Going Off Grid!

a reply to: mysterioustranger

The fact that this nation was so asleep at the wheel to ever ALLOW property tax to exist in the first place amazes me....and yet we have to wonder what we are asleep to now.

a reply to: HarryJoy

You have that correct for sure. In this case...they want "off the grid" and purchasing land. That creates a paper trail of ownership, tax rolls, etc.

The only real way to get off and out...is to pack it for the hills miles and miles away and live on the land where its hard to find you.

If you buy, inherit, share or pay for land anywhere...theres a permanent record of it.

a reply to: Phoenix

What kind of batteries are you using?
Also, water treatment?
Thanks!

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: HarryJoy

You have that correct for sure. In this case...they want "off the grid" and purchasing land. That creates a paper trail of ownership, tax rolls, etc.

The only real way to get off and out...is to pack it for the hills miles and miles away and live on the land where its hard to find you.

It doesn't work like that any more unfortunately.

The bear in the sky (spotter planes) satellites, hikers, hunters etc are all what will trip you up.

People have done what you've said and become unglued. Their cabins have been torn down by the rangers, DNR, BLM etc.

I hate property taxes with a passion, it's the government / state getting their rent off you. Until the big collapse comes though it's the best thing to do if you want to stay on the right side the machine though.

Probably the only exception would be a bunker dug into a hill or mountain and well camoflaged.

One important factor is water, year round running stream or creek can take care o a LOT of your problems,
not only will it be water you need to survive, but you can rig up a hydro generator using high out put
alternators or the likes and take care of your power supply, plus if its big enough water you have a
food supply, as well as a way for irrigation.

One main thing i would require if i had the cash to buy land to set up for this is a year round running
creek/river/stream.

The other thing to think about is making your house, cabin blend in to the surroundings, underground home
or a hobbit home, where the top is covered with bails of hay and dirt adds great insulation as well as
grass and other will grow on it, thus blending it in to look like a hill and not a place people live.

Homestead will have solar, water. Any advice from those who have already gone galt?

While I haven't yet fully done this, I have researched the hell out of it. I've looked at solar, wind, water, etc. power and I keep coming back to one....propane tanks and a home generator.

Simply put, this option is the cheapest, most reliable one, and it doesn't depend on batteries and solar cells that need replacing. In addition, propane keeps forever, is easily obtained pre SHTF, and post SHTF can be easily salvaged. It can also be rationed to last even longer.

That said, I'm not saying the other options aren't useful. I'd love to rig up a solar powered well pump myself, with some nickel/iron batteries (very long-lasting), but for whole house power, with all the modern conveniences, propane is the way to go.

a reply to: Gazrok

My area Propane is kind of pricey and I agree with being able to salvage propane here and there. For me I've located 6 KW low speed twin cylinder diesel generator that uses .36 gal/hr. at 3/4 load maxing out at .47 gal/hr. at 100% load.

Combining that generator on 100 gal tank with another 500 stored, similar sized solar system with the higher quality battery storage should get my energy needs well taken care of.

Have 40 acres of hardwoods for heat so no issue there.

The home is ICF and 8" log so it'll use far less energy than traditional types.

Sounds great OP, if you are looking for some free labour i'm yer man, i could do with a working holiday, all i ask is free digs, free food and maybe some beers on my off time, which would be most weekends and the 4th of july... lol


Serious offer BTW.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

Ok, work rules are like those in Egyptian tombs - opsec you know - keep ya in beer though!

Congratulations! I'm sure you'll put in a garden but consider planting wild edible plants in the surrounding acreage. Fruit and nut trees will be a great asset when of age to produce as well.
Chickens do more than lay eggs and provide meat, they are great at keeping down tick populations. Goats can be great homestead animals as well if you want milk. Just be careful where you let them browse as they eat everything.

If I were building from scratch I would seriously consider an escape tunnel leading to a secluded spot.

I would also keep steel pan traps on hand as trapping is more productive and quieter than hunting.

Have a gate on your driveway.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Good to know about chickens and ticks. Wild berries do well in the area which gives vitamin C supply. Definitely having large garden that'll provide family food and a surplus.

Traps and snares on hand of course. Deer and small game are abundant.

It was a hard to find property, 10 miles to nearest town, 20 miles to any major path of travel, 1/4 mile square, back acreage with deeded access across 800' feet of forestry land and has two natural springs and creeks.

Getting to it one has to wind around on several county roads then go down a 1 mile dead end county road and then another 3/4 mile on private gated road. Topography on interior roads demand four wheel drive. But all of that is after passing 3 gates, gates are located so no bypass is possible in a vehicle.

Day/night cameras will be located at strategic points anyway as well as more failsafe means of detection.

Suffice to say we don't see any casual arrivals at that location so either its friend or foe.

Yup emergency egress under duress is planned for but wont go into details.

a reply to: Phoenix

Well you know what I always say: Kiss the mouthy one, that's what I always say! I think I typed it wrong last time...

I think that punchline belongs here.

Anyhow, back on topic, I liked expat's comments the most I think, keep it simple wherever you can. Any complexity that you add to your systems that can't be repaired in times of infrastructure failure will be worthless once it fails, so plan accordingly.

I liked what the other poster said about books too, so I thought I would re-emphasize that as well. Books can't be rendered useless by an EMP or solar flare, and they require no electricity to use, just a little light. They ARE susceptible to fire and water of course though, so again plan accordingly.

If by off-grid you mean post modern world sustainable, you should look into building it grid optional in areas where you may have code problems. Hook it all up with valves and switches so that it can be disconnected or switched over whenever you want. In some states I think you can hook up a simplified electrical system to pass code, and modify it later, and this is still legal.

I really like anaerobic digestors for septic, because you can get your methane and water back. I don't think there's an industry standard though, I'd guess it could be some kind of conspiracy but what do I know. Septic companies all only sell aerobic digestors that pump air through your system, that I've ever seen. You still get your water back, but there's no opportunity there to harvest the biogas. You could build your own, and that might require some experimentation and custom design, but I'm pretty sure it's doable if you want to go to the trouble. I'm looking at it pretty seriously, so I thought I would suggest it.

Another neat idea I've seen is a little steam engine. With some water and any flammable that will work with your firebox, you can produce power for electricity or possibly even other mechanical applications. Not exactly simple but fairly low tech as those things go. You'd want to have a special area for it to be safe, and it wouldn't exactly make for good hiding, but you could make power with your waste products using it...I think it would be good for burning excess brush.

Compost piles done properly can produce a good deal of heat so that is always something to consider. Mother Earth News had the best information and links to info that I saw when I was looking into it. From your property's basic description it sounds like you'll have tons of compost annually in the form of dead leaves. Burning it's a chore in states where you can, better to put it to work for you and make some nice dirt at the same time. You can also tent compost piles to capture the methane they produce, if you're so inclined.

Speaking of dirt, berm your home if you can. Pile up dirt around it, or build into a hillside. In ground housing is so much more efficient, you can do most of your heating and cooling passively. South facing only windows of course, to let in all the winter sun but none of the summer sun. The ICF's would take readily to this type of construction, not so sure about the logs.

Consider learning to plant, harvest and process trade goods in the post-SHTF world. Ones which would be useful in the pre-SHTF world.

Some sort of long-lived fruit trees are both decorative and nourishing, and once the SHTF, you can easily dry it for later use in the winter, when you'll be wanting some source of vitamins.

Field corn, a wonderful staple, can be cooked and eaten (I like it better than sweet, myself), but also dries wonderfully, keeps a long time, and can be cooked, fed to livestock, or burned for fuel. And it has a secondary post-SHTF use - whiskey. Learn how to do it before the SHTF, and you can have some very nice own-use blockade put back once you get the process down. Post-SHTF, it's not only good for drinking, you may need it for disinfectant. But it's a no-fail trade good.

Coffee won't grow well in the south. But tea does. You can grow your own camellia sinensis as shrubbery or decorative plants, and they will provide you with more tasty tea than you can finish off. A nice hedge wall of sinensis will let you keep your caffeine flowing after the SHTF, and is a great trade good that can be easily stashed away in tins and traded off a little here and there.

Tobacco is another, but it takes a lot of prepwork to do well.

Bee-keeping is something that will also pay off. You have thousands of willing little slaves going out and collecting nectar for you. If you have good equipment and some decent hives, it'll last forever. Post SHTF, there will be a lot of wild bees you can go collect by bee-lining, if your hives swarm on you. Bees will churn you out honey and wax, both useful before and especially after a SHTF experience.

originally posted by: TheBadCabbie
a reply to: Phoenix

Another neat idea I've seen is a little steam engine. With some water and any flammable that will work with your firebox, you can produce power for electricity or possibly even other mechanical applications. Not exactly simple but fairly low tech as those things go. You'd want to have a special area for it to be safe, and it wouldn't exactly make for good hiding, but you could make power with your waste products using it...I think it would be good for burning excess brush.

I thought I would add this concept I've been toying with that I may try to make work one day...boilers for your fireplaces or chimneys. If you have a boiler integrated into your fireplace or wood stove, you can be heating water every time you have a fire. You could also integrate this into an outdoor incinerator. If you developed a steam power system, this could also be integrated. These things would add complexity to your systems, but again they're on the low tech side as engines go, so possibly more repairable. Certainly easier to fuel than a hydrocarbon engine.

Of course the problem is you now have a big frickin' water tank above your stove or incinerator, so that fact might possibly complicate repairs if not properly planned for. It also has to be designed for. Plumbing, etc.

The other thing I wanted to add was to suggest that if you use aquaponics, set it up as a one pump system. In other words, set it up to be gravity operated and passively aerated, so you can eliminate the air pump requirement. With the right system, you could probably manually transfer water from the bottom to the top, thus having the potential to keep your system going even in the event of a pump failure.

Also set up your plumbing to be gravity fed from your storage tanks. That way you can still have running water if muni or boosted water pressure fails. It might flow more slowly, but it will still flow...

originally posted by: CraftBuilder
Get to know your neighbours. By the time the SHTF you want them to be the kind of friends that are worried about your well being instead about what you've got in the pantry. If it truly all out hits the fan, community will be the make or break factor for you.

........ and when TSHTF are you then going to turn your backs on them or give them something small at the begining which then escalates as things get worse?

(i agree that a community 10-20 people havs the best chance of suvival) but for it work it has to have all the right demopgraphics, ie distirubtions of age, genders and skills to name a few.

a reply to: Phoenix

I'm assuming you never done this before so I got one word for you Wheat. Wheat can feed you and your family. Plus if you grind it you get flower. Flower can be used for bread. Eat the bread then turn the rest into beer like the Ancient egyptians did when building there pyramids. After you put the stones into place you can take a break and drink beer but it won't be bitter beer like bud but it'll be better but best at room temperature not all beer should be cold.

Also you can help with the international corn shortage but corn is a very vertical crop.

Good luck but think of how your going to keep your phone charged if there's a emergency.

First you'll need to find the right legal environment.

Most of the USA is governed by building code. A handful of western states don't have rigorous codes outside of urban counties. But every state in the union has some sort of statewide building code.

Mostly, this means that you cannot build a log cabin from your own logs you cut on your own land. In most states, even in the west, every individual log has to be inspected and passed before it can be used. Even if they are tolerant of your logs, most of them require a log building's foundation to be built to code (and inspected/passed) before it can be used.

IIRC, the international building code applies to any building that could someday be used as a habitation, even if it isn't designed for that now. This is why inspectors have ordered playhouses and tree-houses destroyed by homeowners, because they weren't plumbed and reinforced and wired with GFICs

One way to make this work is to build a "hunting cabin" that will only be used temporarily for one season of the year. Some codes allow for that (apart from structural code). Maybe something very temporary. Then over time, it's use can change...

a reply to: redempsh

Thanks,

Luckily I moved to a State that still believes in freedom and it's east of Mississippi river!

The only inspection required is septic system - that's it! Otherwise they leave you alone.

Property taxes are few hundred year on 40 acres.

Nonetheless my structures are built way beyond code that other places have as to strength, wiring and mechanical items.

a reply to: Phoenix

Which state?

I can completely understand the code for sewage/septic by the way. Contamination of the water table by someone's poorly planned outhouse.... is everybody's problem.

originally posted by: redempsh
a reply to: Phoenix

Which state?

I can completely understand the code for sewage/septic by the way. Contamination of the water table by someone's poorly planned outhouse.... is everybody's problem.

Rural Alabama,

Just like anywhere else one has to get far from major cities.

There are some county governments that have a more liberal philosophy about rules and spending that I do not agree with on principal, depending on viewpoint I'd avoid those. I'm not where I'm at for government services.

Caveat is lack of codes can make for some sketchy areas with residents of questionable means that could be concerning in certain extreme scenarios.

One has to do much scouting of surroundings before making any commitments.

I settled on an area of ranching, farming and timber production where families have large landholdings for decades if not century, very stable.

Except for the "redoubt" states in the Northwest for my needs. I don't think I could have found a better area in the East, especially considering weather and much longer crop season, politics, tax load and an independent minded community that knows the land.

As I type, I can hear closest neighbors mile or more north doing heavy caliber pistol practice for second day in a row, yup, love this area.

The thugs may stream out of cities in teotwawki, first they have to get through suburbs, then towns, then small towns, then the ranchers and farmers who are on some very defendable roads and approaches - all before arriving my doorstep up in the hills off dead end dirt roads.

I think I'll have plenty time to be fully prepared unlike city dweller who'll be lucky with 12 to 24 hours maybe.