better marketing on this utopia.


Haha, ok, I get it, you don’t like the name
And yes, even if I like the name based on its greek meaning, it could easily be switched for something more appropriate that both sounds nice while reflecting the structure of the society. You came with the the name suggestion of ”blue marble” before, I’m curious so could you please elaborate what you mean by it and its definition?



Anyway, history illustrated again and again that power will be misused. Always. Decentralize power and give us free education for everything and we would be able to manage our stuff alone pretty soon. Heck... what could get wrong anyway? We already should be considered an endangered species due to our own failures.


That may be true, but it doesn’t contradict that some sort of "government” (organizing organ of the collective goals) could work and by its presence make it easier for the society to strive while treating everyone as equals. I wrote this in my first comment on this page "The fabric I have described regarding Aletheia are in some ways based on horizontal collectivism which represent equality. The national and global voting with full transparency is a clear sign for this as well as the decentralization of our current political fabric, laws, economics, technology and military complex.” I genuinely believe that some sort of ”organizing organ” needs to be in place to steer the worlds population towards our common goal, goals we ourselves have been voting for. This organ will not have any power, it will only see to that our goals and laws are achieved and followed. Take some of the main goals I have stated in regard to Aletheia "Global goals of Aletheia shall be to exterminate homelessness, poverty, hunger and criminal activity.” To achieve this on a collective and global level we surly need some sort of organizing organ to motivate goals voted upon.

Wouldn’t you say?

I think that the word ”government” or ”state” needs to change to something different, something all individuals can lay their trust in. What do you think, and do you have any suggestions? Do you have any ideas of what kind of ”organizing organs” ”committees” and so forth is needed both on national and global scales for the society to strive? Im going to philosophize inline with this and then present my thoughts, If you don’t beat me to it

I also believe that one of the reasons to why the majority of big governments and power structures have failed on a collective scale is based on the fact that capitalism and the hunger for more is involved. "Attracted by power, addicted to power, devoured by power” We have seen this in all of the major power structures in our history, and to change that we need to inflict full transparency into "organizing organs”, even out the differences in wealth, ban corruption, and shift our priorities to well being of all and the notion of what we can accomplish if we become united.

The founder of capitalism Adam Smith (1723-1790) who laid the economic principles of the industrial revolution tailored a system which focused on the role of enlightened self-interest (the "invisible hand") and the role of specialization in promoting the efficiency of capital accumulation. According to Marx, the treatment of labor as a commodity led to people valuing things more in terms of their price rather than their usefulness. In our modern times David Harvey called the "system of flexible accumulation" in which more and more things become commodities, the value of which is determined through the process of exchange rather than their use. Marx believed that the extension of the labor theory of value indicated capitalists (corporate owners) would exploit workers by depriving them of value that workers themselves create.

This is exactly what our society have become, a exploitation business of the poor and less fortunate. They say that ideas evolve by descent with modification, just as bodies do, and Darwin got this idea from economists, who got it from empirical philosophers. Darwin was also the person who coined the phrase "Natural selection” which later led to "Survival of the fittest” Phrases which both seem to describe and grant old royal families and ultra wealthy people the mental mindset of being above other individuals that is less fortunate while insinuating a reason behind the social/financial gaps in our society. This idea could arguably have made it easier for these wealthy people to obtain more power and wealth after the implementation of the industrial revolution without a negative reaction from the rest of the population. If someone said anything about greed or power they could simply respond with "that is natures way of defining the order of life."



Every single piece of myself would block any nany-state-efforts reflexively. Actually I believe governments depict just another power-structure, that has proven to be deeply flawed due to it's process of personalisation. Consider us to be at some point, where even corporations achieved personal rights without any responsibilities.


"Nanny state efforts” in relation to un-democratic goals and decisions will of course never be allowed in the society of Aletheia. Every matter and decision is voted upon by all individuals on earth, the result will be a unified decision which have been based on statements from creditable and honorable people within the ”organizing organ” (environmentalists, health, innovation, technology, etc) but also based on the transparent and unbiased information every citizen can look up in the ”world database”



And in regards to responsibleness, trancparancy could even hamper progress after all. People may be afraid to loose their position due to a mistake. But I would rather like to life in a society, that is actually able to embrace mistakes as essential part of our personal evolution.


I see what you mean and I have met the same statement when talking to friends about this. But I believe that this mindset is mostly based on a unforgiving, critical, shallow and ridiculing view many people today have grown familiar with when viewing other people, and it derives from fear and ego. I believe that after we as humans have started to come together as a whole and understood that mistakes doesn’t matter as long as they are honest and later fixed individuals won’t be afraid to make them, as long as they do their best. Every soul makes mistakes and thats a good thing, because out of mistakes comes knowledge.
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posted on May, 13 2015 @ 05:13 PM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

(2/2)



Sure... we may need a new canon of values, maybe even a paradigm-shift to a more suitable lifestyle as part of this blue marble. Native Americans may not be the best example, I thought about the spanish communist communities during their civil war. They worked out so fantastically well on many occasions that their concepts proved to be more than just usefull again, even today.


I love native americans and how they lived, that’s the only reason why I mentioned them
I have read a big part of the attached articles you posted and I applaud their way of coming together on a collective level and making ”all” things work in such a ”easy” way during such a difficult time. I like these parts in particular;


The fact that collective plants were managed by those who worked in them did not mean that these establishments became their private property. The collective had no right to sell or rent all or any part of the collectivised factory or workshop, The rightful custodian was the CNT, the National Confederation of Workers Associations. But not even the CNT had the right to do as it pleased. Everything had to be decided and ratified by the workers themselves through conferences and congresses.



In order to achieve libertarian communism with production based on need and communal ownership of means of production as well as of what is produced it was necessary to replace the entire capitalist financial system with an alternative socialised economy based on federative unity of the entire workforce, and a means of making collective decisions for the entire economy.



Despite the limitations of the Industrial revolution in Spain, it demonstrated clearly that the working class are perfectly capable of running factories, workshops and public services without bosses or managers dictating to them. libcom.org...


Just a side note. Based on the industrial revolution in Spain during their civil war, and that the majority of workers were situated in Catalonia and did what they did, maybe some of the echoing mindset about national governing is the reason why the Catalonia independence movement have been as strong as it have been. Sure economy is involved based on tourism, but yeah, just a thought..



Actually I really think we would be better off without giving away too much power, people usually work together. It's profitable in many ways. We just need a new take on values, so lets put our heads together. Spain could be everywhere, literally. It's not that I think we shouldn't have any gov. at all, but we could most def. use some more "checks and balances".


Absolutely, that’s what this society is about. All power to the people, All organization to the ”people's government” Balanced wages and ceilings on wealth for corporations and individuals, keeping full transparency into ”the peoples government”, decentralizing/ dismantlement of the military complex, making many of the recreational drugs legal (regulated to some extent), banning secret organizations, strict laws against corruption, mafia/gangs, creating a ”world database” in which all citizens should have access to, a database which holds all empirical information.

If the aspect of money changed from something you need, something to strive for - to something that is necessary we would drastically reduce the feeling of envy and that would make us more willing to engage in human interactions whiteout ego and envy and in time this would reduce our differences. More similar wealth and ceilings on salaries will also reduce our differences. The desirable notion in this transformation would be for everybody to realize that all religions comes from the same source and that notion would reduce the feeling of who is right and who is wrong. The discussion would rather be about the peculiar differences time and geographical aspects have made to religion through our history.

I also believe that the aspect of transparency will make similarities and "collective belonging" among individuals stronger, because after PR and money driven interests have been taken away and people can read about the unbiased truth they will not disagree on unessential and ego driven matters like we do today.



Todo para todos, nada para nosotros!” (Everything for everybody, nothing for us)


That’s a nice phrase and sure describes how every individual should think about their society in whole. I haven’t read anything about ”Zapatistas” before you posted this, but I see that they went public 1994 when NAFTA came into effect, and I sure despise trade agreements which only have been drafted to benefit ”the few and greedy” even more.
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posted on May, 13 2015 @ 05:20 PM
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Double post...
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posted on May, 13 2015 @ 11:06 PM
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a reply to: Crowdpsychology

This thread has proven to be a fountain of inspiration for me. Well ok, may be depressing to wake up -after this dream- and return to civilisation, but I don't see any good reason to stop dreaming at all. Just some more to keep the vision alive and kicking!
It is indeed pretty interesting to see how fast this train of thoughts has been derailed to favor some hypocrite argumentation instead of progressive efforts, which a least try to adress the big questions you dared to put forward.

It's marblelous! You know.. the universe is a big one and our planet, with it's moon, is a very unique blue marble, tumbling through this vastness of space. I'm just barely able to wrap my head around this fact from my point of view, and our species is especially endangered when you think of all the stuff we need, just to stay alive. Pretty astonishing that we are still here at all. Do we really need a name for this? Thats the stuff somebody else could wrap his head around. But now, that you know why I came up with this marblelous crappy joke, let me go a little bit further on the matter I would like to adress with this more holistic kind of approach: swarm intelligence.


Ants aren't clever little engineers, architects, or warriors after all—at least not as individuals. When it comes to deciding what to do next, most ants don't have a clue. "If you watch an ant try to accomplish something, you'll be impressed by how inept it is," says Deborah M. Gordon, a biologist at Stanford University.

How do we explain, then, the success of Earth's 12,000 or so known ant species? They must have learned something in 140 million years.

ngm.nationalgeographic.com...

There might be reason we are in this together, besides of good times and sex. Did you ever have the feeling of somebody watching you? Did you ever stare right back into the facial expression of shame, people tend to show when you turn around to realise they did so? Of course, but obviously we just look way too awesome the way we come, that's right!


One key to an ant colony, for example, is that no one's in charge. No generals command ant warriors. No managers boss ant workers. The queen plays no role except to lay eggs. Even with half a million ants, a colony functions just fine with no management at all—at least none that we would recognize. It relies instead upon countless interactions between individual ants, each of which is following simple rules of thumb. Scientists describe such a system as self-organizing.


And I'm pretty sure we would find exactly this form of self-organisation in the communist communities in Spain, or even in parts of South & Central-America. Nobody needs to be put in charge if we pull on the same string, "simple rules of thumb" would be fine.

I like the idea of open source databases, as they would be very usefull for many applications. Properly educated, thanks to this plethora of data, we would be very capable to decide how to deal with various matters, from regional to global levels. Direct democracy seems to be a good start for me. Even if we are clueless regarding bigger pictures, ordinary people (maybe even less ordinary such like you and me) often provide astonishingly bright insight on little matters. And as long as they add up to fill bigger gaps, this system might just prove to be good enough. If not far better than any government can get.

And now just think of all the useless military budgets worldwide combined, we could build a fleet of spaceships and keep the whole population well fed and healthy incidentally. It's a joke, but a somehow nasty one.



I also believe that the aspect of transparency will make similarities and "collective belonging" among individuals stronger, because after PR and money driven interests have been taken away and people can read about the unbiased truth they will not disagree on unessential and ego driven matters like we do today.


Pay every human on this planat a monthly salary for the lulz and you would see this effect pretty fast. Anyway, fewer differences and more individualisation sound perfect to me. I don't project any of my religious feelings on others, except maybe for the usual value-fuzz between humans, and thus could go along very well with a common ground to stand on.

„Un mundo donde quepan muchos mundos.” (one world that accommodates many worlds)

Subcommandante Marcos is not just good for phrases, the Zapatistas provide another example:


Subcomandante Marcos led an armed uprising in Chiapas on New Year's Day 1994.
The rebellion sparked several days of sustained fighting with the federal government, leaving dozens of people dead.
A peace pact was later signed but the Zapatistas' demands were never met and they created their own autonomous justice, health and education systems in several communities.

www.bbc.com...

This system obviously can't be trusted at all.

I still believe the renaissance of Aletheia could be a very strong and peacefull one, but the Zapatistas don't seem to be very aggressive on their behalf either. And we still might be just some poor naive geeks to actually believe, we can talk about stuff like this without jumping straight into the top 10 of every Red-List the algos can find. We will see how far this fragger streches. But I'm actually still up to express my thoughts with no regards to any kind of scissors in my head whatsoever, now even more than ever.
Maybe that's why I contributed my part to this so far and to such an extend, but I really do like the Natives as well. And their indigenous spirit is somehow all over this place.

Another motto from the Zapastistas would be my final statement so far, thanks a lot for your inspiring reply mate!

„Preguntando caminamos.” (Wondering we advance)



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