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‘American Sniper’ Complaints Grow in Hollywood: Should Clint Eastwood Be Celebrating a ‘Killer

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posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 07:06 PM
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a reply to: Xenogenesis





(one of which was ILLEGAL)


Please detail which war was "illegal". Don't even think about saying Iraq. The first Gulf War was never ended by a peace treaty, but by a "cease-fire agreement". Do you know the fundamental difference?




posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 07:08 PM
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a reply to: Asynchrony




There is a very real definitive line between a "killer" and a "soldier". Yes, soldiers kill but no, they are not "killers" in the sense that the word is used domestically to label those who kill the innocent on our own soil. "Killer" is a word with unsavory and negative connotations. I wouldn't call a soldier who killed the enemy "killer", he was doing his job and his job makes you safer. I 100% agree with this quote,


No, we are killers, and we will not hesitate to claim the title. I suppose you meant to say "murderers". All murder is killing, not all killing is murder.



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 07:12 PM
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originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Tangerine

that is a false assumption. the military has standards and it is clear you are just guessing here. the answer is out there if you care to search for it rather than to fuel a known liar.


What, specifically, is a false assumption? What answer is out there? What known liar? Do try to be a little more specific in your posts. It's often hard to tell what you're talking about.



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 07:14 PM
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originally posted by: Salander

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Kuroodo




Ignorant because he only targets a specific culture/group of people.


The same people that were trying to kill American soldiers.


The same people that were trying to kill American soldiers that were killing their countrymen and family members.


So basically, "war"??



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 07:19 PM
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originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Tangerine

you know i don't mind rattling on about this or that.

in the case of military being celebrated for killing it is because the us is a supposed democracy where the nation has decided to send in our own to protect our way of life. now in that situation there will be killing and if some amoung the rest are making great sacrifices to take out key targets that will result in less deaths on our side and will result in the whole mess being over quicker and american freedoms safer then i will celebrate those amoung us that chose that life and those that support them and those that heal them.


"Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 07:19 PM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical

Yes, a war we started and then called the people savages for defending them self's from us...



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 07:28 PM
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originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: NOTurTypical

Yes, a war we started and then called the people savages for defending them self's from us...



No, Saddam Hussein started the war. And when the war was over with terrorists who were fighting against the democratically elected Iraqi government started an insurgency. There were 17+ UNSC resolutions finding Iraq in material breach of the cease-fire agreement signed ending the first Gulf War. Under international law any party to a cease-fire can resume armed conflict if the other party fails to abide by the agreements set forth in the cease-fire agreement.

The first Gulf War was never ended by peace treaty.



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 07:55 PM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical


Fine, then we broke the cease fire.
Paint the picture how ever you want but it still comes out the same.

We went over and started blowing stuff up, people didn't really like that and tried to put a stop to it.

Sounds very savage.



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 08:02 PM
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originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

Wonder WHAT else you are wrong about?www.researchgate.net...://www.fbo.gov/i ndex?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=3561a5b205fbea8e2d4efece30e7420b&tab=core&tabmode=list&=


I didnt say they didnt do psych screening or even extensive psych screening for snipers. I said they dont and wont look for sociopaths. They only way to truly determine one is to do a lab experiment with scientists and brain monitors. Thats not even full proof.
So I wonder what else YOU are mistaken about.

Chris Kyle without a doubt shows signs of sociopathy. Hell we can check his personality against the Hare checklist right here.


I agree with you about Kyle. That's a surprise to absolutely no one.
I strongly suspect that Navy SEAL candidates undergo extensive psychological testing that results in the creation of psychological profiles. Yep, same with Police Officer candidates. So? It's extremely expensive to train them and it's vital that they can be trusted to do that which they're ordered to do and remain silent about that which they've done. It's nearly impossible to tell how someone will react to combat but the psych evaluation is to make sure they will follow orders, not completely freak out at the drop of a hat, or kill indiscriminately without reason. Most of their training is secret and we would not be privy to such testing. I don't think there should be an assumption that sociopathy would be a disqualifier. In fact, it may be a qualifier. That assumption is laughable.


You seem to believe that in order for a warrior to kill, they must be a sociopath/psychopath with no empathy or remorse. You couldn't be more wrong. Normal people who are put into a defensive situation, either self-defense or defense of others, will generally do what is necessary.

For your opinion to be valid, all warriors throughout history with multiple kills would have to be sociopaths. This includes pilots of attack helicopters and fighter/bombers, UAV pilots, most ground troops, all snipers, all special operations troops, etc. If that's true, how would the vast majority of them be able to come home and lead normal productive lives?

You really don't have a clue what you're talking about, Tangerine.
edit on 1/23/2015 by Answer because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 08:12 PM
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originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

Wonder WHAT else you are wrong about?www.researchgate.net...://www.fbo.gov/i ndex?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=3561a5b205fbea8e2d4efece30e7420b&tab=core&tabmode=list&=


I didnt say they didnt do psych screening or even extensive psych screening for snipers. I said they dont and wont look for sociopaths. They only way to truly determine one is to do a lab experiment with scientists and brain monitors. Thats not even full proof.
So I wonder what else YOU are mistaken about.

Chris Kyle without a doubt shows signs of sociopathy. Hell we can check his personality against the Hare checklist right here.


I agree with you about Kyle. That's a surprise to absolutely no one.
I strongly suspect that Navy SEAL candidates undergo extensive psychological testing that results in the creation of psychological profiles. Yep, same with Police Officer candidates. So? It's extremely expensive to train them and it's vital that they can be trusted to do that which they're ordered to do and remain silent about that which they've done. It's nearly impossible to tell how someone will react to combat but the psych evaluation is to make sure they will follow orders, not completely freak out at the drop of a hat, or kill indiscriminately without reason. Most of their training is secret and we would not be privy to such testing. I don't think there should be an assumption that sociopathy would be a disqualifier. In fact, it may be a qualifier. That assumption is laughable.


You seem to believe that in order for a warrior to kill, they must be a sociopath/psychopath with no apathy or remorse. You couldn't be more wrong. Normal people who are put into a defensive situation, either self-defense or defense of others, will generally do what is necessary.

For your opinion to be valid, all warriors throughout history with multiple kills would have to be sociopaths. This includes pilots of attack helicopters and fighter/bombers, UAV pilots, most ground troops, all snipers, all special operations troops, etc. If that's true, how would the vast majority of them be able to come home and lead normal productive lives?

You really don't have a clue what you're talking about, Tangerine.


Please don't alter my posts by bolding sentences I didn't bold and don't tell me what I mean. I clearly stated that which I meant. SEALs are not regular combat troops. They are covert assassins. The psychological attributes to be a covert assassin are quite different from that required to be a regular combat troop. For one thing, regular combat troops do not have an expectation of having to covertly watch their human target for hours or days and then sneak up on that person and slit his throat. Nor do regular combat troops have an expectation of having to do that to women, children, and old people although the situation might arise. SEALs sign up to do this stuff. Do you understand that? SEALs are not remotely "normal" people? "Normal" people can't get through their training nor do what they do after training. As for your comment about them coming home and leading normal lives, I don't know that that's true. You're trying to mix apples and oranges. I am talking specifically about SEALs.



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 08:48 PM
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a reply to: Sremmos80




Fine, then we broke the cease fire.


No, we ENDED the ceasefire. After Iraq had 17 material breaches of the agreement.



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 08:50 PM
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a reply to: Tangerine




Please don't alter my posts by bolding sentences I didn't bold and don't tell me what I mean. I clearly stated that which I meant. SEALs are not regular combat troops. They are covert assassins. The psychological attributes to be a covert assassin are quite different from that required to be a regular combat troop. For one thing, regular combat troops do not have an expectation of having to covertly watch their human target for hours or days and then sneak up on that person and slit his throat. Nor do regular combat troops have an expectation of having to do that to women, children, and old people although the situation might arise. SEALs sign up to do this stuff. Do you understand that? SEALs are not remotely "normal" people? "Normal" people can't get through their training nor do what they do after training. As for your comment about them coming home and leading normal lives, I don't know that that's true. You're trying to mix apples and oranges. I am talking specifically about SEALs.


The ROEs for a S.E.A.L. and a regular Army infantry soldier are the exact same.



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 08:54 PM
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originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

Wonder WHAT else you are wrong about?www.researchgate.net...://www.fbo.gov/i ndex?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=3561a5b205fbea8e2d4efece30e7420b&tab=core&tabmode=list&=


I didnt say they didnt do psych screening or even extensive psych screening for snipers. I said they dont and wont look for sociopaths. They only way to truly determine one is to do a lab experiment with scientists and brain monitors. Thats not even full proof.
So I wonder what else YOU are mistaken about.

Chris Kyle without a doubt shows signs of sociopathy. Hell we can check his personality against the Hare checklist right here.


I agree with you about Kyle. That's a surprise to absolutely no one.
I strongly suspect that Navy SEAL candidates undergo extensive psychological testing that results in the creation of psychological profiles. Yep, same with Police Officer candidates. So? It's extremely expensive to train them and it's vital that they can be trusted to do that which they're ordered to do and remain silent about that which they've done. It's nearly impossible to tell how someone will react to combat but the psych evaluation is to make sure they will follow orders, not completely freak out at the drop of a hat, or kill indiscriminately without reason. Most of their training is secret and we would not be privy to such testing. I don't think there should be an assumption that sociopathy would be a disqualifier. In fact, it may be a qualifier. That assumption is laughable.


You seem to believe that in order for a warrior to kill, they must be a sociopath/psychopath with no apathy or remorse. You couldn't be more wrong. Normal people who are put into a defensive situation, either self-defense or defense of others, will generally do what is necessary.

For your opinion to be valid, all warriors throughout history with multiple kills would have to be sociopaths. This includes pilots of attack helicopters and fighter/bombers, UAV pilots, most ground troops, all snipers, all special operations troops, etc. If that's true, how would the vast majority of them be able to come home and lead normal productive lives?

You really don't have a clue what you're talking about, Tangerine.


Please don't alter my posts by bolding sentences I didn't bold and don't tell me what I mean. I clearly stated that which I meant. SEALs are not regular combat troops. They are covert assassins. The psychological attributes to be a covert assassin are quite different from that required to be a regular combat troop. For one thing, regular combat troops do not have an expectation of having to covertly watch their human target for hours or days and then sneak up on that person and slit his throat. Nor do regular combat troops have an expectation of having to do that to women, children, and old people although the situation might arise. SEALs sign up to do this stuff. Do you understand that? SEALs are not remotely "normal" people? "Normal" people can't get through their training nor do what they do after training. As for your comment about them coming home and leading normal lives, I don't know that that's true. You're trying to mix apples and oranges. I am talking specifically about SEALs.


Firstly, I did not bold any of your sentences. Those are my sentences addressing your previous post. Even the slightest bit of reading comprehension would have made that obvious.

Secondly, I'm going to go ahead and assume you've never met a SEAL or SF type in your life. If you have, you certainly haven't spent any time around that person. Everything you're saying smacks of ignorance and it seems like you've formed your opinion based on works of fiction.

SEALs are trained to sneak up and slit the throats of women, children, and old people? Are you serious? SEAls are not "covert assassins", they're highly-trained warriors who are trained to carry out combat operations, not assassinations.

I guarantee that I have more knowledge of the training that SEALs and SF types go through than you do and you're completely full of crap. You're speaking about a subject on which you're not qualified to comment and I suspect you're only doing it to get a rise out of others. There's a difference between opinions and lies. You're posting the latter.
edit on 1/23/2015 by Answer because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 08:56 PM
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a reply to: Answer




There's a difference between opinions and lies. You're posting the latter.


That's a bit severe. I think he is just ignorant of military training and the ROEs of war.



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 08:59 PM
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originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Answer




There's a difference between opinions and lies. You're posting the latter.


That's a bit severe. I think he is just ignorant of military training and the ROEs of war.



Negative. Tangerine makes posts with malicious intent, i.e. lying.

There's nothing innocent about what he/she is doing and it happens in other threads as well.
edit on 1/23/2015 by Answer because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 09:05 PM
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originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Answer




There's a difference between opinions and lies. You're posting the latter.


That's a bit severe. I think he is just ignorant of military training and the ROEs of war.



Negative. Tangerine makes posts with malicious intent, i.e. lying.

There's nothing innocent about what he/she is doing and it happens in other threads as well.


Well, you are free to say what you wish obviously, I was just speaking in the limited context of that previous post about S.E.A.L.s. Carry on.



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 09:19 PM
link   

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

Wonder WHAT else you are wrong about?www.researchgate.net...://www.fbo.gov/i ndex?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=3561a5b205fbea8e2d4efece30e7420b&tab=core&tabmode=list&=


I didnt say they didnt do psych screening or even extensive psych screening for snipers. I said they dont and wont look for sociopaths. They only way to truly determine one is to do a lab experiment with scientists and brain monitors. Thats not even full proof.
So I wonder what else YOU are mistaken about.

Chris Kyle without a doubt shows signs of sociopathy. Hell we can check his personality against the Hare checklist right here.


I agree with you about Kyle. That's a surprise to absolutely no one.
I strongly suspect that Navy SEAL candidates undergo extensive psychological testing that results in the creation of psychological profiles. Yep, same with Police Officer candidates. So? It's extremely expensive to train them and it's vital that they can be trusted to do that which they're ordered to do and remain silent about that which they've done. It's nearly impossible to tell how someone will react to combat but the psych evaluation is to make sure they will follow orders, not completely freak out at the drop of a hat, or kill indiscriminately without reason. Most of their training is secret and we would not be privy to such testing. I don't think there should be an assumption that sociopathy would be a disqualifier. In fact, it may be a qualifier. That assumption is laughable.


You seem to believe that in order for a warrior to kill, they must be a sociopath/psychopath with no apathy or remorse. You couldn't be more wrong. Normal people who are put into a defensive situation, either self-defense or defense of others, will generally do what is necessary.

For your opinion to be valid, all warriors throughout history with multiple kills would have to be sociopaths. This includes pilots of attack helicopters and fighter/bombers, UAV pilots, most ground troops, all snipers, all special operations troops, etc. If that's true, how would the vast majority of them be able to come home and lead normal productive lives?

You really don't have a clue what you're talking about, Tangerine.


Please don't alter my posts by bolding sentences I didn't bold and don't tell me what I mean. I clearly stated that which I meant. SEALs are not regular combat troops. They are covert assassins. The psychological attributes to be a covert assassin are quite different from that required to be a regular combat troop. For one thing, regular combat troops do not have an expectation of having to covertly watch their human target for hours or days and then sneak up on that person and slit his throat. Nor do regular combat troops have an expectation of having to do that to women, children, and old people although the situation might arise. SEALs sign up to do this stuff. Do you understand that? SEALs are not remotely "normal" people? "Normal" people can't get through their training nor do what they do after training. As for your comment about them coming home and leading normal lives, I don't know that that's true. You're trying to mix apples and oranges. I am talking specifically about SEALs.


Firstly, I did not bold any of your sentences. Those are my sentences addressing your previous post. Even the slightest bit of reading comprehension would have made that obvious.

Secondly, I'm going to go ahead and assume you've never met a SEAL or SF type in your life. If you have, you certainly haven't spent any time around that person. Everything you're saying smacks of ignorance and it seems like you've formed your opinion based on works of fiction.

SEALs are trained to sneak up and slit the throats of women, children, and old people? Are you serious? SEAls are not "covert assassins", they're highly-trained warriors who are trained to carry out combat operations, not assassinations.

I guarantee that I have more knowledge of the training that SEALs and SF types go through than you do and you're completely full of crap. You're speaking about a subject on which you're not qualified to comment and I suspect you're only doing it to get a rise out of others. There's a difference between opinions and lies. You're posting the latter.


My mistake. Those were not my sentences, they were yours. However, by interspersing your comments within my post it created the impression that I had said those things and you had bolded them for emphasis.

I have known a number of SEALs and have spent considerable time with them. I have also watched them complete Basic Underwater Demolition training (commonly known as BUDs). Among other things, SEALs absolutely are trained to be covert assassins. I guess you didn't hear about them taking out Bin Laden. They are also trained to do extractions, gather intelligence, etc.. SEALs are trained to do whatever they have to do to complete a mission and many of their missions are in violation of the so-called rules of war and military code of conduct. That's one of the reasons most of their missions remain secret after completion.

Apparently, you are unaware of the rather infamous case involving SEAL, and later Senator, Bob Kerrey and a raid on a small Vietnamese village. In order to get into the village unannounced, they "took out" an old man and a child in one of the outlying huts by slitting their throats to maintain silence. Suffice it to say that all the villagers except for one who escaped into the jungle ended up in pile in the middle of the village--civilians all.

If you think this sort of thing doesn't happen, you are not knowledgable about SEALs.

None of this is intended to suggest that SEALs are not necessary and often extraordinarily heroic. My intention is to dissuade you of naivete' about what they are trained to do and what they actually do.
edit on 23-1-2015 by Tangerine because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 09:23 PM
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a reply to: Answer

You have not discredited them. You habe just denied them you habent shown they are dalse. Im not trolling. I havse aourves and a book that hasnt been refuted. No lawsuits habe been filed saying they were lies. Lawsuits have been files that proves he lied.



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 09:27 PM
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a reply to: Answer

If he interviewed kyle.. then thats where he got the stories
If they were false there would be lawsuits. I think thats obvious. NO ONE BUT POSTERS HERE HAVE REFUTED THE CLAIMS FOR A REASON. THEY ARE TRUE.



posted on Jan, 23 2015 @ 09:29 PM
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a reply to: Answer

Oh and those are just the three instances I chose there are 4 or 5 other well known lies and disturbing quotes from kyle.




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