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my 10 cents on the draft

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posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 04:05 AM
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Whats worse a draft or putting people back into uniform years after they have finished there honourable service and gotton on with there lives for an example of this see thread
The draft is the lesser evil the pros (the people that volunteered ) could serve in combat zones such as Iraq while the conscripts look after national security ,disaster relief and perhaps peacekeeping.
Without a draft what right minded person would join the American military?




posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 04:25 AM
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Your right what right minded person would join the military when there are so many homeless veterans who fought and were wounded for their country, and now live off a pittance because their counry has forgotten about them...

Instead of forcing people into the military, the government should be offering more incentives to join the military... Many will join just to shoot and kill and not be arrested for it, others will join because they love their country and would fight whatever war they are involved in and not question the reasons behind it...

People dont join the military coz the pay is better elsehwere and your less likely to have to retire of a #ty little pension because your arm was blwn off.

So in conclusion to my senseless ramblings... Draft-NO, Better Benefits for soldiers and ex-soldiers - YES



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 12:23 AM
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People dont join the military coz the pay is better elsehwere and your less likely to have to retire of a #ty little pension because your arm was blwn off.

So in conclusion to my senseless ramblings... Draft-NO, Better Benefits for soldiers and ex-soldiers - YES

Im all for more benfits for current servicemen and women and veterans however that wont stop the American military from calling up veterans long after they have completed there service.
Even with better benfits people still wont want to join the American military.



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 04:59 AM
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After an "attack": parade grief stricken people on the media, establish an "enemy", spout nationalist rhetoric, air patriotic films/music, and you will have truckloads of young badasses lining up for a shot.



posted on Jan, 14 2005 @ 07:53 PM
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we wouldn't need a draft if the government didn't fight wars that didnt need to be fought.



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 06:35 AM
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We need the draft just to give a bunch of young gang bangers that murder nightly on the streets of America something more constructive to do with guns....
When the MURDER rate here in the states is lower than the numbers of troops killed in action by our foriegn policy decisions,
then i might think twice about not utilizing a bunch of gang bangers that think their badasses for something other than thugery on the streets of America.

A little civil service could build way more charecter instead or roaming the streets with guns and drugs does.



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 11:30 PM
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Well even if there is a draft, I sure won't be going


There is little the government could do if you decided you weren't going to go.. what are they going to do? Round up the many thousands or maybe a million people and throw them in a prison?



posted on Jan, 25 2005 @ 11:45 PM
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Heading for Canada eh Red? Im not suprized.

Prison wouldnt be needed...they can wreck your life just as easily.
They could just deny those unwilling to comply with the draft, with any bennifits of this society...no social security, no unemployment, no welfare, no drivers license, no passport etc etc....If your not willing to "ask what you can do for your country", then your country shouldnt ask what it can do for you.



posted on Jan, 26 2005 @ 01:02 AM
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You heard Bush...he said there is going to be no draft. Now, unless the Republicans want to lose the next few election cycles...the draft will not happen. Now, if the Republicans decide to truly hi-jack the country then my above statements are false. But that isn't likely because of those gun-toting CRAP! The red states have all the guns.

Anyhow...
...draft isn't likely. Even if it is, I'm two years out from my out age. And besides, I have my own reasons that they won't/can't accept me.



posted on Jan, 26 2005 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by CazMedia
Heading for Canada eh Red? Im not suprized.

Prison wouldnt be needed...they can wreck your life just as easily.
They could just deny those unwilling to comply with the draft, with any bennifits of this society...no social security, no unemployment, no welfare, no drivers license, no passport etc etc....If your not willing to "ask what you can do for your country", then your country shouldnt ask what it can do for you.



I'd rather loose all those benefits than die for Bush and his corporations. As a survivalist I am quite prepared to live the hard way.

Anyway, there won't be much social security left (if any) anyway if I live long enough to require it.

Yes, take away those benefits from millions who would oppose being sent to the slaughter house (Iraq, Iran or whever Bush decides to bring his warmongering too) Watch the civil arrest and possible militant actions being committed by Americans who have rose up and said NO MORE.

Any type of forced draft in this country today would be grave mistake....

They will need a draft just to control the civil unrest


I love that 2nd amendment.. our founding fathers (who are probably turning in there graves right now) gave it to us so we could eliminate an oppressive government who forces people out of there warm houses to go fight people who really are little or no threat to this country.

Iraq was supposed to have nuke bombs, chem weapns, bio weapons, and UAVS... WHERE ARE THEY??? Wow, Iraq such a threat!



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 12:12 AM
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Lets put words into Red's mouth
"I'd rather loose all those benefits than die for" ....those bennifits and the rights i enjoy here. Go on say it, you expect society to carry you and dont want to have to give anything back. Your all for socialism right?

Lets look at devicive rhetoric like,


sent to the slaughter house
Hmm, so the fact that in this conflict, the USA has had the FEWEST # of casualties for a war ever = a slaughter house eh?
I call this emotive inflation of a weak argument in order to make it more than it is. This is aside from the fact that every member of the armed forces has volunteered for milltary service...millitary service means they might have to fight, kill, and die....they were aware of this possibillity when they signed up.

Red's rhetoric spews on...


They will need a draft just to control the civil unrest
Any possible (yet unlikley) civil unrest will occur way more quickly than the feds could draft, train and deploy the troops you claim will put down this unrest.

You also fail to see that those drafted would be being called upon to shoot OTHER AMERICANS...even friends and family....Unless total lawlessness is evident to the troops, like looting, murder and other serious mayhem going on, i cant see these american soldiers even obeying the fantasy draconian orders you claim would be used to put down civil unrest.

This assumes that a huge bulk of American citizens would be brave enough to actually turn off the TV, get up off the barco-lounger and DO SOMETHING like this to start...hell all those anti-war protesters that were out in the streets at the start of the war...where are they now? Short attention spans? Too lazy to continue the good fight? I dont see them now.

Red asks the right question about WMD's,


WHERE ARE THEY?
As the US KNOWS that we gave them some of these WMD"S, and we know that noone ever verified the destruction some of them, and they REMAIN UNACCOUNTED FOR....Your question SHOULD scare you more than if found them where we said we would...who's got them NOW?
This isnt a MORE scarry situation than the idea that we as of yet avnt found any?

Red keeps blinders on here,


Wow, Iraq such a threat!

You are only fixated upon the physical threats, which as we've seen in the first trade center attack, 2 embassies in africa, the cole, the beriut baraks, khobar towers, and now 911 shows that this threat has been stalking the USA for quite some time...its as much an IDEA about defeating the west as it is in a physical way. Doing NOTHING as you advocate, doesnt do anything to eliminate the threat, in fact i say it perpetuates this idea causing it to spread against us....What is your plan to protect America from further terror, from a foe that continues to make and carry out threats?

PS after 911, Bush said we'd see terorists "at a time and place of our choosing." We'll we chose iraq, and picked the time and place for this fight instead of letting our enemies decide for us..this is called taking the inititave! And look, the trap WORKED! Lots of non Iraqi wack jobs are lining up to jump in front of US forces!!..we've given them the target of OUR choosing, and a target that isnt just a sitting duck. COME AND GET IT!!!

If we NEED a draft to continue to oppose tyrany, and extreamism then so be it!
When the MURDER rate here in the states is less than the number of soldiers killed by our foriegn policy, I'll be more concerned.
From my journalist seat of all the carnage in Philly alone...there are at least 5-10 shootings PER WEEK in the city area alone....Almost always comitted by young punks of DRAFT AGE. that means in Philly alone 3 people die a week on average (not all shootings are fatal)
Give these punks some dicipline, some money, some education, and some thing better to do than gang bang, killing other Americans.

You can fantasize away the murder rate here (in the USA) all you want, but it FAR outweighs the # of soldiers lost in your alleged "slaughter house" of war.



posted on Jan, 27 2005 @ 11:16 PM
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9-11 is no excuse to begin attacking multiple nations..... no evidence points to Iraq blowing up the towers... only blatant nationalistic "LETS BLOW UP THE TOWELHEAD" attitude. Sick and demented.

Hehe, most of those suicide bombers and insurgents are either rebel iraqis defending against American imperialism or terrorists coming in from outside of Iraq.

I'm sure if someone invaded philly you would be fighting and considered a "terrorist or insurgent" to the enemy who attacked you!

Just because they oppose US policies doesen't always make them an Islamic Radical.


The idea is that someone should not have to be forced to fight in a "war" which really doesen't need to be fought at all..

The elite have a history of "naming the enemy".. Whether it be Nazis, so called "communists" or these new Islamic "Terrorists" that we created with our constant trashing around in others business.

Stop waving your flag and quit chanting USA USA.

Unless there is going to be a WW2 style slaughter war in the future I don't think a draft is necessary. I doubt the Bush daughters would be going (as with the wealthy elite in general)

If you think a war needs to be fought YOU sign up and YOU go fight it.. don't force others to fight for you.

I agree with your comment about the volunteer military...... it was up to them to join or not.

I know there are certain individuals on ATS who get some sort of "sexual" excitement out of war........they just love it. Easy of course when you watch people doing it on CNN while you sit your fat arse on your couch. (not pertaining to you)

Often these people don't think about the innocents suffering....

Just don't force someone against there will to do further damage to world relations.


[edit on 27-1-2005 by RedOctober90]

[edit on 27-1-2005 by RedOctober90]



posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 01:37 AM
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RedOct says,


9-11 is no excuse to begin attacking multiple nations..... no evidence points to Iraq blowing up the towers... only blatant nationalistic "LETS BLOW UP THE TOWELHEAD" attitude. Sick and demented.
IT's NOT? Please grow a pair and stand up and stop letting others spit in your face!
No, the evidence does not support a direct link to iraq and 911, it doesnt have to....This NARROW focus refuses to see a bigger picture of an entire region of the world that has been making and carrying out threats against western interests, (not just the USA) for at least the past 30 or so years since the Iranian hostage crisis. This NARROW view refuses to admit that there IS a threat both phisically from terrorism by fundamentalist Islamist extremists, as well as an IDEOLOGICAL threat to peace, democracy, and quite frankly the credibillity of the USA. (which YOU have never expoused defending RED..so Im not suprized that you refuse to see this point)

Red claims everything to support his weak agenda here,


Hehe, most of those suicide bombers and insurgents are either rebel iraqis defending against American imperialism or terrorists coming in from outside of Iraq.
NO DUH! Likley a true enough statement even tho noone REALLY has gone over and taken a survey from them...However, the majority of the insurgants are NOT iraqi nationals but are foriegn extremists that wish to destabalize iraq and prevent democracy from flourishing there because it would be a severe DEFEAT to their agenda, ideology and power base.

Al-Zaccowi has SAID SO himself, He has also openly allied with AL QUEDA.
This is the enemy making these statements...so you can try to pass the blame to Bush policy if you want, but these people existed before Bush, their hatred of western ideal was cooking before 911, and only now, when thier plans and ideology are being squeezed, are they flailing about trying desperatly to maintain control...How about that Fax from Mulla Omar in afganistan that denied that his fighters were thinking about putting down their weapons...talk about a desperate plea and PR move....i think things are getting tough for terrorists and they KNOW it...otherwise why would he even have to mention such a thing?
But doing nothing like the USA has for the past 30 years didnt accomplish this, ACTIONS broad in scope in both afganistan and Iraq are.

Hell doing NOTHING for the past 30 years but watch the UN (some of whom were in secret collusion) do nothing more that set up paper threats against Iraq, allowed those radicals to get the idea there was no consequences for promoting their hateful, destructive policies.
Now they know differently...Ghadafi got the message, sadam understands now those threats from the USA to come and get him wewe REAL...Iran knows its being watched closely as does N korea and syria...do you think they will now give more considerations to warnings from the USA than they have in the past? I do.

Red tries to confuse himself and others,


Just because they oppose US policies doesen't always make them an Islamic Radical.
No it doesnt, but they have that choice to make.
Assuming your already willing to "fight" for a cause,
Either sign up for Iraqi police/millitary, support a new government and make something for your nation and yourself,
OR
Join the insurgants and have to fight a losing battle for what? What is the goal other than non democracy and seeming anarchy? Can you RED state what the oppositions long term goals are for the people of Iraq other than getting rid of USA forces? What a plan eh?
The stauts quo isnt going to cut it any more, too bad...and yes the USA AND others decided the time that you had to pick one side or the other...again too bad, crap happens, either adapt or succumb...the choice is theirs, BUT THEY HAVE A CHOICE!

Red blathers,


The idea is that someone should not have to be forced to fight in a "war" which really doesen't need to be fought at all..
Well dont volunteer for millitary service for one then, because when you do, you give up your right to get to decide what "job" your going to do to start with. It becomes your job to carry out the plan, and yes its someone elses plan, but hey you knew this when YOU SIGNED UP.

Then you go on to say "need not be fought at all" again this failure to see a bigger picture by only focusing on self centered view of the globe. Things are interrelated on the planet and are part of a continum of times passage.
This statement attempts to wash our hands of EVER having to do anything!
There is a cause/effect, action/consequence relationship which means that DOING NOTHING but hoping things work out only allows OTHERS to change your destiny for you. It shirks responsabillity and credibillity and basically is a lethargic position. How long can we avoid doing our chores because either they are hard or distasteful is a childish mentality.

Im not going to stop waving the flag as you call it because doing so means that someone else will wave theirs instead...leaving me under their control, not ours, as we sit back and hope everything will take care of itself.


Innocents will die in Iraq, by the insurgants hands, when iraq holds its election....does that mean that democracy isnt worth dying to have?
heck, even your socialism requires sacrifice to achieve RED, so at what point do you DO something to reach a result?

Advocasy of innaction achieves little more than wishful thinking.



posted on Jan, 28 2005 @ 09:33 AM
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Still, it does not give us the right to invade the entire middle east and force there culture into McDonalds Western culture.. and install corrupt governments run by corporations.

They think the west is a threat to there way of life... we think they are a threat to our way of life... it just depends on which side of the glass you are on. What we got here is a race/culture war... something the neo-cons drools about.

The reason why the insurgents keep fighting is that they know Bush will install a corporate government labeling itself as a "democracy".. Similar to what we have here in the USA. A system where representation depends on how much money you have.

The insurgents know the USA will install a puppet leader and puppet government under the control of the USA.

The only democracy in Iraq will be a military democracy.. democracy which is so fragile that the only thing holding it together is military force which will be under constant attack by anti-imperialist insurgents.

What you believe is the idea that since a few insurgents come from Iran we must invade destroy Iran while killing countless innocents.

So like I said, if you are beating the war-drums you should sign up yourself and go fight.. for I and many others will not.

You fail to realize that the West is the cause of terrorism... we have been meddling around in the middle east for years and they are sick and tired of it. I would be too.

Your statement about "stop waving the flag" is totally imperialistic.. you still share the primitive idea that one country should rule above all. This is not progressive thinking and it will do nothing but start more countless wars that you will let others fight for you while sipping your iced latte.

[edit on 28-1-2005 by RedOctober90]

[edit on 28-1-2005 by RedOctober90]



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