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Serious question about US debt

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posted on Jan, 21 2015 @ 10:19 AM
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So occasionally reading around the forums I see people making the argument that our US deficit is "dropping", and I hear people on the streets arguing about US national debt.
I've heard several people claim factually that under Obama (and I don't want this thread to be about him please) the debt has dropped.

So I guess I'm seeking clarification.

09/30/2014 17,824,071,380,733.82
09/30/2013 16,738,183,526,697.32
09/30/2012 16,066,241,407,385.89
09/30/2011 14,790,340,328,557.15
09/30/2010 13,561,623,030,891.79
09/30/2009 11,909,829,003,511.75
09/30/2008 10,024,724,896,912.49
09/30/2007 9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 7,379,052,696,330.32
09/30/2003 6,783,231,062,743.62
09/30/2002 6,228,235,965,597.16
09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06
09/30/2000 5,674,178,209,886.86

I just did a quick lookup for national debt by year.
So I'm just rounding to the nearest trillion (holy crap) here, but from '00 to '05 we had an increase from 6 to 8T.
From '05 to '10 we had an increase from 8 to 13.5T, almost doubled in five years.
Then from '10 to '14 (not quite a five year period, to be fair) it's gone from 13.5 to almost 18T.

18T up from 6T back in '00. That's trippled in less than 15 years, and is consistently more year over year without a single drop. For funzies, that puts us at 50T in debt before 2045. Also for funzies, there's less than 1.5T in USD in circulation. Every printed US dollar combined doesn't even make a dent in this debt.

So am I missing something when I hear people saying the debt is being paid off? Am I just totally misunderstanding something?




posted on Jan, 21 2015 @ 10:29 AM
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The debt isn't being paid off, the interest on that debt is barely being paid off. So basically the monetary system in our country is being propped up just enough in order for the interest payments to be taken care of. But the debt itself continues to grow larger.

Furthermore, we (the American people) owe interest on every single dollar that gets printed - interest that we owe to the Federal Reserve. What a scam.

And don't get me started on tax breaks and banking deals that let corporate America swim in profits while the regular Joe is barely able to heat his house. This subject makes my blood boil. It's absolutely sickening.

a reply to: lordcomac



posted on Jan, 21 2015 @ 10:31 AM
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a reply to: lordcomac

No it is fudged math and spending whores that say that stuff. The are always spending more than we have.



posted on Jan, 21 2015 @ 10:33 AM
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posted on Jan, 21 2015 @ 10:34 AM
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debt and deficit are not the same thing.deficit is how much you spend over your budget. Debt is the accumulation of those deficits.reducing the deficit just means you're not digging the hole as fast as you were before.



posted on Jan, 21 2015 @ 10:35 AM
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originally posted by: lordcomac

I've heard several people claim factually that under Obama (and I don't want this thread to be about him please) the debt has dropped.

So am I missing something when I hear people saying the debt is being paid off? Am I just totally misunderstanding something?


The people who say under Obama that the debt has dropped are misinformed.

The annual budget deficit has dropped since the financial crises of 2008. The budget deficit is still a deficit.

The national debt has increase by about 9 Trillion under Obama in 6 years, more than double what he derided Bush for doing in 8 years.



posted on Jan, 21 2015 @ 10:52 AM
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The FED is owned by Israel. We borrow money from them through the FED. We pay interest on the money and the interest is called the deficit. The money that is borrowed is the debt.

The FED (Federal Reserve Bank) creates money out of thin air and prints it. It is serial numbered and given legitimacy (or illegitimacy, depending on how you look at it). The paper money is distributed to the 12 Reserve banks located around the US.

The money is worthless, has no backing except for what is owed with interest to the FED. You see, the money has no value until it is loaned. That's why the writing on a Federal Reserve Note says: For All Debt, Public and Private.



posted on Jan, 21 2015 @ 11:13 AM
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This is 1 million dollars in $100 dollar bills.



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This is 1 billion dollars in $100 dollar bills.



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And now this is 1 trillion dollars!




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Now I wonder what the interest collected on this for 1 year looks like?

Now I wonder who's big fat pockets they go into?




edit on 21-1-2015 by nOraKat because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2015 @ 12:13 PM
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originally posted by: nOraKat
This is 1 million dollars in $100 dollar bills.



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This is 1 billion dollars in $100 dollar bills.



---

And now this is 1 trillion dollars!




---

Now I wonder what the interest collected on this for 1 year looks like?

Now I wonder who's big fat pockets they go into?


Can we see a picture of 18Trillion!?
Pwetty pwease!



posted on Jan, 21 2015 @ 12:51 PM
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originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71
debt and deficit are not the same thing.deficit is how much you spend over your budget. Debt is the accumulation of those deficits.reducing the deficit just means you're not digging the hole as fast as you were before.


Many people confuse these two. The US government under Obama is reducing the yearly deficit, but are still borrowing money every year and adding to the overall Debt.

However it wasn't really Obama that has cut spending. The budget impasse kicked in a previously mandated across the board budget cut. So not agreeing helped cut the deficit, not really Obama's work per se.



posted on Jan, 21 2015 @ 12:55 PM
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originally posted by: NightFlight
We borrow money from them through the FED.


We are not borrowing money from Israel, we are borrowing money from ourselves which is actually much more absurd than borrowing from someone else.



posted on Jan, 21 2015 @ 12:56 PM
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The graphic is not accurate.

If the first picture is $1 million, the second picture is $10 million.

Only $990 million less than the indicated $1 billion.



posted on Jan, 21 2015 @ 12:57 PM
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a reply to: lordcomac

"Deficit Spending" means that they spend more than they take in.

Add all the annual "Deficits" and you have the total "National Debt".

The "Old Debts" get paid off from revenues from "New Borrowing".

Most "New Borrowing" comes from U.S. Treasury Securities sales.

U.S. Treasury Securities are Bonds, Notes, Savings Bonds etc. that pay interest to the buyers.

The Government needs to keep borrowing more and more to pay off the old debts practically on a daily basis.




posted on Jan, 21 2015 @ 02:01 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Kind sir, we do not own the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve is not part of the U.S. Government.



posted on Jan, 21 2015 @ 02:09 PM
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Got it-
I was confusing "deficit" with "debt", assuming they were the same.
What a joke.

I am aware of the insanity that is the Fed- and I honestly believe that if the average person in this country knew what was going on there, it would be riots in the streets nationwide overnight.

For those of you looking for a visual...

www.youtube.com...



posted on Jan, 21 2015 @ 02:20 PM
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a reply to: lordcomac

I do not know much about economics.. correction .. close to nothing about economics. What I do know is that a triljion is a figure hard to comprehend and this debt will not go away in generations to come. There are briljant Phd's i america specialized in economics, why do they all fail and can not change things around.

I always wondered how the ones responsible can not bring this nightmare to a halt. Or is this responsibillity with the citizens of the USA... Will this deal with the federal reserve stop if the people really want?

The way things are going now I am afraid that the only way for the government getting the slate clean is a global reset. You know what I mean by that.. Hopefully I am completely wrong because if other governments come to this same conclusion there is trouble ahead.




posted on Jan, 21 2015 @ 02:25 PM
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originally posted by: NightFlight
Kind sir, we do not own the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve is not part of the U.S. Government.


Who cares if it was owned by Martians? We are talking about who owns the debt and the rather simple answer is; we do.

We are buying our own debt, not Israel, not the Rothschild's, not some nebulous banking cartel. The American people are buying their own debt.



posted on Jan, 21 2015 @ 02:48 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

If the Federal Reserve System was part of the U.S. Treasury, yes you would be correct. However, the FED is not part of the U.S. Government and never has been. The money earned by the FED in its underhanded dealings since about 1952 is deposited in Israel, before from 1913 was in Swiss banks. That is one reason why we have no extradition treaties with Israel except for capital murder. Thats why Bernie Madoff was immediately locked up so as not to escape to Israel. He was 2-1/2 hours from boarding an El Al flight and had he made it, he would have never been prosecuted nor extradited.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that it is a troublesome way to bilk all the U.S. citizens out of money through interest. If the Treasury was in charge, which the Treasury is supposed to be by constitutional decree, there would be no interest at all, thus no deficit - only debt. The debt, or loaned money, would then have to be backed by something. It used to be Gold and Silver, but no more.

This is wiki, and I had to go deep into the BS before it:


Legal status of regional Federal Reserve Banks[edit]
The Federal Reserve Banks have an intermediate legal status, with some features of private corporations and some features of public federal agencies. The United States has an interest in the Federal Reserve Banks as tax-exempt federally created instrumentalities whose profits belong to the federal government, but this interest is not proprietary.[82] In Lewis v. United States,[83] the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit stated that: "The Reserve Banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of the FTCA [the Federal Tort Claims Act], but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations." The opinion went on to say, however, that: "The Reserve Banks have properly been held to be federal instrumentalities for some purposes." Another relevant decision is Scott v. Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City,[82] in which the distinction is made between Federal Reserve Banks, which are federally created instrumentalities, and the Board of Governors, which is a federal agency.
Regarding the structural relationship between the twelve Federal Reserve banks and the various commercial (member) banks, political science professor Michael D. Reagan has written that:[84]
... the "ownership" of the Reserve Banks by the commercial banks is symbolic; they do not exercise the proprietary control associated with the concept of ownership nor share, beyond the statutory dividend, in Reserve Bank "profits." ... Bank ownership and election at the base are therefore devoid of substantive significance, despite the superficial appearance of private bank control that the formal arrangement creates.


The text will not say where the interest goes, but "follow the money".



posted on Jan, 21 2015 @ 03:02 PM
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originally posted by: NightFlight
a
The text will not say where the interest goes, but "follow the money".


Of course it will not, otherwise it would undermine the whole nonsensical message it is trying to convey.

We are loaning ourselves our own money to pay our own interest with IOUs written by ourselves.

End of story. It does not need some 'It's the Joooos' conspiritard message to make it anymore sinister. It is sinister enough as it is.



posted on Jan, 21 2015 @ 03:16 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

It matters not to me who is stealing our money but that someone (even "Martians" as you eloquently phrased it) is indeed stealing the United States money - yours and mine.

You brought up the "jooos", I just stated where it was going. Let the chips fall where they may.




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