They were never there: Russia's silence for families of troops killed in Ukraine

originally posted by: Nikola014
a reply to: stumason

I did not reply to the op, it's quite obvious.

I don't understand which part of my reply lead you to believe that I've said anything that you are trying to suggest that that i've said. All that i've said is that MSM are unbiased and independent and do not have a secret agenda. Only Russian media does, duh.

That's hysterical, considering I've seen any number of ATS resident Russophiles claim that all western media is biased and RT is the last bastion of free and fair press in the world.

The 'biased media' thing gets thrown around a lot and, I believe, misused much too frequently. I firmly believe that both sides actively push stories that the other does NOT want published. These are the good stories and RT actually puts up some great interviews with intelligent people that don't follow the main Western thought process and thus don't get any airtime. Sadly both sides media skews stories and promote an agenda.

You have to surf both sides and avoid the propaganda that both sides pump out to get to the truth. Fortunately there are more and more social media reports that help figure out what that truth is nowadays.

a reply to: Nikola014

We have been told that only the Russian media's is biased and controlled by the devil.

Well not exactly the devil, but if Putin ever goes to hell the Devil may have it annexed in the name of saving Russian speaking demons there.

So you may actually be right about that in the future.

a reply to: noeltrotsky

I firmly believe that both sides actively push stories that the other does NOT want published.

Which is why the Guardian is a source that both sides have used to source their threads. Hard to call them biased.

These are the good stories and RT actually puts up some great interviews with intelligent people that don't follow the main Western thought process and thus don't get any airtime.

And that has been said many times by members, but when it comes to Ukraine that is a different story altogether.

a reply to: Nikola014

It wasn't deliberate, sorry. I blame my glasses, I need new ones.

As for "not being sarcastic", we'll leave it at that. I think it's clear you don't subscribe to the same line of thinking that you espoused in your post though....

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I think the term volunteer is a bit off in this case for Russia. The more appropriate term would be voluntold.

its one thing to volunteer. Its something else entirely when those who volunteer are in uniform and bring their advanced weapons with them.

not only are their issues on the home front with soldiers deaths (and the subsequent action of the Kremlin to label groups demanding answers as foreign agents) they are starting to see the mess they made in E. Ukraine.

You now have Russian units actively engaging "pro Russian" groups who have staked out their own fiefdoms. Several of those "groups" were forces to surrender to Russian military units. You also have pro Russian rebels actively engaging each other now.

if the Russian people figure out Russia invaded Ukraine then its entirely possible to lies Putin told them about the economic situation might be questioned as well.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Maybe X...

It does stand to reason he wouldn't admit it if they are making their own decisions.


But even so, he could at least admit to that if it's true.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Xcathdra

Maybe X...

It does stand to reason he wouldn't admit it if they are making their own decisions.


But even so, he could at least admit to that if it's true.

Possible but let me ask you this. Knowing Putins background in the KGB and his ability to "seize" the government like he did. The manner in which he has consolidated and controls the media. His ability to remove powerful opposition using their legal system.

Do you really expect people to believe that he has no idea whats going in in the Russian military and the fact Russian soldiers under contract are going to fight and taking their advanced weapons with them?

You really think he doesn't know whats going on?

If he does not have control over the military then he would not be President.

I raise this issue because the same denial method was used at Nierenberg after the end of WWII. There you had top Nazis telling the courts they never knew what the SS was doing in the "concentration camps".

In an environment like that, at the top levels, if you don't know then you would not be in the position your in.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Oh yeah he definitely knows what's happening without a doubt.



It's his input that I'm wondering about...


He may be denying it out of sheer stubbornness because the question put forth is "you've put soldiers in Ukraine"...


Like I was saying if he hasn't actually done that but knows they're doing it of their own accord it could just be stubbornness not to answer.


But he definitely knows how & why.



It also seems beneficial to him even if he hasn't ordered it.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Fair point...

If he has not ordered it and they went their voluntarily, then whats the reason on not explaining the deaths to next of kin? If they are their voluntarily then there should be no reason for the Russian government to withhold information and no reason to warn next of kin not to talk about it.

yes? no?

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

It's the age old "plausible deniability".

They "volunteer", so the Russian State can disavow any responsibility and even if the local commanders are found to have ordered them over the border, this can still be said to have been a local decision not one that came from Moscow.

Straight out the Cold War play book...

a reply to: Xcathdra

Definitely...


It's all shady to be honest...


Putin is far from having no blood on his hands.

a reply to: stumason

Yeah aside from that as well...


My line of questioning comes from the idea that's been in the back of my mind...

Do these Russian soldiers have family & friends in the separatist units in Ukraine...
Would that be enough reason for them to grab a gun & some ammo and join them regardless of whether orders were made...



I'm not ruling out your line of thinking, or that Putin is just lying...


It was just something I was thinking about.

originally posted by: stumason

Straight out the Cold War play book...

How well did that playbook serve the former USSR?

Stupidity on Putins part or is this more evidence to suggest he is really, as Merkel stated, out of touch with reality and believes he is the leader of the USSR at the height of the cold war?

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
It's all shady to be honest...

Shady?

I would say Dr. Evil.


He thinks he is an evil genius and thinks no one knows whats going on but him when in reality everyone knows whats going on underlining the sheer absurdity he is projecting.

a reply to: Xcathdra

This thread, this OP, and posts like yours exy (I am calling you "exy" affectionately

All of your posts and this thread reeks of desperation.

I mean what's up guys ??

Things are not going according to plan, are they ?

Ukraine is broke and now begging for US money, you have now another mouth to feed, another puppet state.

You have eastern part of Ukraine THAT WILL NEVER FALL REGARDLESS OF HOW MANY PATRIOTS MUST DIE TO DEFEND

Crimea is gone forever, you can cry me a river 24/7 on ATS.

And let me tell you this.

You ain't seen nothing yet.

a reply to: TryAndStopTheFuture555

So aside from the snide personal comments you have nothing of substance / information to add to the discussion?

I mean if you did you would be able to supply mountains of evidence that Russian armed forces are not present right? A hint - don't use Russian media since they have lately been showing uniformed Russian soldiers fighting in Ukraine.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

That could work for a few, but the numbers being bandied around indicate at least 8,500 Russian regulars with Tanks, rocket launchers and other heavy artillery have crossed the border.

While an individual soldier could cross the border with gun without orders, it's kind of hard to believe that they'd be allowed to take non export versions of Russian tanks (as have been filmed inside of the Ukraine) and heavy artillery with them without approval from their Command.

a reply to: Xcathdra

LOL

Dude, go see my thread in Military Projects forum,

Not only do I know Russian troops are helping separatists, I am advising on ATS that Russia engage in Complete and Total long range shelling of Kiev Puppet forces and every US Academi mercenary they kill is a bonus.

You are talking about information on ATS, I am talking about full out war.

Do you see the difference ?

a reply to: TryAndStopTheFuture555

Has the Kremlin called yet? Just curious. I feel confident that they were hoping somebody from the interwebz would advise them on Ukraine.