It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The God vs Satan paradox

page: 1
3
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 05:02 PM
link   
If the fallen angel Lucifer is indeed Satan and God created him, then by virtue of what the holy trinity stands for Satan is already forgiven and destined to eventually go to heaven as a good man.




posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 05:07 PM
link   
a reply to: genma

Wrong!!!

God is Righteousness. So how can He then pardon the one that led human away from God?
edit on 20-1-2015 by IndependentOpinion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 05:12 PM
link   
a reply to: genma

Lucifer is the coming of light(rising son), and Satan is the departure of light(set-ting sun)



posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 05:13 PM
link   
Trinitarianism is Idolatry and even Lucifer didn't do that...


He is probably in better standing that the Trinitarians




However based on the belief system you're going by, no, Lucifer won't be getting into Heaven on current form...



If he has repented in the last 2000 years and been in contact with God, maybe.

Nobody knows the Devil's prayers except for the Almighty...
& only the Almighty knows if those prayers will be answered!



posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 05:14 PM
link   
But salvation, which includes forgiveness, only comes with repentance. Satan would never repent, therefore Satan would never get into Heaven.



posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 05:17 PM
link   
a reply to: genma

The end is already written, he gets locked up in Hell, so your question was already answered about 1800 years ago (Just going with a number).

That is if we are talking about the same God....



posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 05:17 PM
link   

originally posted by: IndependentOpinion
a reply to: genma

Wrong!!!


Wow, how profound.

That really IS the best you can come up with, huh..? You give trolling a bad name...




On Topic:

No, humans were identified by god as the Elect...meaning out of all that was created by 'it', only humans were given the opportunity to be saved.

And anyways, why should Satan want to be forgiven..? He's living the dream...




posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 05:18 PM
link   
How do you know that the real Satan isn't who we think of as God? He's convinced the world to worship different forms of himself, thinking each is "their God." Then he created wars over who was right.

The real God may have been the one giving people the gift of knowledge. Then Satan tried to keep people from having knowledge, and scare them by telling them they would go to hell if they didn't obey him.

Which sounds more like God, and which more like the Devil?
edit on 20-1-2015 by Jamie1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 05:23 PM
link   
The bible itself says that the story of Lucifer being cast out of heaven can`t be true:


LUKE16:
22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’


so how did Lucifer get in hades? the bible says right there that a great chasm prevents anything from going from heaven to hell so, how did he get in hell from heaven?
even if he repents he can`t go back to heaven.

If god can throw angels out of heaven then that means we can be thrown out too,but where would we go? the bible says:

between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us


edit on 20-1-2015 by Tardacus because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-1-2015 by Tardacus because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-1-2015 by Tardacus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 05:25 PM
link   
a reply to: Jamie1

god is big brother and satan is emmanuel goldstein. buy all the bandaids and then start a war. supply and demand. thats how you own the market, supply in one hand, demand in the other. and then you have every last man woman and child by the heart strings, which you play like a violin, to which the masses will dance. just as long as you keep the boogeyman away. but there will always be a price. welcome to the economization of spirituality. exploiting a naturally fearful species "for their own good". this stuff isnt new, its been happening for centuries, but we ignore the wizard and watch the show because its easier than making our own magic. because they make it hard, so we stay dependent. fear is useless without dependency, without a trap to chase the rabbit into.

we call that trap 'church'. and thats where the magic happens.


edit on 20-1-2015 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 05:27 PM
link   
I was always under the impression that God cherished ALL of his creations, regardless of how flawed they may be or become.



posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 05:29 PM
link   
a reply to: Tardacus

That was before the crucifixion. There will be Heaven And Hell after The Judgement. Before the crucifixion there was only one place, Hades, in which there were two sides. That was neither heaven nor hell. They only came in after the resurrection. The Heaven from which Lucifer fell, was actually the presence of God. And besides, who says that there is a heaven for both human, and spiritual. There could have been one for each?

Again, that is if we are all talking about the same God and Heaven
edit on 20-1-2015 by IndependentOpinion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 05:35 PM
link   
a reply to: genma

Will you have dinner with a sibling that has just killed another sibling of yours?

That is one way of looking at it.



posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 05:35 PM
link   
a reply to: IndependentOpinion

that makes absolutely no sense and isn`t supported by anything in the bible.



edit on 20-1-2015 by Tardacus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 05:36 PM
link   
The God of Abraham is a demented alien named Joe Howha, not Jehovah, Allah was like his mantra. The dude was a jealous inter dimensional alien from an advanced race. Escaped from their equivalent of a maximum security forensic psychiatric facility. Found incompetent to stand trial in the galactic court near Alturus, for the civilizations he has allegedly destroyed the planets turned to a burnt cinder, al hideous crimes of epic proportion. He made leg bail and killed a whole bunch of Deputies. The Cops are on the way or may even be here now. Klaatu, Gort Verada Nicto!

edit on 20-1-2015 by HUMBLEONE because: Yada, Yada, blah, Blah, BLAH!

edit on 20-1-2015 by HUMBLEONE because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 05:37 PM
link   
a reply to: Tardacus

Once you study the topic for a few years, its easy to understand.



posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 05:50 PM
link   
a reply to: genma



If the fallen angel Lucifer is indeed Satan and God created him, then by virtue of what the holy trinity stands for Satan is already forgiven and destined to eventually go to heaven as a good man.


Interesting idea except satan isn't a man. God is not a man either.



posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 05:56 PM
link   
a reply to: genma

Satan is offered the same forgiveness that all of man-kind was given. If he goes to hell, then it remains by his own choice.



posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 05:57 PM
link   
a reply to: genma

Lucifer is a metaphor/symbol, for intellect/intelligence itself, the term lucifer usually associated with the intellect/intelligence predominantly used for ones own gain regardless of cost and care.

God is a metaphor/symbol for Good/Goodness. The followers of God, or goodness, believe there is value in using their intellect/intelligence predominantly for Good/goodness.

I dont believe there is such thing as heaven or hell, potentially they are only metaphors/symbols of states accessible as a human living on earth. If earth is ran by Good people, who want goodness/life/prosperity to be maximized, this can be seen as something of a heaven, of goodness, in such a world, evil people will be shunned, kicked out of heaven (jail? wilderness?).

Goodness believes that the intellect/intelligence is pure and in and of itself neither good nor evil, so there is always the potential for it to exist in a state of good, of heaven, this is why the desire to forgive is important, to prove the ultimate power of Good, to kill evil with kindness.

Of course the truth is extremely complex and complicated. If we say 'raping a person is evil, and illegal', how many times ought good people forgive a rapist who swears to have changed his ways? What if the impulses and desires of an individual are the highest marquees of goodness, as in "I want to rape, so that is good for me, so I will, and there is nothing evil about it"? This flows over into the nature of law and society/civilization/community. Having a natural respect for another individuals sovereignty and right to exist free from tampering with. Humans, good humans, meaning obeying that respect, sacrifice potential 'chaotic desires', perhaps to kill, to steal, or rape, in exchange for all that can be gained with good behavior, cooperative association between free and respecting and respectable peoples for goodness sake, for the sake of order, and progress, production, prosperity.



posted on Jan, 20 2015 @ 06:00 PM
link   
Lucifer is a Latin based name that means the bearer or bringer of light. As the bibles were written in Hebrew and Greek, one wonders at the provenance. However, the idea of Lucifer as the bringer of light is not hard to reconcile with the book of genesis, as knowledge was forbidden. And as such he who sheds light is he who goes against the will of god. Satan seems to be simply the yang to god's yin. After all, if one is omniscient, one must encompass everything, both good and evil. What better way to teach the reality of existence whilst trying to differentiate between the 'good' and 'bad'? It made sense when we knew nothing of physics and causality, now it is rather quaint.



new topics

top topics



 
3
<<   2 >>

log in

join