The Troops Have Done Nothing for Me.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
Over run by who? Immigrants?

The Chinese. The Russians. Etc. Yes also illegals. You do realize that America is the bread basket of the world, right? We do have oil and natural gas. We do have fishing waters and large fresh water reserves, and other natural resources that other nations and entities would love to get their hands on. Wide open lands for over crowded countries to unload their people onto.

The fact that we have a strong standing military keeps this country from being overrun. The fact that our military is on the southern border of Canada is a major reason why no one dares attack Canada. Those are the facts. The OP can have his anti-US-military sentiments all he wants ... but he's dead wrong about the military not doing anything for him. Those are the facts.

originally posted by: CX
Oh and just for the record....whilst in service, I never knowingly murdered or raped anyone. So that's another one off the bad soldier list just in case anyone is keeping tabs.

I did get labelled a baby killer by a Jehovah Witness once....but you'll be glad to know that I never killed any babies either.....helped deliver a couple whilst in duty as it happens...but from what I recall, most definitely didn't kill any.

CX.

A Canadian serviceman explained to me that a gunner on a truck is obligated to shoot mother and child if they get too close to the vehicle. There was a problem with women running up with dead or even live babies in their arms and a grenade hidden beneath. He was ordered to shoot women and children in this scenario.

a reply to: CX

whilst in service, I never knowingly murdered or raped anyone. 

I agree, all I did was try to keep myself and the guy on my right and left alive.
As for rape, well I was more concerned about making it home alive than getting my Willie wet. Its a priority thing.

As for the aurthor of this thread he is entitled to his point of view. Whether I deem his wrong is my point of view and Im proud and honored to help keep his and my freedoms intact. Because the aurthor knows dang good and well if he lived in some dictatorship or a emerging caliphate he would either be thrown in some dark hole never to be seen again or getting his head loped off on aljazera. So.. In a but shell I am happy he has the right and the freedom to speak of such a subject.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: CX
Oh and just for the record....whilst in service, I never knowingly murdered or raped anyone. So that's another one off the bad soldier list just in case anyone is keeping tabs.

Ditto. Neither did I when I was in the Army. Nor did my husband when he was in the Air Force. And my brother (also Air Force) and my Nephew (Navy) never murdered or raped anyone either.

Excellent news! We should start a club....a "good soldiers club who don't kill and rape, and who try their best to serve and help their country".....although I heard there is already one out there with a rather large membership, i'll sleep on that idea.

CX.

originally posted by: honested3
Hi ATS,

I am tired of hearing how the troops fought for my rights as an American citizen and that I should somehow owe them anything. Well I don't own them anything and I don't feel they have fought for my rights in any of the wars in the last 100 or so years. I assure you I am not trolling, but hearing about how I need to pay my respects to the men and women of the armed forces because they did so much for me when they haven't done squat. The armed forces are murderers who fight only for corporate greed by raping and pillaging others. Sure there might be good men and women who are veterans, I have nothing against them as people and I know lives have been lost and have been saved, but I see the armed forces as a whole not anything to glorify or commend but only to be ashamed of.

That is all.

So long as you have the freedom to choose whether or not to enlist you need to understand that you only have that option because others are putting their lives on the line in your place.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
Over run by who? Immigrants?

The Chinese. The Russians. Etc. Yes also illegals. You do realize that America is the bread basket of the world, right? We do have oil and natural gas. We do have fishing waters and large fresh water reserves, and other natural resources that other nations and entities would love to get their hands on. Wide open lands for over crowded countries to unload their people onto.

The fact that we have a strong standing military keeps this country from being overrun. The fact that our military is on the southern border of Canada is a major reason why no one dares attack Canada. Those are the facts. The OP can have his anti-US-military sentiments all he wants ... but he's dead wrong about the military not doing anything for him. Those are the facts.

No one dares attack Canada for the same reason nobody attacks Australia. We are part of the British Empire and even the Americans do not have the Authority.

The Chinese are already here. They own a large majority of our expensive real estate. Russia? OMG! Never came close to happening and never going to happen.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

The Chinese are already here. They own a large majority of our expensive real estate.

And that was done by banking and loans (same here in the US) not at the tip of a sword. Appel's to Orange's.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

A Canadian serviceman explained to me that a gunner on a truck is obligated to shoot mother and child if they get too close to the vehicle. There was a problem with women running up with dead or even live babies in their arms and a grenade hidden beneath. He was ordered to shoot women and children in this scenario.

Hi Malbosia,

Thankfully I never experienced a situation like this during my service. I struggle to this day with some of the things I went through, so lord knows how i'd behave or feel if I was confronted with this.

However if they were doing it deliberately with intentions to kill soldiers, I guess you would have to do what you have to do to stop that threat. I can't imagine what it would be like, I don't want to either. Not even sure I could do it.

I know my granddad said once he shot a sniper in the jungle, found out after it was a woman and he was never the same since.

This also shows what some soldiers are expected to do, or have to do to stop themselves being killed. It's a crappy job, but someone has to do it.....and unfortunately whilst I wish it wasn't the case.....someone DOES have to do it.

Not sure if you have kids or not, but another way to look at it is this. Your son/daughter is serving in Afghanistan, and this exact scenario is put before him/her. Either they or a friend kills the woman, or they are killed themselves. You will lose your child. Does the situation change in your eyes now?

No wrong or right answer here, your opinion is no better or less than mine. Just asking for the sake of discussion.

Decisions decisions eh?

Luckily we have the freedom and space here to think about what we would and would not do. I hope we both never have to face something like this again.

CX.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: CX
Oh and just for the record....whilst in service, I never knowingly murdered or raped anyone. So that's another one off the bad soldier list just in case anyone is keeping tabs.

I did get labelled a baby killer by a Jehovah Witness once....but you'll be glad to know that I never killed any babies either.....helped deliver a couple whilst in duty as it happens...but from what I recall, most definitely didn't kill any.

CX.

A Canadian serviceman explained to me that a gunner on a truck is obligated to shoot mother and child if they get too close to the vehicle. There was a problem with women running up with dead or even live babies in their arms and a grenade hidden beneath. He was ordered to shoot women and children in this scenario.

Lethal force in that situation is at about step 7 of the ROE. That's after verbal commands and hand gestures, putting up signs that say "don't run up on the vehicles," throwing flares and smoke grenades, and warning shots, and who knows what else.

And I'm fairly certain that somebody running up on your vehicle with a grenade hidden under a kid, dead or living, isn't coming to exchange high fives.

originally posted by: CX

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

A Canadian serviceman explained to me that a gunner on a truck is obligated to shoot mother and child if they get too close to the vehicle. There was a problem with women running up with dead or even live babies in their arms and a grenade hidden beneath. He was ordered to shoot women and children in this scenario.

Hi Malbosia,

Thankfully I never experienced a situation like this during my service. I struggle to this day with some of the things I went through, so lord knows how i'd behave or feel if I was confronted with this.

However if they were doing it deliberately with intentions to kill soldiers, I guess you would have to do what you have to do to stop that threat. I can't imagine what it would be like, I don't want to either. Not even sure I could do it.

I know my granddad said once he shot a sniper in the jungle, found out after it was a woman and he was never the same since.

This also shows what some soldiers are expected to do, or have to do to stop themselves being killed. It's a crappy job, but someone has to do it.....and unfortunately whilst I wish it wasn't the case.....someone DOES have to do it.

Not sure if you have kids or not, but another way to look at it is this. Your son/daughter is serving in Afghanistan, and this exact scenario is put before him/her. Either they or a friend kills the woman, or they are killed themselves. You will lose your child. Does the situation change in your eyes now?

No wrong or right answer here, your opinion is no better or less than mine. Just asking for the sake of discussion.

Decisions decisions eh?

Luckily we have the freedom and space here to think about what we would and would not do. I hope we both never have to face something like this again.

CX.

I am not saying the scenario is not just. I feel terribly for this guy because he didn't know if they had a bomb or not it was a standing order regardless. I'm not sure what point Im trying to make other than we send these boys off to do the unthinkable and it is just really frickin sad.

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: CX
Oh and just for the record....whilst in service, I never knowingly murdered or raped anyone. So that's another one off the bad soldier list just in case anyone is keeping tabs.

I did get labelled a baby killer by a Jehovah Witness once....but you'll be glad to know that I never killed any babies either.....helped deliver a couple whilst in duty as it happens...but from what I recall, most definitely didn't kill any.

CX.

A Canadian serviceman explained to me that a gunner on a truck is obligated to shoot mother and child if they get too close to the vehicle. There was a problem with women running up with dead or even live babies in their arms and a grenade hidden beneath. He was ordered to shoot women and children in this scenario.

Lethal force in that situation is at about step 7 of the ROE. That's after verbal commands and hand gestures, putting up signs that say "don't run up on the vehicles," throwing flares and smoke grenades, and warning shots, and who knows what else.

And I'm fairly certain that somebody running up on your vehicle with a grenade hidden under a kid, dead or living, isn't coming to exchange high fives.

You know the probably don't understand your commands and you wont ever know if they had a bomb or not before you fire. Frantic parents act frantically some times

a reply to: honested3

As a veteran, I will say this: to a point, you're correct.

Most wars fought in the last 100 years were not in response to direct attacks on our country. But you cannot forget about WWs I and II, which were in direct response to attacks on us. In both instances, I think the U.S. showed amazing constraint in waiting to join in the fight until it was a direct attack against us or our citizens.

However, I feel that nearly every other war, if not every war, that we have been in other than those two have basically been in response to alliances that came to fruition from those two wars or because we feel that we have a duty to be the world's police, or moral compase, or whatever "duty" America has at the time.

But that being said, you must understand that you cannot place your disdain and hatred on the troops, but you must direct it toward those who keep sending us to these wars. Many people would probably call me an "isolationist," but you know, I would prefer that over the situations that we have in this world right now. We, as the U.S. military, cannot harbor the belief that we can just nation-hop and try to "fix" everything that we deem "wrong" in the world...especially through force.

I fully unerstand your sentiment, but I truly think that you're directing your ire in the wrong direction, and that overall, it's too generalized on a topic that has innumerable pieces to the puzzle.

SM

originally posted by: MALBOSIA I'm not sure what point Im trying to make other than we send these boys off to do the unthinkable and it is just really frickin sad.

I won't disagree with you there.

CX.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: CX
Oh and just for the record....whilst in service, I never knowingly murdered or raped anyone. So that's another one off the bad soldier list just in case anyone is keeping tabs.

I did get labelled a baby killer by a Jehovah Witness once....but you'll be glad to know that I never killed any babies either.....helped deliver a couple whilst in duty as it happens...but from what I recall, most definitely didn't kill any.

CX.

A Canadian serviceman explained to me that a gunner on a truck is obligated to shoot mother and child if they get too close to the vehicle. There was a problem with women running up with dead or even live babies in their arms and a grenade hidden beneath. He was ordered to shoot women and children in this scenario.

Lethal force in that situation is at about step 7 of the ROE. That's after verbal commands and hand gestures, putting up signs that say "don't run up on the vehicles," throwing flares and smoke grenades, and warning shots, and who knows what else.

And I'm fairly certain that somebody running up on your vehicle with a grenade hidden under a kid, dead or living, isn't coming to exchange high fives.

You know the probably don't understand your commands and you wont ever know if they had a bomb or not before you fire. Frantic parents act frantically some times

Yea that's why we put signs on the vehicles telling people to stay back. And do all the other things, up to and including firing warning shots.

No, we don't know what their intent is until they do something. That's why there were so many levels in between "yelling" and "lethal force," to give people ample opportunity to stop and let us handle things in a controlled manner. Is it a perfect solution? No, because you saddle somebody with having to make that call. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes they don't. Either way, they have to live with it. Or not live with it.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
We are part of the British Empire ...

The sun has set on the British Empire.
America being here basically defends the Southern Canadian border.
If we go down ... Canada goes down.

i had no strong feelings towards afghan before i deployed there. i didn't walk up to my recruiter and tell him i wanted to go murder people for no damn reason. i enlisted because i love my country and someone has to keep the wolves at bay. if i didn't then who would? what if no one volunteered for that job? hypothetical scenario: no one enlists anymore. no one re-enlists. people retire in droves. our military becomes a fraction of what it was. everything is fine and dandy. con currently people who want to destroy our way of lives and those of our allies continue to capture children and turn them into soldiers. 5 years go bye. they have amassed a large army and attack us because we aren't as capable to defend ourselves. guess who is doing the fighting now? the people who accuses our troops of being worthless. i bet most of them cant even shoot or do maintenance on their weapons. # off. op and his supporters are ignorant. yes i swore to defend your right to talk # to me and my brothers but come at me in person with that # and i will shut you the # up.

originally posted by: hillbilly4rent
a reply to: MALBOSIA

The Chinese are already here. They own a large majority of our expensive real estate.

And that was done by banking and loans (same here in the US) not at the tip of a sword. Appel's to Orange's.

And if the people stood up to the invading Chinese, would our politicians send the soldiers to help our people or defend the Chinese?

That is an apple smeared all over our face like an orange.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom

originally posted by: darkwingduck
a reply to: honested3

I think you would feel differently if you had some loved ones in the Twin Towers on 9/11.

I'd be upset that we didn't/haven't gone after Saudi Arabia in some way, considering most of the alleged highjacker came from Saudi Arabia.

I have often ponder this myself.

And have come to the conclusion that if we had. The home of Mecca, and Medina. Would have been a rallying cry of muslim jihad around the world.

Things would be a bigger snip sandwhich than they are now.

RIP Abeer Qassim Hamza al-Janabi!!!



Im sure the "liberation" makes up for your suffering & our "freedom"!!!

a reply to: neo96

I feel certain that this is the main bargaining chip on the table from Saudi Arabia.